lantern | # 31 | 2018-04-29, 08:48 | Report

Make no mistake. They might be blocking it, so that people may think just like you

When in reality, FSB might have a direct channel to telegram servers you never know.

kinggo | # 32 | 2018-04-29, 10:43 | Report

what do we ever know anyway? I mean, they take our fingerprints, more than half of the sate related stuff is now digital even in a ******** like HR. Public "safety" camers are everyvhere, we get traffic ticket just like that because of .again, cameras. We end up on someone else FB or instacrap just beceause we were there. Again, cameras all over. I don't see chats as the biggest issue when it comes to privacy.

lantern | # 33 | 2018-04-29, 12:38 | Report

Exactly. So in my opinion nobody should delegate their privacy to companies. They exist not for your pleasure and freedom.

Wanna do it good - do it yourself.

nh1402 | # 34 | 2018-05-03, 08:45 | Report

So I was pretty much right with Alien Dalvik, they've gotten the appropriate licenses to work on and maintain Alien Dalvik themselves.

kinggo | # 35 | 2018-05-03, 09:50 | Report

great........ so it's just a matter of time when android compatibility will take more working hours than sailfish OS Or we will end up with just a sailfish launcher for android

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Last edited by kinggo; 2018-05-03 at 11:06. Reason: typo

pacman | # 36 | 2018-05-04, 18:19 | Report

With respect to messaging/communication, it seems to me that matrix is the best hope at the moment, even if it isn't quite there yet. Unfortunately the most comfortable way to use matrix on Sailfish is still Riot.im under Alien Dalvik, and even then there are problems with notifications. Maybe the Transponder project will improve things, although the author seems to be too busy with other things at the moment to progress it.

Do you have a source for this? (I've looked around to see if you have quoted anything elsewhere, but didn't find anything. Sorry if I have missed it.)

Although I understand the reasons for this kind of sentiment, I worry that we are missing a golden opportunity. 2018 is the best year for talking about privacy to the general public that we have had for quite some time. I believe that FB and friends will be actively working to keep the subject out of public view from now on. It may be several years before the issue hits the headlines again.

My personal belief is that the nature of the current Android support is the worst of both worlds, because it makes things highly unpredictable for people like me who use it. Some apps don't work at all, and some only partially work. As Android apps are upgraded, the functionality degrades, or they stop working completely from one day to the next. Downgrading to an earlier version doesn't always help: changes in APIs mean that the earlier versions may stop working once the newer versions are released. Going forward, there are really only two options for Android app support that make sense if we want adoption of Sailfish to increase. Either:

* kill it off completely now, or:

* upgrade it now so that more apps work with it, even if the long term plan is to kill it off

I don't see how the first of these options would result in a lot of useful native apps suddenly being developed. I don't think that any current or future services would be developed for app-free mobile browser use just to support Sailfish either. Who would switch to Sailfish from Android then? Sailfish would remain a niche product, and eventually go the way of WebOS (my very first smartphone was a WebOS one BTW, and I still regret its demise).

I believe that it is possible to make a case for Sailfish + Android compatibility like this:

* Privacy problems are built into consumer Android. You can choose whether or not to run particular apps on Android, but the privacy concerns are always there. If you choose Sailfish instead, you will be better off than with Android as far as privacy is concerned.

* There are quite a few Android apps around that are written to address privacy concerns, and that use this as a selling point[1]. Even if you don't feel like researching this yourself, you may well hear about privacy-respecting apps and services in the general media. People you know who are technically knowledgeable might also advise. Running these kind of apps on Sailfish means that your phone really isn't telling Google what you are up to.

If more people take up Sailfish, then more native apps might be developed for it. (It would help if in-app payments were possible as well of course, but that is another topic.) This may strike some of you as idealistic, but talking the possibility down probably makes it less likely to happen.

A lot depends on what Jolla wants of course. If they are not interested in enabling widespread adoption, then it definitely won't happen. If they are, then I still think that improved Android compatibility is needed for a step change in uptake of Sailfish in the medium term.

Sorry about the length of this post, but I wanted to set all this out as clearly as I could, even though I know that many of you won't be convinced

[1] Without specifically endorsing any of them, here are a couple of examples of Android apps for messaging services that do seem to pay more than lip service to user privacy: Wickr, Wire, Hoccer. My hope for the future is matrix of course, but we will see.

feedme | # 37 | 2018-05-04, 19:20 | Report

Android / alien licencies mentioned here. Foss north
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tFF_cY6e-IQ

juiceme | # 38 | 2018-05-05, 06:33 | Report

James says so in the meeting, around 08:31:03;
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-m...08.00.log.html

jenix | # 39 | 2018-05-05, 08:36 | Report

I ask on the last Community meeting on Thursday if they are going to update AlienDalvik to support newer Android versions or if they plan to switch to another runtime. Here are the quotes from the log juiceme already linked:

Personally, I still see the Android support as a big advantage of SFOS. Unfortunately, more and more companies are going "app first" or even "app exclusive" which normally only includes apps for iOS and Android. Since both platforms are privacy nightmares, SFOS with AlienDalvik could be the third option to run those apps without giving up all your data.
Of course, this requires two changes at the moment: support for newer Android version and app permission management to restrict the access of those apps. But it seems that both is on the roadmap and will be available in 2.2 at some time.

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Last edited by jenix; 2018-05-05 at 08:49.

juiceme | # 40 | 2018-05-05, 12:47 | Report

What you don't take into consideration here is that if you get an app as given, your security is already busted. Regardless of what the platform is.

If you install any random binary-only application to your device you will grant it at least user-level system access to your device, in some cases even root-level access. (and for most systems it is enough to have user-level access as there are new privilige escalation holes all the time...)

The only possible safe way is that the service provider publishes a sane API and the applications using it are provided in source form to be compiled by oneself. Binary distribution can be allowed if the sources are available and mechanism for reproducible build verification exists.