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2014-12-01
, 21:48
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Posts: 2,076 |
Thanked: 3,268 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
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#772
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Originally Posted by shmerl
You really don't get how kickstarter/igg works, you did not buy a product. You crowdfunded something that might, or not, get created. Jolla can pocket that 1.3 mil and run to live happily on an island somewhere far from the internet. They probably won't and will try to deliver a usable (for anyone and everyone) tablet. If exFAT spoils it for you, then we should really push for the opt-in, where you can not click it on startup and have the clean experience you believe in. And when your friend hands you 128gb sd card with the pictures of his baby/family vacation, you spit in his face, because MS sucks, reformat that **** before you hand me the 30 pieces of silver again
Accepted when making a decision. Not when it was added post factum after the decision was made already. Adding unknown controversial goals is bad. And if you think it's good we'll have to agree to disagree.
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2014-12-01
, 21:48
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#773
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Originally Posted by shmerl
No, I said exactly the opposite. I said I don't understand why it makes a difference if it's in the middle of the campaign or at the beginning, because it's nothing fundamentally new. It's just one more closed, patented technology. It's safe to assume that people who resist paying for such licenses with their money didn't support the campaign for such a consumer product in the first place. Those who supported it are either OK with the license fees (and therefore with a fee for exFAT) or just couldn't care less.
So, you agree that adding controversial goals in the middle is a bad idea. Good. That's the whole scope of the discussion and not whether Jolla uses some closed parts already or not and what to do about it.
Of course you understood very well that this is what I said. I question your motives, really.
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2014-12-01
, 21:56
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Posts: 1,298 |
Thanked: 2,277 times |
Joined on May 2011
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#774
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Originally Posted by Morpog
Yes, but that's the worst option. We are talking about how Jolla can provide better ones.
You are free to revoke your funding, aren't you?
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2014-12-01
, 22:17
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Posts: 2,076 |
Thanked: 3,268 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
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#775
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Seriously, stop thinking about this in terms of: I can format my cards however I want, don't abuse the money I already pledged for other patents, knowing this pains me.
More like something that gives you a clear advantage: hey Marc, I would really love to dl the pictures from your uber-camera 256mpix and all that you carried with you on our vacation, but, could you possibly reformat the card before you pass it to me? My beliefs prevent me from exfat, nothing personal dude
Nah, lets make it a moral issue
More like something that gives you a clear advantage: hey Marc, I would really love to dl the pictures from your uber-camera 256mpix and all that you carried with you on our vacation, but, could you possibly reformat the card before you pass it to me? My beliefs prevent me from exfat, nothing personal dude
Nah, lets make it a moral issue
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2014-12-01
, 23:06
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Posts: 1,298 |
Thanked: 2,277 times |
Joined on May 2011
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#776
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Originally Posted by szopin
Proposing to stop thinking something else isn't going to change the fact that it's a controversial issue with divided interests / preferences. So it's a bad idea to make it into a stretch goal which should appeal to all (or at least most) backers. Making controversial goals is just asking for backers dissatisfaction.
Seriously, stop thinking about this in terms of: I can format my cards however I want, don't abuse the money I already pledged for other patents, knowing this pains me.
More like something that gives you a clear advantage: hey Marc, I would really love to dl the pictures from your uber-camera 256mpix and all that you carried with you on our vacation, but, could you possibly reformat the card before you pass it to me? My beliefs prevent me from exfat, nothing personal dude
Nah, lets make it a moral issue
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2014-12-01
, 23:08
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Posts: 1,298 |
Thanked: 2,277 times |
Joined on May 2011
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#777
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Originally Posted by benny1967
And you were answered already. Making it in the beginning allows backers to decide based on the input. Making in the middle doesn't, it just makes it mandatory for those who paid before that goal was made (if the goal is reached of course). Quite basic, but many here somehow think it's OK to do that even if it happens that many backers find that goal wrong.
No, I said exactly the opposite. I said I don't understand why it makes a difference if it's in the middle of the campaign or at the beginning,
Originally Posted by szopin
That's exactly how it works. Backers invest in the product. And as investors expect something from it. If they get not what they expect, it's wrong. Did backers who supported the project expect that their money will be used to pay for exFAT? No, why would they. And many didn't appreciate it when it was announced. Compare it to any other type of investment.
You really don't get how kickstarter/igg works, you did not buy a product. You crowdfunded something that might, or not, get created.
