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2007-09-10
, 00:34
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#202
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Holy cow what a disingenuous load. Ironic too. Oh, except for the "The iPod Touch is a totally different sector" part. Nice work on that one.
WRONG. You said something about how you had to look at the Apple iPod Touch in order to use it.
Are you honestly saying that you don't have to look at an internet tablet!?
Your statement about that was moot. You have to look at both of them. It's that simple. I don't see why you can't grasp that.
Bringing up random points about things that are actually similar in the both of them is quite a stupid endeavor. I don't care who you know, what you know... read what I'm saying in the simple English I'm using above.
You touch the touchscreen on the iPod Touch. You use a stylus or you touch the touchscreen on the Nokia internet tablet.
At the base of that comparison, it's the very same darn thing. I triple dog dare you to say otherwise. Nokia's claim in this whole thread has been the screen... which is also a touch screen.
That's what you said. If you want wheels, buttons and other hardware doodads, then even the Nokia internet tablet is wrong for you. It has a touch screen... right?
And since you seem to think that you've stated the same thing over and over, here's the problem.
I have a Nokia 770. It's my second one. I'm happy with it.
Nokia could have had a better product out by now instead of having it compared foolishly to the Apple iPod Touch. A properly placed product would not have to endure stupid comparisons as such. I didn't see UMPC comparisons to the iPod Touch... do you?
No. Because the UMPC is an understood product. Nokia released this out into the world and the hackers, early adopters, and other esoteric and notoriously closed groups that don't communicate to the rest of the non-technical world all too well, as the group(s) that would explain what the Nokia internet tablet truly was.
And the communication department/definition of what an internet tablet is quite honestly a failure. I'd say that it's almost relegated to early adopter Linux scoffery in most cases - if you remember that. Simply put, either you know what it is... or you don't. And that's just very sad for the Nokia products. They're wonderful to me. The iPod Touch is a totally different sector.
Again, it's all laid out in plain English. Don't twist my words for some other agenda.
I've never suggested that. I just hope that Nokia makes up for the wasted time between the Nokia N800 and the iPod Touch. They could have properly defined a segment and they didn't. People want a PDA, or they want a iPod with wifi/bluetooth, or they seem to want a Linux handheld that's so entirely hackable that they can make it into a laptop replacement... and it could have been more definite than it is right now.
That's my take, flame/destroy/misunderstand as you wish. Simple English was utilized. Promise
Again, I believe I've explained my arguments well enough up to this point, and they're readily available in this and 1 or 2 other threads. I'm not gonna further waste my time or yours dancing with any axles. You are entitled to your assessment just as I am entitled to mine. I don't feel any overwhelming desire to disabuse anyone of their notions, however misguided or context-ignorant they may be... I was simply trying to introduce balance to a ridiculously lopsided "debate". If I failed, oh well. It's just the Internet.
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2007-09-10
, 00:46
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#203
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Disingenuous? You're either delusional or regard yourself too highly.
I'll be simple. I said it in the beginning, I've repeated it, and I'm doing it one last time here.
iPod Touch != Nokia 770/N800
It's that simple. I'm not even arguing with you. However you pulled out the whole "touchscreens have to be looked at" and that's quite possibly the most inane thing I've ever read.
Touchscreens have to be looked at to be used. Seriously... who didn't know that?
There's no need for balance in a non-debate to begin with. But your point about the touchscreens was about as moot as saying that a phone makes phone calls.
I'll be simple. I said it in the beginning, I've repeated it, and I'm doing it one last time here.
iPod Touch != Nokia 770/N800
It's that simple. I'm not even arguing with you. However you pulled out the whole "touchscreens have to be looked at" and that's quite possibly the most inane thing I've ever read.
Touchscreens have to be looked at to be used. Seriously... who didn't know that?
There's no need for balance in a non-debate to begin with. But your point about the touchscreens was about as moot as saying that a phone makes phone calls.
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2007-09-10
, 00:57
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#204
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The discussion here has been larger than your contributions, gerbick, and mine. I have been taking that into consideration.
As for the "touchscreens have to be looked at to be used", such an obvious yet simultaneously inane statement completely ignores the context of my related comments. I just don't see any sense in continuing to explain that given your stubborn resistance to considering someone else's viewpoint. You can call that chickening out if it boosts your ego.
