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2008-07-19
, 15:21
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#22
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combatdoc, thanks for your addition! I'm glad you're positive about Evolution.
With hildonized I meant it integrates aesthetically well in Hildon, but besides that I also refer to a more vague aspect: it is easily usable on a tablet. The GNOME way is to 'not have too many options'. I think Evolution gives far too many options.
With 'integrates well', I mean things like applets (for PIM, like GPE provides), and being able to use the information of e-mail in address book together with say IM or SIP. This is how a computer should work IMO, and even more so how a device like this should function. Why more so on a device like this? Its harder to control, its more difficult to do all kind of small things to 'make it work'. Everything should be very well integrated with each other in a user-friendly way in the sense that 1) its functioning without hassle 2) it looks `peaceful'. This is more important than features... however, some things like PIM are features clearly missing.
Then there is bugs issue. You're right about Modest, it is still beta quality...
IMO Nokia should put money into the above effort. It'd make the NIT a far more usable device. Then again, the Mozilla folks cannot even get this right after so many years (they do their best though!).
With hildonized I meant it integrates aesthetically well in Hildon, but besides that I also refer to a more vague aspect: it is easily usable on a tablet. The GNOME way is to 'not have too many options'. I think Evolution gives far too many options.
With 'integrates well', I mean things like applets (for PIM, like GPE provides), and being able to use the information of e-mail in address book together with say IM or SIP. This is how a computer should work IMO, and even more so how a device like this should function. Why more so on a device like this? Its harder to control, its more difficult to do all kind of small things to 'make it work'. Everything should be very well integrated with each other in a user-friendly way in the sense that 1) its functioning without hassle 2) it looks `peaceful'. This is more important than features... however, some things like PIM are features clearly missing.
Then there is bugs issue. You're right about Modest, it is still beta quality...
IMO Nokia should put money into the above effort. It'd make the NIT a far more usable device. Then again, the Mozilla folks cannot even get this right after so many years (they do their best though!).
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2008-07-19
, 15:23
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#23
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he doesnt exactly say the maemo port is dead. he just says they're not actively taking care of it. they do accept maemo-related patches, though.
so if somebody here knows how to code, it would be great if he/she'd have a look at what needs to be done to the source to prettify it under maemo. - it's not that the apps need a complete re-write, they do work just as they are. it's only a bit of facelifting.
so if somebody here knows how to code, it would be great if he/she'd have a look at what needs to be done to the source to prettify it under maemo. - it's not that the apps need a complete re-write, they do work just as they are. it's only a bit of facelifting.
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2008-07-19
, 15:31
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Posts: 4,783 |
Thanked: 1,253 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ norway
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#24
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well i dont see a 0.9 version out on the repo yet...
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2008-07-19
, 16:02
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Posts: 204 |
Thanked: 29 times |
Joined on May 2008
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#25
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Originally Posted by allnameswereout
I just think prting Evolution would be the right effort. Evolution integrates well with itself now, just as you described above, and I am sure if it was available for the tablet Home applets and such would come along shortly. It doesn't take much to write an applet that would read into EDS (Speed contacts already exists) and display the info on the Home screen. Besides Evo is an app most of us are already familiar with, and know how powerful it can be when used (Think having full Outlook on a WindowsMobile Device).
combatdoc, thanks for your addition! I'm glad you're positive about Evolution.
With hildonized I meant it integrates aesthetically well in Hildon, but besides that I also refer to a more vague aspect: it is easily usable on a tablet. The GNOME way is to 'not have too many options'. I think Evolution gives far too many options.
With 'integrates well', I mean things like applets (for PIM, like GPE provides), and being able to use the information of e-mail in address book together with say IM or SIP. This is how a computer should work IMO, and even more so how a device like this should function. Why more so on a device like this? Its harder to control, its more difficult to do all kind of small things to 'make it work'. Everything should be very well integrated with each other in a user-friendly way in the sense that 1) its functioning without hassle 2) it looks `peaceful'. This is more important than features... however, some things like PIM are features clearly missing.
Then there is bugs issue. You're right about Modest, it is still beta quality...
IMO Nokia should put money into the above effort. It'd make the NIT a far more usable device. Then again, the Mozilla folks cannot even get this right after so many years (they do their best though!).
Hildonization is important so that it melds into the device, but Evo would be quite usable even un0hildonized (to start with) because it has a Vertical "button-style" layout already. Tap Email for Email, Contacts for Contacts, etc. Yes, it would take some modifications to get it exactly right, but look at Abiword, KDE apps, et al. They are still quite usable under the Hildon interface, even unhildonized.
As far as SIP and such, the same rules apply. EDS is there for everyone to use, and reading it can't be too hard. ContactsInfo applet already does that as well. I use Phonelink in conjunction with ContactInfos and it reads EDS, or GPE and will pull the contact info straight into the app to dial out, send SMS etc.
Yes, Evo has lots of options, but the point being its already available (ARM), most of the hard work is done (incl EDS for maemo), its well integrated into itself, and is a one stop solution to a problem the NITs have - PIM/Email functionality. Put the money into developing Evo or something like it for the NIT and you'll get far more bang for your buck than developing something from scratch, and users would be far happier having the PIM/Email thing solved.
