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2014-09-01
, 09:47
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
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#312
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Originally Posted by fk_lx
Indeed Fairphone are doing more than I have suggested Jolla do, transparency-wise.
He gave example of Fairphone. You obviously not reading the posts. It also seems that Fairphone sold the similar amount or even more units than Jolla already.
But that doesn't mean that is necessarily the right balance for Jolla or their business, it is just an example of what could be done.
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2014-09-01
, 09:49
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Posts: 752 |
Thanked: 2,808 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Czech Republic
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#313
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Honestly, I don't see the point in making examples out of companies with unknown profit and uncertain future.
Before you jump in and say "but that's the same with Jolla", let me stop you - of course it is, but that's not the point.
You are trying to support your hypothesis, that 'more transparency helps companies (like Jolla) to be successful'. Then I think that only providing an example of a company that was more transparent and also successful is relevant.
Others (including myself) have provided examples of larger (&successful) companies with less transparency and you might argue that 'when those were at the SMB stage, as Jolla is, they were much more open than Jolla and that is the reason of their later success' but then feel free to provide an example of a company that was more open and turned successful later.
Before you jump in and say "but that's the same with Jolla", let me stop you - of course it is, but that's not the point.
You are trying to support your hypothesis, that 'more transparency helps companies (like Jolla) to be successful'. Then I think that only providing an example of a company that was more transparent and also successful is relevant.
Others (including myself) have provided examples of larger (&successful) companies with less transparency and you might argue that 'when those were at the SMB stage, as Jolla is, they were much more open than Jolla and that is the reason of their later success' but then feel free to provide an example of a company that was more open and turned successful later.
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2014-09-01
, 09:50
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
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#314
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Originally Posted by Morpog
But then would it, really, take so much more time. That's a really good question and I think it probably wouldn't. I think putting out a controlled message might actually even take up more of their time, than some good old fashioned brutal honesty. Those Fairphone guys just seem to "post it as it comes", without thinking too much.
Would I appreciate Joloa being more open? sure
Would I want them shift their time on this instead of other more pressing areas? clearly no
Oh and I have seem to have risen on fk_lx's list of top enemys
I wonder how long it took for that Jolla guy to formulate the TJC answer there the SIM card holder question was closed carefully tiptoeing around any explanation given. Just telling it like it is, is very quick.
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2014-09-01
, 09:51
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Guest |
Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#315
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Originally Posted by pango
It took you three pages to produce ONE example when I asked for TWO. Count with me... One, two. It's not that hard.
And you keep ignoring my point:
You have no point really. That example is as flawed as your stance. Those folks were largely not happy. 283 posts, a good percentage were pissed or didn't know of the batches. That's not clear communication by any stretch of the imagination.
Your leap of faith just didn't work for me. And for the record, Jolla will not work in my region as anything more than a 2g phone. Remember that universally operating phone that would work in all regions?
This geek ain't happy. Those geeks you linked to, aren't fully happy either. Even when corrected, educated or otherwise. They're still waiting.
Your example sucked. I'll release you from delivering a second one, it'll probably suck too.
Take care.
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2014-09-01
, 09:55
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
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#316
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Originally Posted by nodevel
That includes the suggestion that their transparency would somehow be linked to their uncertainty. Fairphone and Jolla both face uncertain futures for a number of reasons. I doubt transparency will make or kill either one of them, but then I have never argued that either.
Honestly, I don't see the point in making examples out of companies with unknown profit and uncertain future.
Before you jump in and say "but that's the same with Jolla", let me stop you - of course it is, but that's not the point.
You are trying to support your hypothesis, that 'more transparency helps companies (like Jolla) to be successful'. Then I think that only providing an example of a company that was more transparent and also successful is relevant.
What I am arguing is transparency would improve community relations and early adopter enthusiasm - and for me it is easy to see how that would be helpful for Jolla at this early stage. It won't make or break their business, bigger things will do that, but it can help or hurt their business depending on how their community relations go.
Originally Posted by nodevel
Are you asking because you are curious or because you believe they don't exist? If not the latter, then the question is pretty pointless.
Others (including myself) have provided examples of larger (&successful) companies with less transparency and you might argue that 'when those were at the SMB stage, as Jolla is, they were much more open than Jolla and that is the reason of their later success' but then feel free to provide an example of a company that was more open and turned successful later.
