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2008-09-15
, 07:08
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Posts: 643 |
Thanked: 628 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
@ Seattle (or thereabouts)
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#2
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The Following User Says Thank You to Johnx For This Useful Post: | ||
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2008-09-15
, 11:17
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Posts: 7 |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on Sep 2008
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#3
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2008-09-15
, 12:06
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Posts: 5,795 |
Thanked: 3,151 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Agoura Hills Calif
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#4
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2008-09-15
, 12:56
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Posts: 7 |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on Sep 2008
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#5
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2008-09-19
, 03:19
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Posts: 7 |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on Sep 2008
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#6
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2008-09-19
, 04:22
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Posts: 4,930 |
Thanked: 2,272 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#7
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Okay, here's a question I couldn't get answered by googling around.
Since I want to try stuff out, is it possible to either:
* Compile the entire Maemo platform for x86 and run it in an appropriately sized Xnest or Xvnc window
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2008-09-19
, 04:52
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Posts: 1,213 |
Thanked: 356 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
@ California and Virginia
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#8
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* If I flash corrupt or improperly "built" firmware onto an N810, is there a magic trick I can perform that I can use to tell tell the CPU to wait for a new flash image to be written to the device (like plugging in a special cable or flicking a switch inside the case), in order to fix it? Or is the device dead?
* I assume the N810 somehow "boots" the firmware, so how do you flash this firmware onto the device? And if anyone can share how an ARM CPU boots, that'd be interesting to learn.
* If I considered an application (a situational type of application) that has the N810 as a kind of "status device" that sits in my pocket and tells me of updates to different things, is there any way the N810 can notify me without me seeing it? For example, I've heard that it doesn't have a vibrator. Is there anything else it might be able to do to get my attention?
* Does the system fire events or modify a file in /proc or /sys if I slide out the keyboard or slide it back in? Can I `cat' a number or string to a file somewhere to turn the LED on or off, or make it change color? Or are these locked down by complex API calls?
* How does X work? Does it work much like X on a desktop would, except it outputs to the integrated screen?
* From a software perspective, if I push the architecture difference(s) aside, can I see the N810 pretty much like a PC in that if I write an app that uses the GNOME libraries (for example) will it run on the N810 (if I put uArch on it)? What toolkits compile for ARM?
* Can I stuff both Arch Linux and OS 2008 into the internal memory, once I have everything sorted?
* The Linux kernel is open source, but are Nokia's changes also open source? Specifically, can I recompile the kernel if I want to, or am I locked into using Nokia kernels with closed-source changes?
The Following User Says Thank You to Thesandlord For This Useful Post: | ||
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2008-09-26
, 06:07
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Posts: 7 |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on Sep 2008
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#9
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Originally Posted by dav7Ok, Im assuming you only made changes to the kernel, right? In this case, I am 95% sure you could just reflash the kernel.* If I flash corrupt or improperly "built" firmware onto an N810, is there a magic trick I can perform that I can use to tell tell the CPU to wait for a new flash image to be written to the device (like plugging in a special cable or flicking a switch inside the case), in order to fix it? Or is the device dead?
Originally Posted by dav7There is a flasher tool for linux (and mac?) that can flash kerne; images and such. I'm sure you can do whatever you want.* I assume the N810 somehow "boots" the firmware, so how do you flash this firmware onto the device? And if anyone can share how an ARM CPU boots, that'd be interesting to learn.
Originally Posted by dav7Yes. There is a programmable status LED, and built in speakers. Physically, Sound = Vibration. So a low pitch, loud sound would cause the vibration you are looking for. Or just some high pitch chirps or something....* If I considered an application (a situational type of application) that has the N810 as a kind of "status device" that sits in my pocket and tells me of updates to different things, is there any way the N810 can notify me without me seeing it? For example, I've heard that it doesn't have a vibrator. Is there anything else it might be able to do to get my attention?