Last edited by shmerl; 2014-12-01 at 23:18.
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2014-12-01
, 23:21
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Posts: 2,076 |
Thanked: 3,268 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
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#778
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Originally Posted by shmerl
Wrong, there is no guarantee (edit: promise made no sense here) of delivery. Check KS/IGG rules, you are not buying anything, you are donating to an idea. Not investing...
That's exactly how it works. Backers invest in the product.
And as investors expect something from it. If they get not what they expect, it's wrong.
Did backers who supported the project expect that their money will be used to pay for exFAT? No, why would they. And many don't appreciate it. Compare it to any other type of investment.
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2014-12-01
, 23:30
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Posts: 2,076 |
Thanked: 3,268 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
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#779
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Originally Posted by shmerl
Not stop thinking something, to look at it in perspective. You can format your card as you want. We are not friends, I do not make my camera purchase decisions based on your belief system (assuming I still cared about you being my friend, really cannon was the straw? like kodak is so much better because of filesystem support?). Being able to accept cards from people who do not necessarily think/format cards as you do is an extra, seriously, you can cripple your device if you want and continue on this fight, but why?
Proposing to stop thinking something else isn't going to change the fact that it's a controversial issue with divided interests / preferences. So it's a bad idea to make it into a stretch goal which should appeal to all (or at least most) backers. Making controversial goals is just asking for backers dissatisfaction.
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2014-12-01
, 23:42
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Posts: 102 |
Thanked: 171 times |
Joined on Nov 2014
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#780
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What I like the most about this discussion is the sheer number of assumptions and (to an extent) mud-slinging by some parties. It's pretty loud in this thread.
The sole reason I joined the discussion was to explore what other options can be taken regarding the exFAT situation. That's all. I'm not one to default to the pragmatic approach all the time, but I'm not the "Red Hat+NSA conspiratard" kind of person. If an alternate path can be taken by Jolla to save them some money on licensing fees, then so be it. If they're gonna pay Microsoft the money for exFAT, then so be it. It's my preference that they'd choose the less pragmatic approach, but I'm not gonna dwell on it if they don't. They're a company, and they have the first+final say in anything they do.
After seeing the arguments presented by those supporting the exFAT patent, I concede my position. No need for all this extra noise.
@Morpog
If this is fringe-level fundamentalism to you, then you haven't seen it in all its flaming glory. Ever took a peek at *Diaspora? Check the systemd flamewar? And they're all losing hair over FREE SOFTWARE that they don't have to use. If I'm on the fringe, then I'm the worst kind of F/OSS lunatic.
@benny1967
As an "anti-exFAT" person (not even true), I do not use Facebook, WhatsApp, or Skype, but not because they're closed+proprietary; I merely do not trust those services. I run Arch Linux (call it what you want, I really don't care) on both of my computers, and my router has dd-WRT installed on it. I don't care enough to use a VPN.
I've moved past the whole "open vs. closed" debate, my conclusion being that I'll just research something I'm interested in and use it if I want, open-source or no. I'm more of a "live and let live" kind of person.
The sole reason I joined the discussion was to explore what other options can be taken regarding the exFAT situation. That's all. I'm not one to default to the pragmatic approach all the time, but I'm not the "Red Hat+NSA conspiratard" kind of person. If an alternate path can be taken by Jolla to save them some money on licensing fees, then so be it. If they're gonna pay Microsoft the money for exFAT, then so be it. It's my preference that they'd choose the less pragmatic approach, but I'm not gonna dwell on it if they don't. They're a company, and they have the first+final say in anything they do.
After seeing the arguments presented by those supporting the exFAT patent, I concede my position. No need for all this extra noise.
@Morpog
If this is fringe-level fundamentalism to you, then you haven't seen it in all its flaming glory. Ever took a peek at *Diaspora? Check the systemd flamewar? And they're all losing hair over FREE SOFTWARE that they don't have to use. If I'm on the fringe, then I'm the worst kind of F/OSS lunatic.
@benny1967
As an "anti-exFAT" person (not even true), I do not use Facebook, WhatsApp, or Skype, but not because they're closed+proprietary; I merely do not trust those services. I run Arch Linux (call it what you want, I really don't care) on both of my computers, and my router has dd-WRT installed on it. I don't care enough to use a VPN.
I've moved past the whole "open vs. closed" debate, my conclusion being that I'll just research something I'm interested in and use it if I want, open-source or no. I'm more of a "live and let live" kind of person.
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