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2010-10-12
, 13:33
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Posts: 17 |
Thanked: 10 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ Dunedin
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#232
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I got Vista on a new computer. Didn't want it. Called MS and got a downgrade license to XP. No piracy involved. So, sorry, but the "I pirated it because I didn't want the newer OS" is rubbish.
My rule of thumb with *all* software is, if I have a new system, and it gets installed / used within 2 weeks, I pay for it.
My rule of thumb with *all* software is, if I have a new system, and it gets installed / used within 2 weeks, I pay for it.
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2010-10-12
, 15:56
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#233
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Originally Posted by neurok
You will learn that people put prices for different things in life; They produce or serve something; and they offer it for a price and it's up to you to engage them in a transaction to acquire said goods/services at the price that they want or not.
"Don't tell me it's of no value to you. Why would you even bother downloading AND watching it, if you don't care about it."
Just because you watch something doesnt mean you care for it witch is why i said if i like it il buy it ive downloaded plently of movies just recently watched (machete) would i buy it? No didnt like it. Am i glad i watched it without spending a dime yes . why? because to me it sucked . Ever buy a cd and only 2 songs are good? It doesnt feel good feels like a waste of 10 bucks .Making digital copies of something is not stealing taking the physical object from a store is . If the technology exsisted i would make a clone of my 60" tv and wouldnt spend a dime on another tv.Im sure this has been said but libraries,second hand stores,garage sells,block buster, music shops, any one who sells second hand is guilty of piracy they all paid for the copy of the original product but they do not submit further payment to the actors or studio . also our system is broken its ridiculous to think that you bought a movie but its not really yours you actually just bought liscence to view, it but god forbid you make a digital copy of what you bought that would be wrong.
If you can breach their 'security' to work around and acquire the item/services, then that's one thing. It may even not be covered by the (slowly catching up) legalities, so you're not doing it illegally.
Failure to undersand the basic premise of "It's someone else's work that they want to charge a fee for" and the lack of self control/dignity to acknowledge that "I think that sh*t is unreasonably priced/licensed so I don't want anything to do with it anyway.", then I will have to say that you're justifying some type of misbehaviors.
__________________
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Follow the MeeGo Coding Competition!
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2010-10-12
, 23:33
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Posts: 1,994 |
Thanked: 3,342 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ N900: Battery low. N950: torx 4 re-used once and fine; SIM port torn apart
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#234
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Originally Posted by hazmat
Well... You were lucky and/or patient to find this way.
I got Vista on a new computer. Didn't want it. Called MS and got a downgrade license to XP. No piracy involved. So, sorry, but the "I pirated it because I didn't want the newer OS" is rubbish.
By the way, has the telephone call cost you anything?
How long have you waited to get XP running on the computer?
And, imagine there was another issue: you get Vista in a language you hardly know, and the seller doesn't have an English version of Windows. Is it possible to downgrade from Vista in Chinese (for instance) to XP in English?
There are restrictions: you can downgrade from "Vista Professional" to XP, but not from "Vista Home".
Googling found it:
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/lice...de_rights.aspx
> Only certain OEM versions of Windows Vista include downgrade rights.
> Windows Vista Business and Windows Vista Ultimate include downgrade rights to:
> Windows XP Professional, or
> Windows XP Tablet PC Edition, or
> Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
> Other OEM Windows Vista versions (for instance, Windows Vista Home Basic and Windows Vista Home Premium) do not include downgrade rights.
Could you describe exact steps for downgrade license, please? Maybe, a reader would dig the Vista CD out of thick layer of dust and get this XP license and use non-pirated Windows XP.
But, most likely, if the user hasn't already downgraded, he cannot. He was given "Windows Vista Home", for instance. What a lock!
Anyway, pirating in this case isn't harmful to Windows; it's more stressful to the user who has to fend off the Windows Genuine Advantage.
Originally Posted by hazmat
I repeat: in the case "I pirated it because I didn't want the newer OS" the user has already paid to Microsoft more than he should. You cannot say that the user hasn't paid for the software he uses.
My rule of thumb with *all* software is, if I have a new system, and it gets installed / used within 2 weeks, I pay for it.