Speaking of which, if you're simply looking for a win in an important internet argument, then here it is: you win. Ain't I sweet?
As for the "touchscreens have to be looked at to be used", such an obvious yet simultaneously inane statement completely ignores the context of my related comments. I just don't see any sense in continuing to explain that given your stubborn resistance to considering someone else's viewpoint. You can call that chickening out if it boosts your ego.
Speaking of which, if you're simply looking for a win in an important internet argument, then here it is: you win. Ain't I sweet?
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2007-09-10
, 01:08
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#205
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Yay. I won the Special Olympics.
Shrugs. Oh well. Per usual, scoffery wins and my patience loses. Stating the obvious is a waste of time. Real life or online. Continue with the display of massive misunderstanding.
Shrugs. Oh well. Per usual, scoffery wins and my patience loses. Stating the obvious is a waste of time. Real life or online. Continue with the display of massive misunderstanding.
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2007-09-10
, 01:09
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#206
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There's just no gratitude any more.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2007-09-10
, 01:20
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#207
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And hopefully a non-debate ends.
Back to my whole original point. The two are in separate sectors.
With that said... let's wait and see.
Back to my whole original point. The two are in separate sectors.
Originally Posted by gerbick
As it stands, perhaps this will push the N800 successor to be something more commercial and widely accepted....but it seems like the pending commercial success of the iPod Touch - a different machine with a different purpose than the Nokia 770/N800 - but it seems like it could be a sales hit that the Nokia team would love to have.
With that said... let's wait and see.
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2007-09-10
, 01:34
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Posts: 729 |
Thanked: 19 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#208
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Odd....I can adjust the volume and pause music on my N800 without having to look at it.
Can that be done on the iPhone/Touch?
I can even stop, start, pause, jump tracks, and answer phone calls on my N95 while it sits in my pocket all using my MotorolaS9 A2DP headset too.
Of course, neither the iPhone or the new Touch iPod can currently do that. Probably in a month or two there will be yet another new-and-improved-stereo-bluetooth-ipod-dongle for folks to dish out an additional $50+ for in order to even get the current functionality of either my N95 or N800. Granted, A2DP on the N800 requires some "hacking" but once setup it's easy to use and works well. I expect Nokia to HOPEFULLY get A2DP rolled into the next N800 firmware [this is your first and last hint on this from me, Nokia, get a damn clue already].
Can that be done on the iPhone/Touch?
I can even stop, start, pause, jump tracks, and answer phone calls on my N95 while it sits in my pocket all using my MotorolaS9 A2DP headset too.
Of course, neither the iPhone or the new Touch iPod can currently do that. Probably in a month or two there will be yet another new-and-improved-stereo-bluetooth-ipod-dongle for folks to dish out an additional $50+ for in order to even get the current functionality of either my N95 or N800. Granted, A2DP on the N800 requires some "hacking" but once setup it's easy to use and works well. I expect Nokia to HOPEFULLY get A2DP rolled into the next N800 firmware [this is your first and last hint on this from me, Nokia, get a damn clue already].
__________________
Kicking Nokia in the jimmy, one marketing exec at a time.
Kicking Nokia in the jimmy, one marketing exec at a time.
Originally Posted by Mr. T
Well maybe Mr. T hacked the game, and made a mowhawk class? And maybe Mr. T is pretty handy with computers? Had that occurred to you Mr. Condescending Director?
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2007-09-10
, 01:59
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#209
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Originally Posted by iball
This is what I said earlier...
Odd....I can adjust the volume and pause music on my N800 without having to look at it.
Originally Posted by gerbick
You have to look at your Internet Tablet in order to use it too. Only volume and full-screen and navigation (something you have to notice while looking at it) work well... and only one of them is something you can do without looking at it on the Nokia IT's.
Can that be done on the iPhone/Touch?
I can even stop, start, pause, jump tracks, and answer phone calls on my N95 while it sits in my pocket all using my MotorolaS9 A2DP headset too.
Of course, neither the iPhone or the new Touch iPod can currently do that. Probably in a month or two there will be yet another...
Throwing more into the arena solves nothing.