It seems like you are fixated on examples, rather than pondering the points I am making above. Do you not believe transparency improves community relations? Do you not believe Jolla could do better than they do now in that regard? Do you not believe any company does better?
One guy said here on this thread, no company ever goes into any such detail in public. Has anything changed in this thread after I offered Toyota and now Fairphone as clear examples to the contrary? No. I guess the guy still believes no company ever does that.
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2014-09-01
, 10:01
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Posts: 752 |
Thanked: 2,808 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Czech Republic
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#317
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Originally Posted by pango
I don't know where you got that from, but it certainly wasn't the point. If I was about to make such claim, I would support it with facts and examples, unlike you did (pun not intended).
That includes the suggestion that their transparency would somehow be linked to their uncertainty.
Are you asking because you are curious or because you believe they don't exist? If not the latter, then the question is pretty pointless.
By the way, you can't seriously take Toyota as an example, as I mentioned few post beforehand that "companies make such announcements only if they're making a recall, which is not Jolla's case". And then you make an example of a recall...
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2014-09-01
, 10:03
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
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#318
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Originally Posted by gerbick
I have offered examples in previous posts, but explained that those experiences are from specific unrelated fields. What I brought in this time is, I guess, the closest comparable operation to Jolla in the world: Fairphone.
It took you three pages to produce ONE example when I asked for TWO. Count with me... One, two. It's not that hard.
And you ignore their exceptional transparency by quickly reading one thread of comments. I guess that really shows how futile it is to offer any examples from the real world, so it is always about shades, not some black/white scenario where either everyone is happy or nobody is.
Originally Posted by gerbick
There are people who are not happy about delays. But is the quality of transparency miles better than that of Jolla? Yes, it is. We can see them doing something many said here is impossible. That's awesome transparency compared to Jolla. Relative to Jolla, that communication is clear as day, if you think back to the TMO thread here on Jolla pre-orders.
You have no point really. That example is as flawed as your stance. Those folks were largely not happy. 283 posts, a good percentage were pissed or didn't know of the batches. That's not clear communication by any stretch of the imagination.
Jolla simply had nothing comparable, to the transparency Fairphone are offering. And I see a different image emerging in those comments, I see people turning around in their reactions, appreciating the information. In the long term, I believe that helps their community and thus their business.
As I've maintained all along, it is my opinion.
Originally Posted by gerbick
I have no idea what your point is there.
Your leap of faith just didn't work for me. And for the record, Jolla will not work in my region as anything more than a 2g phone. Remember that universally operating phone that would work in all regions?
Originally Posted by gerbick
Of course. But are you really suggesting a person waiting with transparent information is the same as person waiting without? I'm saying there is definitely a difference given two groups of waiting people, one who was kept informed and another that was not, when looking at overall statistics later on. I'll bet you the informed group is overall more happy.
This geek ain't happy. Those geeks you linked to, aren't fully happy either. Even when corrected, educated or otherwise. They're still waiting.
Originally Posted by gerbick
My example only sucked if you haphazardly skimmed the case (which I guess would happen with any example I might provide in detail) and considered customer happiness an on/off issue.
Your example sucked. I'll release you from delivering a second one, it'll probably suck too.
Take care.
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2014-09-01
, 10:05
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
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#319
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Originally Posted by nodevel
The point was, back then, that no company would ever discuss such level of detail - it wasn't excluding recalls at all.
By the way, you can't seriously take Toyota as an example, as I mentioned few post beforehand that "companies make such announcements only if they're making a recall, which is not Jolla's case". And then you make an example of a recall...
As for SIM card holder, I'm still not confident there wasn't a batch that might actually have warranted a recall from Jolla.
It is hard to say when the information is so vague.
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2014-09-01
, 10:12
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Posts: 752 |
Thanked: 2,808 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Czech Republic
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#320
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Originally Posted by pango
And again, I mentioned few posts beforehand, that companies do discuss such level in detail only if there's a recall.
The point was, back then, that no company would ever discuss such level of detail - it wasn't excluding recalls at all.
As for SIM card holder, I'm still not confident there wasn't a batch that might actually have warranted a recall from Jolla.
It is hard to say when the information is so vague.
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Would I want them shift their time on this instead of other more pressing areas? clearly no
Oh and I seem to have risen on fk_lx's list of top enemys