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2010-10-16
, 10:52
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Posts: 2,050 |
Thanked: 1,425 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Bucharest
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#235
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Agreed, no sane company will pursue a license issue for a downgrade. I had this issue with several companies and their responses varied from "ok" to "not OK by EULA, but we won't say anything, go ahead".
__________________
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
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2010-10-16
, 16:19
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Guest |
Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#236
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After all of this time... we're still talking about an original poster that's contemplated buying multiple Nokia N900's but cannot support their own education? Priorities are really ****ed up if that's the case.
And to make matters worse... same person can afford university, can afford multiple gadgets, can afford a computer, can afford internet access... but can't afford or find alternate means to obtain software to support aforesaid life decisions to further their education and/or curiosity?
Again... priorities are really ****ed up if that is the case.
So let's use the age-old car analogy... that's like buying a great car, getting your license, attending driving school... and not knowing how you will pay for the gas and insurance...
And to make matters worse... same person can afford university, can afford multiple gadgets, can afford a computer, can afford internet access... but can't afford or find alternate means to obtain software to support aforesaid life decisions to further their education and/or curiosity?
Again... priorities are really ****ed up if that is the case.
So let's use the age-old car analogy... that's like buying a great car, getting your license, attending driving school... and not knowing how you will pay for the gas and insurance...
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2010-10-17
, 02:47
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Posts: 1,994 |
Thanked: 3,342 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ N900: Battery low. N950: torx 4 re-used once and fine; SIM port torn apart
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#237
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Originally Posted by gerbick
To further education/curiosity, use Linux.
After all of this time... we're still talking about an original poster that's contemplated buying multiple Nokia N900's but cannot support their own education? Priorities are really ****ed up if that's the case.
And to make matters worse... same person can afford university, can afford multiple gadgets, can afford a computer, can afford internet access... but can't afford or find alternate means to obtain software to support aforesaid life decisions to further their education and/or curiosity?
Again... priorities are really ****ed up if that is the case.
Internet access is probably given by the university.
Many students look to get 'student grants'/scholarships in order to cover the cost of university.
N900 probably doubles as the main computer.
I know somebody can consider it an overkill, but ideally, every program on a computer should be open-source. It's hard; there is some good free-ware and some necessary, due to habit, buyware.
The number one reason for still buying/pirating proprietary software:
user cannot find adequate/compatible open-source replacement.
OpenOffice.org cannot open .docx files properly;
open-source full-featured PDF editor can hardly be found (PDFedit?);
open-source formula editing/graph drawing/equation solving, especially cross-platform and MATLAB compatible, is needed (GNU Octave seems to be the best);
etc.
I wouldn't blame a student for not paying for some program; I would blame the university for requiring the program and not giving it to the student at the same time.
Originally Posted by gerbick
It's like getting an Aptera vehicle: no gas, just electricity, classified as motorcycle, probably no insurance required, the vehicle is built with safety in mind.
So let's use the age-old car analogy... that's like buying a great car, getting your license, attending driving school... and not knowing how you will pay for the gas and insurance...
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Keep in mind: this post contains subjective opinion and might contain incorrect assumptions.
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2010-10-17
, 04:13
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Posts: 842 |
Thanked: 1,197 times |
Joined on May 2010
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#238
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I'm here agreeing with most others - While in the past it may have been different, these days I see almost no need to pirate software, especially as a student. However, my definition of pirate isn't always the same as the company's definition.
Now, expanding on my first point, as a student, what do you need?
You generally need an office suite - OO generally does the trick. Sure, it may not support .docx properly, but in two + years of college, I've never had someone give me a .docx file. Generally - if it wasn't given to me hard-copy - it was a .doc file, and generally a "compatibility mode" one at that, and OO reads and writes them well enough that I never had trouble.
Now, while I like the Linux OS, and would love to get everyone running a Linux-based system, if you need certain specialized programs, Wine just won't cut it.
I'm talking mainly about recent Autodesk products.
If you end up needing windows though - these days - you can get a full W7 home(I think) license for $10-20 through your school! That's so cheap, its not worth the hassle of pirating it, and at that price, you really shouldn't.
