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Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2009-07-30 , 22:59
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#11
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
In this case, it's both. The feelgood speeches cannot deny that wholly. Fremantle will fix current issues in Diablo, require new hardware, allow the community to inherit some of it's architecture, while basically becoming a deadend itself shortly thereafter.
Which is why the effort - and results - of Nokia and the Mer team are to be lauded in providing a continued mechanism for supporting out-of-date hardware in a commercially realistic way.

Besides, we don't yet know if Harmattan is going to be targetted at RX-51 style hardware; which I guess will depend on the timescales.
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silvermountain is offline silvermountain
2009-07-30 , 23:10
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#12
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
1:52:58! Any pointer (even if approximate) for the Maemo part?
The N810 and Fremantle/Maemo discussion starts at 24:15 on the video version (see link above).

The Ars Technica article they are referring to (and said is not 100% accurate) is at: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/n...o-platform.ars

(wish I had seen that before posting here as it does, along with the great answers here, address my question really well).

Edit: This episode of the show also discusses Google's Chrome OS and if by introducing that Google is 'admitting' that Android was a failure - or if it is as simple as Mobile=Android and Netbook=Chrome.

Thanks!
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Stskeeps is offline Stskeeps
2009-07-30 , 23:13
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#13
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
In this case, it's both. The feelgood speeches cannot deny that wholly. Fremantle will fix current issues in Diablo, require new hardware, allow the community to inherit some of it's architecture, while basically becoming a deadend itself shortly thereafter.
I agree with you on the risk of parts of it becoming a deadend shortly thereafter. Which is one of the reasons Mer is actually 'MaEmo Reconstructed", and not "Fremantle backport to N8x0". While a backport may have been easier, such a backport would be unsustainable and would become a deadend shortly after as more developers move on to newer devices. So, we decided to take the difficult road - which does take longer time but will be more interesting over time.
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YoDude is offline YoDude
2009-07-30 , 23:16
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#14
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
A single use (once per device) OS...

... The feelgood speeches cannot deny that wholly. Fremantle will fix current issues in Diablo, require new hardware, allow the community to inherit some of it's architecture, while basically becoming a deadend itself shortly thereafter.
Cool! Just like Microsoft only 5 years later.

Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition

So is it worth the upgrade? If you desire any of these functionalities, Windows Mobile 2003 SE is definitely worth a look, but just because you want it doesn't mean you'll be able to get it...
***

So... for a non-developer, plain ol' consumer, real world user of an existing Nokia iT... purchasing the presumably much more expensive Freemantle device is not a very good upgrade strategy.

BTW, what is a good upgrade strategy for an existing NIT user?
 

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silvermountain is offline silvermountain
2009-07-30 , 23:20
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#15
Originally Posted by Stskeeps View Post
I agree with you on the risk of parts of it becoming a deadend shortly thereafter. Which is one of the reasons Mer is actually 'MaEmo Reconstructed", and not "Fremantle backport to N8x0". While a backport may have been easier, such a backport would be unsustainable and would become a deadend shortly after as more developers move on to newer devices. So, we decided to take the difficult road - which does take longer time but will be more interesting over time.
That does make a whole lot of sense. Thanks.
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silvermountain is offline silvermountain
2009-07-30 , 23:31
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#16
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
A single use (once per device) OS with the majority of it's UI/presentational layer being replaced and those prior parts being deprecated almost as fast as it comes out spells out (to me) that Fremantle will be as stillborn as Diablo.

The kind ways of stating "no, it'll be continued to be supported by the community" yields no comfort from a future purchase because thrice over people have been limited to a Nokia device that has no clear method to upgrade to the next version using their re-appropriated machine due to either hardware or software limitations.
That way of viewing things is rather interesting to me as I am one of those people that are considering getting an N900 when it comes out and if it is well received. One of the things I do love about Linux and Maemo in particular as that is the only distro I've been exposed to - is the community support and involvement.

If the N900 would come with a presentational layer that is in lack of better words dead-ended in that it will not continue onto other h/w devices I must admit that I, as a novice, would feel that I would be buying into a device that will soon lack support and s/w updates as focus moves on.

Even a community as active as this can't possibly juggle updates and ports between, what, five?, OS versions (Diablo/Chinook/Mer/Fremantle/Harmattan).

I guess some would phase out - but aren't people still using Chinook and maybe there will still be users clinging on to Diablo after Mer comes out. It still feels like efforts would/could be spread very thin.

I know that my views are simplistic but I also think that I may represent a part of the potential customer base for the N900 and I'm curious as to how Nokia is/will be addressing such concerns).
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2009-07-30 , 23:43
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#17
Originally Posted by Stskeeps View Post
I agree with you on the risk of parts of it becoming a deadend shortly thereafter. Which is one of the reasons Mer is actually 'MaEmo Reconstructed", and not "Fremantle backport to N8x0". While a backport may have been easier, such a backport would be unsustainable and would become a deadend shortly after as more developers move on to newer devices. So, we decided to take the difficult road - which does take longer time but will be more interesting over time.
And I'll state this until I'm blue in the face. Your (the Mer team) efforts are nothing short of amazing, made possible by Nokia getting the right stuff to you all... and I thank you for that.

Trust me. Without the community and the Mer Team; I don't know what I'd do other than fully lose faith. I'm waiting... and that's fine. And where I can help - which again isn't much - I will.

Thank you.
 

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qgil is offline qgil
2009-07-30 , 23:54
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#18
Originally Posted by YoDude View Post
So... for a non-developer, plain ol' consumer, real world user of an existing Nokia iT... purchasing the presumably much more expensive Freemantle device is not a very good upgrade strategy.
Plain ol' consumers, real world users will start thinking their purchasing strategy when they see a new device announced with a price tag attached. Discussing Harmattan with Diablo in your hands is just too abstract for end users.

This was an announcement done to platform developers primarily, also to application developers. The basic conclusions a user could get is that Nokia has a mid term strategy for Maemo that is based on certain technologies that would make it easier to have applications available also in Symbian and other mobile platforms. If such users are concerned about open source, the announcement gives them an idea that Maemo will keep being an open platform with open devices welcoming all kinds of toolkits, bindings, languages and alternative platforms.
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gerbick
2009-07-30 , 23:55
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#19
Originally Posted by silvermountain View Post
I know that my views are simplistic but I also think that I may represent a part of the potential customer base for the N900 and I'm curious as to how Nokia is/will be addressing such concerns).
And my views are seen as largely unpopular. No worries about how you view things... I'm just quite sure that Nokia will not address anything further than they have in the past.

Fixed in <enter name of upcoming build>

At least Mer gives me a bit of hope.
 
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deadmalc is offline deadmalc
2009-07-31 , 06:52
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#20
Surely Fremantle will be as DOA as diablo is now.
Isn't the whole purpose of each release to essentially EOL the previous one, and build on it's successes?

Personally I'd like to see a tablet orientated kde4, which I am hoping this is essentially what Harmatten will be. (from a user point of view not a developer)
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