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mullf |
2009-04-18
, 02:01
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Posts: 610 |
Thanked: 391 times |
Joined on Feb 2006
@ DC, USA
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#201
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Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt
If it's not something I want anymore, why should I care if it lives or dies?
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2009-04-18
, 03:06
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#202
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Originally Posted by mullf
I was not implying the case of not wanting the tablet. It is possible to dislike some engineering decisions and still want the tablet. Such is the case with my beloved N810.
If it's not something I want anymore, why should I care if it lives or dies?
But to answer your question:
Whether you care or not is up to you. However, some people care about the satiation of others. I've made friends on this board, and even if I didn't want the future NIT, I would still prefer it 'lived,' for their benefit.
YARR!
}:^)~
?Capt'n Corrupt?
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2009-04-18
, 08:09
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#203
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Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt
no. what good is it to ensure the future of the tablets if it can only be done by changing the concept of the tablets in a way that in the end they're not what i once liked anymore, back in 2006, when i bought my 770?
I *like* the tablets. I think it's a wonderful innovation. I would rather Nokia satisfy the market, and thus ensure the future of the tablet, even if certain decisions are counter to my wants. Wouldn't you?
this is a purely theoretical question ATM because i'll still buy an RX-51, no matter how they change maemo... i'm too curious.
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2009-04-18
, 11:45
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#204
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Originally Posted by lemmyslender
The goal is to have the software out of box find the best balance between "mobile" and "portable" taking advantage of the hardware as outlined by ragnar here. Because a new Maemo-based device by Nokia is more aimed at mainstream than previous devices the out of box experience also becomes more important. That the out of box experience of a device is not the experience a hacker, developer or power user wants is a given and is also the case with other devices (DAPs, smartphones, laptops, cameras, fridges, coffee machines, and so on).
This is what I'm afraid of the move from a "portable" device to a "mobile" device.
A nice finger friendly "mobile" UI is great on my phone which I can quickly use as an mp3 player, respond to a text message or two, read an email (not respond unless a short response is required), quickly browse the web.
What I bought my N800 for was use as an "portable" actually perhaps more accurately "ultra-portable" (when compared to netbooks) device/usage. I can use it to check/respond to emails that require longer responses, watch movies on the larger screen, review maintain spreadsheets/documents, sort through hundreds of photos / files on easily changeable sd cards, and much much more.
I already have a "mobile" device (phone) and a "portable" device (laptop). I was hoping for another toy to fill the gap between the two such as the current tablets.
It would be a very difficult decision to spend more money on a "mobile" device with only slight advantages despite the astronomically better hardware (from my humble point of view).
You are free to modify your experience which software-wise, unlike in the case of Apple iPhone, is endorsed by Nokia. Heck, even encouraged! This allows you to for example -as you stated you prefer- run desktop applications on your tablet. Because, as appears in this topic, there is demand for desktop and stylus optimized UI paradigms you can rest assure this will be available 3rd party, and you're free to contribute. It just won't work like that out of the box (for reason, see above).
Providing traditional desktop applications has been possible on "mobile" devices too. There are folks who run VNC clients and torrent clients on their smartphone. Not my cup of tea, not part of the out of box experience, but it is possible.
Ofcourse, you're still limited by the hardware. Not having a T9 or TrackPoint, the type of screen (capacitative or resistive) is a hardware design choice one cannot easily circumvent. Although there are mods (1, 2) which work around design choices of N810.
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2009-04-18
, 12:34
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Posts: 968 |
Thanked: 974 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
@ Ohio
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#205
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To borrow part of ragnars' metaphor:
Automobiles are like the current desktop/laptop computers, powerful, endless variety suited to your needs, easy to use, and will get you where you want to go.
Bicycles are like the current mobile devices, not very powerful, far less variety, easy to use, will get you where you need to go.
Some people have bicycles with small motors on them similar to the current smart phones. They are more powerful than bicycles, but a little harder to use, and a lot fewer of them out there.
Motorcycles are like the current tablets. A little bigger than a bicycle, a lot more powerful, harder to use than a bicycle, and similar to a car to use.