Autodesk products are another common requirement, but as a college student, you can get trials/full versions of everything they offer, for free! All you need is a .edu email address, which most if not all colleges will provide for free.
Photoshop's another big issue - I'm not sure if you can get a free version of that, but, well... You can always use GIMP. And if you need some feature you can't use GIMP for, you can always use the school-provided computer lab.
There are a number of other programs that fit these criteria, but I'm not going to go into them all.
On to my second point: The "grey area".
Lets take this example: You own a fully-licenced copy of Windows XP. You go to reinstall, and it goes "Oh, you can't do that. You've activated it one too many times". Now, if you go and get a licence-crack, I see absolutely no problem with this. Microsoft may, but I don't.
Same thing with any software - If you have a licence, but need a "crack" of some sort to get it working, by all means, go ahead.
I also see no problem in downloading a replacement disk image to replace a scratched or broken piece of install media - You bought the license in the first place.
On the other hand, pirating a game(and other software in the same vein) is right out... Unless its something that's not being currently sold, and used copies aren't available(abandonware, for instance). I fully agree with providing the creator his fee, but if something's not being sold, he won't get his fee anyway.
So, while my views may not exactly match up with what IP laws are - especially in certain countries - those are my views, and I stand by them.
Now, expanding on my first point, as a student, what do you need?
You generally need an office suite - OO generally does the trick. Sure, it may not support .docx properly, but in two + years of college, I've never had someone give me a .docx file. Generally - if it wasn't given to me hard-copy - it was a .doc file, and generally a "compatibility mode" one at that, and OO reads and writes them well enough that I never had trouble.
Now, while I like the Linux OS, and would love to get everyone running a Linux-based system, if you need certain specialized programs, Wine just won't cut it.
I'm talking mainly about recent Autodesk products.
If you end up needing windows though - these days - you can get a full W7 home(I think) license for $10-20 through your school! That's so cheap, its not worth the hassle of pirating it, and at that price, you really shouldn't.
Autodesk products are another common requirement, but as a college student, you can get trials/full versions of everything they offer, for free! All you need is a .edu email address, which most if not all colleges will provide for free.
Photoshop's another big issue - I'm not sure if you can get a free version of that, but, well... You can always use GIMP. And if you need some feature you can't use GIMP for, you can always use the school-provided computer lab.
There are a number of other programs that fit these criteria, but I'm not going to go into them all.
On to my second point: The "grey area".
Lets take this example: You own a fully-licenced copy of Windows XP. You go to reinstall, and it goes "Oh, you can't do that. You've activated it one too many times". Now, if you go and get a licence-crack, I see absolutely no problem with this. Microsoft may, but I don't.
Same thing with any software - If you have a licence, but need a "crack" of some sort to get it working, by all means, go ahead.
I also see no problem in downloading a replacement disk image to replace a scratched or broken piece of install media - You bought the license in the first place.
On the other hand, pirating a game(and other software in the same vein) is right out... Unless its something that's not being currently sold, and used copies aren't available(abandonware, for instance). I fully agree with providing the creator his fee, but if something's not being sold, he won't get his fee anyway.
So, while my views may not exactly match up with what IP laws are - especially in certain countries - those are my views, and I stand by them.
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2010-10-17
, 11:01
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Posts: 2,050 |
Thanked: 1,425 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Bucharest
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#239
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Originally Posted by RobbieThe1st
Odd, I've always found OO to be lacking, heavy on resources for no reason, and poor in compatibility. Sure it "reads" the file, but it always kills formatting in all but its most basic forms. All embedded graphics are realigned, and tables have missing or different features if anythig advanced is used and while content matters when you present a poem, formatting is paramount when presenting a high level paper, such as diploma or doctorate paper.
it was a .doc file, and generally a "compatibility mode" one at that, and OO reads and writes them well enough that I never had trouble.
I had to buy a printer to make it look right, because the printing services I wanted had only OO. I ended up sending them a PNG for the cover and laser print myself.
Therer's a reason they keep charging hundreds while a free alternative exists. As a Linux user, this may sound strange to you, but "works" is not enough.