Originally Posted by dav7I don't know HOW it works, but yes. Every single button, slider, light sensor, temperature sensor, blah blah blah, can be used by 3rd party programs. I know this because apps such as autolock and sliderotate use these. And mail and chat programs frequently use the LED. Red, Green, and Blue are the colors on the n810 I think.* Does the system fire events or modify a file in /proc or /sys if I slide out the keyboard or slide it back in? Can I `cat' a number or string to a file somewhere to turn the LED on or off, or make it change color? Or are these locked down by complex API calls?
Originally Posted by dav7From my experience, yes. Its a full X server. So things like SSH X forwarding work and XVNC work, and there are experimental USB->VGA adapters that work.How does X work? Does it work much like X on a desktop would, except it outputs to the integrated screen?
Originally Posted by dav7Can't really help much on this one. I think apps have to be rewritten a little to cohere to Hildon standards. Otherwise it does not fit into the "Theme" of the tablet. Alternatively, you could use another window manager such as KDE, Openbox, ICEWM, etc...From a software perspective, if I push the architecture difference(s) aside, can I see the N810 pretty much like a PC in that if I write an app that uses the GNOME libraries (for example) will it run on the N810 (if I put uArch on it)? What toolkits compile for ARM?
If you are developing for the tablet (opposed to porting), I think there is a lot of good documentation and libraries available.
Originally Posted by dav7Nope. Don't try. Its pointless. The internal ROM on the N810 is pitiful. A MUCH better option would be to install it on a SD card, and boot from it, much like Debian and Android work on the tablets. Or a chroot, or something.Can I stuff both Arch Linux and OS 2008 into the internal memory, once I have everything sorted?
Originally Posted by dav7You can change the kernel and still use the closed source binaries if you want. I think only a few things are closed (because of NDA) like WiFi and Bluetooth, GPS, etc... Remember, these things all have Open Source API so you can fully interact with them, but the drivers are closed...The Linux kernel is open source, but are Nokia's changes also open source? Specifically, can I recompile the kernel if I want to, or am I locked into using Nokia kernels with closed-source changes?
This is also one reason why we don't have graphics drivers.
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2008-09-26
, 06:21
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#10
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I don't yet own an N810 but hope to sometime in the future. I've seen screenshots of the Maemo UI (that screen has a *really* high resolution from what I can see in photos, since screenshots are SO big!) but don't really like its layout. I'd far prefer a UI that I write myself, but predominantly want a desktop based on something like Openbox or similar. If that's even possible.
You may have guessed already, but I've never owned an embedded device like this before, so I have a few questions: I know nothing about how to flash, update or otherwise copy firmware, custom or otherwise, onto a device like the N810. Well, I have a router/modem, but it runs proprietary firmware, and updating it was just a few clicks in a winfailure application.
So I just wanted to know:
* I assume the N810 somehow "boots" the firmware, so how do you flash this firmware onto the device? And if anyone can share how an ARM CPU boots, that'd be interesting to learn.
* If I flash corrupt or improperly "built" firmware onto an N810, is there a magic trick I can perform that I can use to tell tell the CPU to wait for a new flash image to be written to the device (like plugging in a special cable or flicking a switch inside the case), in order to fix it? Or is the device dead?
* Can you dual-boot two different types of firmware? Is something like this stable (dual-booting in a situation like this sounds a little on the unstable side, but I don't know)?
That said, I want to get uArch (Launchpad page, Google Code page), a subset of Arch Linux for resource constrained/non-x86 architectures such as the ARM CPU, working on an N810 when I finally get one. Arch Linux focuses on simplicity, and since uArch is more or less Arch Linux, if I installed it, I'd have a lot of options such as choice of windowmanager and the like. At the moment uArch takes up around 300MB for a base install but that size is being worked on.
Thing is, since I've never done something like this before, I've no idea where to start. So any help, tips, advice etc will be welcomed.
-dav7
Last edited by dav7; 2008-09-15 at 02:55.