Nokia seems to be going for a moped with the new tablets. Trying to combine the strengths of a bicycle and motorcycle in a pretty package. More powerful than a bicycle, and unfortunately more powerful than the current motorcycles. Not quite as easy to use as a bicycle, easier to use than a motorcycle, and although more powerful than a motorcycle, ultimately constrained by the pretty package making them less useful than a motorcycle.
Sure, some people will figure out ways to remove parts of the pretty package to unleash their full potential, but this is really a very small subset.
I believe sales numbers in go along the lines of cars > bicycles > motorcycles >> mopeds. I believe this is what may happen with the new tablets which would be very bad. A lot of people already have a car and a bicycle. Some also get a motorcycle as an exciting toy (way more fun than a bicycle and able to replace a car in a pinch). Very few people would get a car, bicycle, and a moped.
I'm more concerned about the software than the existence of an actual stylus (I have plenty lying around from previous devices). I would much prefer a device capable of holding a stylus without a third party add-on or a case being required, but ultimately the software is the real issue.
The question is: If the next devices will have hardware keyboards why keep an on screen keyboard at all? If it makes sense to have an on screen keyboard, why not keep both? Surely, that does not take up much more resources or time to support. By getting rid of the stylus keyboard, and having a finger based ui, from a cost standpoint, it would make sense to eliminate the stylus entirely.
PS. I can use/play with both liqbase and numpty physics with my finger? Numpty is a little harder, and more of a challenge, but certainly neither *require* a stylus to use.
I also apologize for any grammar, or spelling errors, or any run-on sentences, etc.
Automobiles are like the current desktop/laptop computers, powerful, endless variety suited to your needs, easy to use, and will get you where you want to go.
Bicycles are like the current mobile devices, not very powerful, far less variety, easy to use, will get you where you need to go.
Some people have bicycles with small motors on them similar to the current smart phones. They are more powerful than bicycles, but a little harder to use, and a lot fewer of them out there.
Motorcycles are like the current tablets. A little bigger than a bicycle, a lot more powerful, harder to use than a bicycle, and similar to a car to use.
Nokia seems to be going for a moped with the new tablets. Trying to combine the strengths of a bicycle and motorcycle in a pretty package. More powerful than a bicycle, and unfortunately more powerful than the current motorcycles. Not quite as easy to use as a bicycle, easier to use than a motorcycle, and although more powerful than a motorcycle, ultimately constrained by the pretty package making them less useful than a motorcycle.
Sure, some people will figure out ways to remove parts of the pretty package to unleash their full potential, but this is really a very small subset.
I believe sales numbers in go along the lines of cars > bicycles > motorcycles >> mopeds. I believe this is what may happen with the new tablets which would be very bad. A lot of people already have a car and a bicycle. Some also get a motorcycle as an exciting toy (way more fun than a bicycle and able to replace a car in a pinch). Very few people would get a car, bicycle, and a moped.
I'm more concerned about the software than the existence of an actual stylus (I have plenty lying around from previous devices). I would much prefer a device capable of holding a stylus without a third party add-on or a case being required, but ultimately the software is the real issue.
The question is: If the next devices will have hardware keyboards why keep an on screen keyboard at all? If it makes sense to have an on screen keyboard, why not keep both? Surely, that does not take up much more resources or time to support. By getting rid of the stylus keyboard, and having a finger based ui, from a cost standpoint, it would make sense to eliminate the stylus entirely.
PS. I can use/play with both liqbase and numpty physics with my finger? Numpty is a little harder, and more of a challenge, but certainly neither *require* a stylus to use.
I also apologize for any grammar, or spelling errors, or any run-on sentences, etc.
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2009-04-18
, 14:30
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#206
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Originally Posted by lemmyslender
Because the hardware keyboard sucks at certain type of data entry, (for example numbers), and on-screen keyboards are easier to customize for specific country/language needs. Them crazy people making latin alphabets with 35+ letters, what were they thinking !