I had one of the two 10s, or A's or whatever your system is when I presented my license paper (exam is county wide and covers 2 generations) and I guarantee that changing even the shade of a heading will ruin the carefully balanced and professional look of a paper.
So no, just because you never found OO to have any issues doesn't mean it's sufficient, even if you are a student.
This isn't personal, it's just that I've heard this all too often, usually in a superior voice. Why pay for Photoshop, GIMP is free. GIMP Is Not Photoshop. Thay should call it GINP.
Hmm. Reading back the post, I seem quite upset, sorry for the tone. It's still a valid point, though.
__________________
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
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2010-10-18
, 03:51
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Posts: 1,994 |
Thanked: 3,342 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ N900: Battery low. N950: torx 4 re-used once and fine; SIM port torn apart
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#240
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Originally Posted by ndi
If you want to be sure that the document preserves colors, shapes, alignments - use either .pdf or .html. Period.
Odd, I've always found OO to be lacking, heavy on resources for no reason, and poor in compatibility. Sure it "reads" the file, but it always kills formatting in all but its most basic forms. All embedded graphics are realigned, and tables have missing or different features if anythig advanced is used and while content matters when you present a poem, formatting is paramount when presenting a high level paper, such as diploma or doctorate paper.
I had to buy a printer to make it look right, because the printing services I wanted had only OO. I ended up sending them a PNG for the cover and laser print myself.
Therer's a reason they keep charging hundreds while a free alternative exists. As a Linux user, this may sound strange to you, but "works" is not enough.
I had one of the two 10s, or A's or whatever your system is when I presented my license paper (exam is county wide and covers 2 generations) and I guarantee that changing even the shade of a heading will ruin the carefully balanced and professional look of a paper.
So no, just because you never found OO to have any issues doesn't mean it's sufficient, even if you are a student.
With .doc, only the program-creator knows what it meant - and even this program can damage the document and destroy it.
With .html, you can edit the document in Notepad, vi, nano, emacs, anything, and you see clearly what is going on.
With .pdf, nobody can edit it (except, maybe, Adobe Acrobat or PDFedit) - it's make once and never edit, best format for printing.
Originally Posted by ndi
I have not seen Photoshop for years. Not even a glimpse of it. I don't know a single human who has Photoshop installed. At the same time, most people around use Windows, and GIMP for advanced image editing. I know it's next to impossible to separate object from background in GIMP - but it doesn't have artificial intelligence.
This isn't personal, it's just that I've heard this all too often, usually in a superior voice. Why pay for Photoshop, GIMP is free. GIMP Is Not Photoshop. Thay should call it GINP.
GINP is a good suggestion. See:
GINP -> GIMP Is Not Photoshop.
GIMP -> GNU Image Manipulation Program.
GNU -> GNU Not Unix.
Originally Posted by ndi
Yes, it is a valid point, that Windows is the prevalent operating system, despite all its shortcomings. Windows users want everything to be done and polished; Linux users need to set up everything by hand, and simply using Linux is an incentive for the user to become a developer. Linux user isn't expected to get programs running right after installing them.
Hmm. Reading back the post, I seem quite upset, sorry for the tone. It's still a valid point, though.
GIMP and OpenOffice.org both show such large number of buttons and functions, that it's difficult to find the needed one.
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This post is subjective.
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Just because you watch something doesnt mean you care for it witch is why i said if i like it il buy it ive downloaded plently of movies just recently watched (machete) would i buy it? No didnt like it. Am i glad i watched it without spending a dime yes . why? because to me it sucked . Ever buy a cd and only 2 songs are good? It doesnt feel good feels like a waste of 10 bucks .Making digital copies of something is not stealing taking the physical object from a store is . If the technology exsisted i would make a clone of my 60" tv and wouldnt spend a dime on another tv.Im sure this has been said but libraries,second hand stores,garage sells,block buster, music shops, any one who sells second hand is guilty of piracy they all paid for the copy of the original product but they do not submit further payment to the actors or studio . also our system is broken its ridiculous to think that you bought a movie but its not really yours you actually just bought liscence to view, it but god forbid you make a digital copy of what you bought that would be wrong.