__________________
Doc, 68W3P, AAS, NREMT-P
Far From Perfect
Mobile Version (Under Dev, Please Comment)
Nokia n810 Diablo
(After many years of Palm and Windows PDAs)
"So Shut Up, Live, Travel, Adventure, Bless, And Don't Be Sorry." - Jack Kerouac
Doc, 68W3P, AAS, NREMT-P
Far From Perfect
Mobile Version (Under Dev, Please Comment)
Nokia n810 Diablo
(After many years of Palm and Windows PDAs)
"So Shut Up, Live, Travel, Adventure, Bless, And Don't Be Sorry." - Jack Kerouac
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2008-07-19
, 19:53
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#26
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i have mixed feelings about evolution. as an additional choice, yes. but there's no way it could replace the current system of small apps that are tightly integrated, use a commom database but expose just what is needed for the one task your up to.
the pimlico suite would be the one missing piece because it exposes all the data fields in its GUI and is modular so i neednt even install the calendar app if i dont plan to use it (let alone load it each time i want to check my mail...)
the pimlico suite would be the one missing piece because it exposes all the data fields in its GUI and is modular so i neednt even install the calendar app if i dont plan to use it (let alone load it each time i want to check my mail...)
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2008-07-19
, 20:05
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Posts: 204 |
Thanked: 29 times |
Joined on May 2008
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#27
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There is no current system of tightly integrated apps, that's the big issue. As far as Pimlico goes, they stated they had no interest in tablets, and regardless of accpting patches, its now a dead project on the Nit. No new releases for the nit means no development.
However I see your point about not loading uneeded modules, especially in a tight system. I would still like to see what Evo for maemo could bring to the table, and it would not be a start from scratch thing.
BTW, I already dumped Pimlico except for contacts. No need to support and rely on a dead app.
However I see your point about not loading uneeded modules, especially in a tight system. I would still like to see what Evo for maemo could bring to the table, and it would not be a start from scratch thing.
BTW, I already dumped Pimlico except for contacts. No need to support and rely on a dead app.
__________________
Doc, 68W3P, AAS, NREMT-P
Far From Perfect
Mobile Version (Under Dev, Please Comment)
Nokia n810 Diablo
(After many years of Palm and Windows PDAs)
"So Shut Up, Live, Travel, Adventure, Bless, And Don't Be Sorry." - Jack Kerouac
Doc, 68W3P, AAS, NREMT-P
Far From Perfect
Mobile Version (Under Dev, Please Comment)
Nokia n810 Diablo
(After many years of Palm and Windows PDAs)
"So Shut Up, Live, Travel, Adventure, Bless, And Don't Be Sorry." - Jack Kerouac
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2008-07-19
, 20:27
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#28
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Actually i dont see much of a problem with the pimlico stuff: it's there, it works. the source is also there. 0.9 included fixes for a maemo-specific bug.
so, all we need is somebody to look at the sources at make a nice package for maemo. this could end up in their old repository or in extras... you know, as long as the project itself is alive (fixing bugs, adding fearures) and based so handily on maemo core technology, it really doesnt matter much if they know about maemo at all. them saying they'd at least accept patches from other contributors is even better.
so, all we need is somebody to look at the sources at make a nice package for maemo. this could end up in their old repository or in extras... you know, as long as the project itself is alive (fixing bugs, adding fearures) and based so handily on maemo core technology, it really doesnt matter much if they know about maemo at all. them saying they'd at least accept patches from other contributors is even better.
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2008-07-20
, 10:38
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Posts: 4,783 |
Thanked: 1,253 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ norway
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#29
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Originally Posted by benny1967
does it? that contradict the blog post i linked to earlier...
Actually i dont see much of a problem with the pimlico stuff: it's there, it works. the source is also there. 0.9 included fixes for a maemo-specific bug.
also, why is there not yet a 0.9 maemo deb available then?
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2008-07-20
, 10:59
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#30
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Originally Posted by tso
to be more precise: it's in the blog post you linked to earlier.
does it? that contradict the blog post i linked to earlier...
Originally Posted by tso
I dont know and, again, it's completely irrelevant. Pimplico apps are known to work on maemo with no or little tweaking, so even if they abandon maemo completely at o-hand, each of us can build the package for the tablet and either send it back to o-hand or put it elsewhere.
also, why is there not yet a 0.9 maemo deb available then?
Many of the apps we have on the tablets are not built for maemo upstream. IMHO, thats how it should work anyway. Its much better to port existing apps to maemo than to re-invent the wheel for each and every task.
1) "Evolution is way too big and not hildonized." Check out KDE 3.58, Debian Chroot, AbiWord, and a few more I can name. Those are way bigger than Evolution and they work on the tablet. Hildonization, while nice would not be an immediate need as Evo would still be quite usable I think.
Evolution is already Gnome compliant, and Maemo/Hildon is basically gnome on the Matchbox WM so we are already covered there. EDS is already in place, so the majority of the meat is there, we just need the front-end ported (as I stated its already available for ARM processors).
As far as Modest being Ported to Maemo and being a "consumer-quality way of syncing data," have you read the forums lately? I quit using the built in E-mail altogether because it frankly blows. I was on #maemo and one guy said it took an hour to sync his IMAP data. Not to mention it just randomly quits working and is pretty unstable. Claws, while good has its own problems.
2) As far as "all the PIM solutions is that none of them integrates well with maemo" goes, an Evo port would make that argument moot. Evo would integrate into the already established maemo backend (EDS) and would give a complete Email and PIM solution that is easily syncable with already available plugins to Multi-Sync and Opensync, as well as with SyncML via syncevolution.
So there you go - just my 2 cents. And funny thing is I am not a real big fan of Evo on the desktop, but it would be the appropriate solution for E-Mail/PIM on the tablet IMHO.
Doc, 68W3P, AAS, NREMT-P
Far From Perfect
Mobile Version (Under Dev, Please Comment)
Nokia n810 Diablo
(After many years of Palm and Windows PDAs)
"So Shut Up, Live, Travel, Adventure, Bless, And Don't Be Sorry." - Jack Kerouac
Last edited by combatdoc; 2008-07-19 at 01:48.