I expect Nokia to HOPEFULLY get A2DP rolled into the next N800 firmware [this is your first and last hint on this from me, Nokia, get a damn clue already].
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2007-09-10
, 02:09
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#210
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The NIT are fine hardware. They're kick *** for linux savvy userse and linux hackers.
But without the commercial success (that many people here associate and compare with Apple products), there doesn't seem to be enough steam (incentives, motivation) in the NIT ecosystem.
The growth happens in sporadic fashion (distributed with minimum orchestration) as per the norm in the opensource developments. There are hints of greatness all over, but they take awhile to be rolled up into the official firmware if they will make it at all.
Let's do a simple exercise to roughly gauge the 'commercial success\acceptance' of NIT. Imagine 100 potential customers that represent the target market. Soccer moms, business suits, regular joes, students, etc.
Distribute N800 sets to them, one per person.
1. How many will get additional programs installed? (navigate to maemo.org and download, quite easy.)
2. How many will manage to find the best of breed programs installed? (do point #1 over and over to compare apps, or delve down to internet forums to join the confusion of distributed documentation).
3. How many do you think will get to run Skype on their unit? (flash their firmware).
How many of the 100 user will see NIT as the same device (developed to its potential) as most people on this forum see it as?
The way I see it, the NITs are awesome devices with almost limitless possibilities. But if they're not accessible to the user, it's useless to them.
(Yes, yes, they're not useless to you and me.)
But without the commercial success (that many people here associate and compare with Apple products), there doesn't seem to be enough steam (incentives, motivation) in the NIT ecosystem.
The growth happens in sporadic fashion (distributed with minimum orchestration) as per the norm in the opensource developments. There are hints of greatness all over, but they take awhile to be rolled up into the official firmware if they will make it at all.
Let's do a simple exercise to roughly gauge the 'commercial success\acceptance' of NIT. Imagine 100 potential customers that represent the target market. Soccer moms, business suits, regular joes, students, etc.
Distribute N800 sets to them, one per person.
1. How many will get additional programs installed? (navigate to maemo.org and download, quite easy.)
2. How many will manage to find the best of breed programs installed? (do point #1 over and over to compare apps, or delve down to internet forums to join the confusion of distributed documentation).
3. How many do you think will get to run Skype on their unit? (flash their firmware).
How many of the 100 user will see NIT as the same device (developed to its potential) as most people on this forum see it as?
The way I see it, the NITs are awesome devices with almost limitless possibilities. But if they're not accessible to the user, it's useless to them.
(Yes, yes, they're not useless to you and me.)
Are you honestly saying that you don't have to look at an internet tablet!?
Your statement about that was moot. You have to look at both of them. It's that simple. I don't see why you can't grasp that.
Bringing up random points about things that are actually similar in the both of them is quite a stupid endeavor. I don't care who you know, what you know... read what I'm saying in the simple English I'm using above.
You touch the touchscreen on the iPod Touch. You use a stylus or you touch the touchscreen on the Nokia internet tablet.
At the base of that comparison, it's the very same darn thing. I triple dog dare you to say otherwise. Nokia's claim in this whole thread has been the screen... which is also a touch screen.
And since you seem to think that you've stated the same thing over and over, here's the problem.
I have a Nokia 770. It's my second one. I'm happy with it.
Nokia could have had a better product out by now instead of having it compared foolishly to the Apple iPod Touch. A properly placed product would not have to endure stupid comparisons as such. I didn't see UMPC comparisons to the iPod Touch... do you?
No. Because the UMPC is an understood product. Nokia released this out into the world and the hackers, early adopters, and other esoteric and notoriously closed groups that don't communicate to the rest of the non-technical world all too well, as the group(s) that would explain what the Nokia internet tablet truly was.
And the communication department/definition of what an internet tablet is quite honestly a failure. I'd say that it's almost relegated to early adopter Linux scoffery in most cases - if you remember that. Simply put, either you know what it is... or you don't. And that's just very sad for the Nokia products. They're wonderful to me. The iPod Touch is a totally different sector.
Again, it's all laid out in plain English. Don't twist my words for some other agenda.
That's my take, flame/destroy/misunderstand as you wish. Simple English was utilized. Promise
Last edited by gerbick; 2007-09-09 at 23:34.