The question is: If the next devices will have hardware keyboards why keep an on screen keyboard at all?
Gnumeric without a numpad (software or hardware) is murder. However, if the RX-51 is a dual slider with qwerty + numpad I take it all back, I swear !By getting rid of the stylus keyboard, and having a finger based ui, from a cost standpoint, it would make sense to eliminate the stylus entirely.
PS. I can use/play with both liqbase and numpty physics with my finger? Numpty is a little harder, and more of a challenge, but certainly neither *require* a stylus to use.
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2009-04-18
, 14:34
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Posts: 610 |
Thanked: 391 times |
Joined on Feb 2006
@ DC, USA
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#207
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Originally Posted by attila77
We ALL know that non-American, er, English speakers are inferior, anyway, right? Screw 'em all!!!! </sarcasm>
and on-screen keyboards are easier to customize for specific country/language needs.
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2009-04-18
, 22:00
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Posts: 968 |
Thanked: 974 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
@ Ohio
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#208
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Originally Posted by attila77
Precisely my point. The main reason you need an onscreen keyboard is VERSATILITY.
Because the hardware keyboard sucks at certain type of data entry, (for example numbers), and on-screen keyboards are easier to customize for specific country/language needs. Them crazy people making latin alphabets with 35+ letters, what were they thinking !
How exactly is redoing your complete UI paradigm in order to loose a 0.10$ component and the OSK cost saving factor ? I understand the urge to do it to make the thing more appealing to the mainstream which is currently in finger-frenzy, but certainly not as a cost cutting measure.
Typing your message did not *require* a keyboard either, but sure made it easier, right ?
By my count on my N800:
Finger keyboard: 38 keys, aproximately 66 characters (1/6 of the screen), you can't see where you are typing, have to hit a modifier key to switch between letters and numbers.
Stylus keyboard: 55 keys (includes numpad), aproximately 2/3 of the screen visible, and you can see where you are typing.
Both are best used with two hands.
In my humble opinion, the stylus keyboard lets you see where you are typing, has more keys available (particularly the number pad), which makes it more versatile (particularly for language or any other customization).
Why would you eliminate the more versatile of the two on screen keyboards? With the right tool it's pretty easy to use. Probably 1/2 my posts on here are made using it. The only reason to get rid of it would be if it were too difficult to use. Why would it be too difficult to use? If there were no stylus, it would be too difficult to use.
I'm not suggesting Nokia re-designed the UI to save a couple of cents by eliminating the stylus. I am suggesting that in order to force the UI to be finger friendly, it was designed with the idea that no stylus would be used/needed. Once that decision has been made, and the UI is completely usable without a stylus, why include one? Why not save $0.10 x (# of tablets)? If it isn't needed surely it is safe to eliminate?
If there is no stylus, gnumeric and a lot of other very useful programs are going to be annoying to use. It has already been shown that a device without a stylus can still sell a lot of units with a properly designed UI (iphone/itouch). Why then is it so ridiculous to suggest that one of the next tablets may not have a stylus, when one of the more useful/versatile stylus friendly features has been eliminated?
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2009-04-18
, 22:26
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Posts: 4,783 |
Thanked: 1,253 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ norway
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#209
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maybe its time someone had a look at getting some kind of replacement going, using the sdk, then? as i do not think nokia will bother doing so because of this thread...
Last edited by tso; 2009-04-18 at 22:29.
Last edited by tso; 2009-04-18 at 22:29.
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2009-04-18
, 22:28
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Posts: 610 |
Thanked: 391 times |
Joined on Feb 2006
@ DC, USA
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#210
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Originally Posted by lemmyslender
Because someone might write their own stylus-keyboard program, and then be kind enough to make it available to others. It is annoying as all heck to figure out where to store (and not lose) a stylus that doesn't have a convenient built-in dock in the device.
Why then is it so ridiculous to suggest that one of the next tablets may not have a stylus, when one of the more useful/versatile stylus friendly features has been eliminated?
Now, if you want to suggest building in the dock, but selling the styli as accessories, that is also an option.
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