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Rushmore is offline Rushmore
2009-10-27 , 20:03
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#21
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
Sorry for asking dumb questions, but which function/functions are you now referring to?
Basic point:

Nokia is assuming that most people think the N900 is a computer first and phone last (as they intend I guess).

Based on many forums and even people I know who are wanting the device, they are assuming it is a phone first, and a computer last, with internet and media in the middle.

If my perspective is even a third of correct, this will mean a lot of unhappy N900 owners. Seems to make more sense to have the phone functions out of the box than "later" and avoid the unintended perceptions.
 

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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2009-10-27 , 20:05
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#22
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
Just because some solution works for you in S60 doesn't mean that there wouldn't be better solutions available, and that some other users wouldn't have problems with that solution. It isn't black and white. It shouldn't be also black and white in the direction that missing tabs would be a bad thing.
Why not put filters in the application menu, then? This is a feature used extensively throughout the rest of Maemo.

I just wish the Maemo UI team wasn't so vehement about sticking to their guns behind bad UI decisions (not necessarily this one).

Broken process. Broken process. Broken process.
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ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-10-27 , 20:06
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#23
Originally Posted by Rushmore View Post
Basic point:

Nokia is assuming that most people think the N900 is a computer first and phone last (as they intend I guess).

Based on many forums and even people I know who are wanting the device, they are assuming it is a phone first, and a computer last, with internet and media in the middle.

If my perspective is even a third of correct, this will mean a lot of unhappy N900 owners. Seems to make more sense to have the phone functions out of the box than "later" and avoid the unintended perceptions.
...

Phone features are there out of the box. Which specific feature are you now referring to? Can your phone do Skype calling?
 
ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-10-27 , 20:07
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#24
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Why not put filters in the application menu, then? This is a feature used extensively throughout the rest of Maemo.

I just wish the Maemo UI team wasn't so vehement about sticking to their guns behind bad UI decisions (not necessarily this one).

Broken process. Broken process. Broken process.
Because filters in the application menu wouldn't make sense. They would make the menu more complicated.

Point out bad UI decisions, and let's talk about them. But please don't generalize.
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-10-27 , 20:17
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#25
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
Just because some solution works for you in S60 doesn't mean that there wouldn't be better solutions available, and that some other users wouldn't have problems with that solution. It isn't black and white. It shouldn't be also black and white in the direction that missing tabs would be a bad thing.
Here we go back to that "we're taking something away and that's something everyone should just accept."



Come on, ragnar, you know very well the reasoning doesn't work both ways. Logical fallacy.

By the way that S60 solution is working for more users than just me. I don't see how simply removing capability creates a "better solution". Replace it with more useful functionality, then I'll agree.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2009-10-27 at 20:20.
 

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RevdKathy is offline RevdKathy
2009-10-27 , 20:17
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#26
The Sony Ericsson UI has tabs for call log: the 'default' tab is all calls, after which you can choose to filter by recieved, made or missed calls. What's so hard about that?
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mikec is offline mikec
2009-10-27 , 20:23
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#27
Nokia are caught between a Rock and a Hard place.

Symbian is criticized for its ease of use. Yet there are gazillions of Symbian users who know how to find their way around a Symbian device, and quite quickly I suspect. So now Nokia want to build a clean sheet UI, and all the symbian users scream foul play :-(

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-10-27 , 20:24
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#28
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
Because filters in the application menu wouldn't make sense. They would make the menu more complicated..
...throwing all calls into one big scrolling list has made retrieving specific types of calls more complicated.

Don't replace complication with another flavor of complication and automatically call it better, or arbitrarily dismiss other suggestions due to different forms of complication.

Face it: providing access to filters and sorting features adds a layer of complexity... but the usefulness is highly desired. So the solution is find a way to maximize information sorting/categorizing while minimizing "in your face" UI elements to get at it.

Don't tell me that can't be done.
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2009-10-27 , 20:26
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#29
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
Because filters in the application menu wouldn't make sense. They would make the menu more complicated.
Erm, so, why does Nokia seem to use them in many other places there are lists (say, the gallery application)? There's a fine balance between UI simplification and oversimplification and you guys seem to frequently be tripping over it.

Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
Point out bad UI decisions, and let's talk about them. But please don't generalize.
Please try to get the team to pay attention to Bugzilla. I'm tired of having reasonable bugs and enhancements marked WONTFIX or INVALID by Andre with comments from Nokia along the lines of "Spec says it should be this way, so we don't care." No discussion. No reasoning. Just one-line quotes from the bugmaster.

After 3 years it hardly feels like we've made any progress on bug #630.
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2009-10-27 , 20:28
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#30
Originally Posted by RevdKathy View Post
What's so hard about that?
Easy, the UI team and management can't stand to be wrong about anything, so bad decisions just get backed up by the UI specification.

Sadly ragnar is one of the only people who will at least discuss these decisions, but it never results in anything approaching consensus.
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