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2009-12-19
, 14:59
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Banned |
Posts: 291 |
Thanked: 42 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#32
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Originally Posted by Dak
If you read carefully he did not refer to the N900 there but to Nokias in general.
If this article was written in August, what kind of dumb point did he think he was making with all that Central Park WiFi stat stuff?
Originally Posted by Dak
As you pointed out correctly the iPhone is for the mainstream market - people who want ultimate flawless polished ui experience. For that market you can't possibly sell the N900. People are just not that techsavvy.
He also doesn't understand the Open Source culture. Apple has great software people, sure...but they are tightly locked into Apple's Master Plan for the platform - this is also why the public app approval protocol is so restrictive.
Originally Posted by Dak
I agree with you on this one.
Nokia have changed the paradigm - build a great hardware platform, get a solid OS running on it, flesh it out with some generally useful apps, publish the SDK...and let the OSS community rip.
Originally Posted by Dak
I think that fragmentation is what prevented Linux to dethrone Windows for the last 20 years. It is simple: people don't like uncertainty and unpredictability. Apple will have the same problem to solve on their hands once newer apps won't run on earlier versions of the iPhone. Nokia otoh has much bigger challenge: the multitude of platforms.
Apple can't buy that level of participation. That's the secret underlying the linux explosion - something MS and Apple could never match...heck, Apple saw the light and capitalized on FreeBSD!
[/QUOTE]
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2009-12-19
, 15:03
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Posts: 87 |
Thanked: 88 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Beijing
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#33
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Originally Posted by OrangeBox
[/QUOTE]
Nokia otoh has much bigger challenge: the multitude of platforms.
what about Qt?
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2009-12-19
, 15:07
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Banned |
Posts: 291 |
Thanked: 42 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#34
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I think that what Nokia needs on the N900 is some killer apps. Something that can generate headlines. No, not Bounce Evolution or Documents to go. Something like the army can locate soldiers on the battlefield because they have the phone with them. Wait, that's just what came out for the iPhone.
Some apps like this could help to highlight not only the hardware superiority of some Nokias but the ability to capitalize on those by making good use of the hardware.
Also, if Nokia had some real interest in making this platform viable they could've built in automatic support to run earlier maemo version support. This is Nokias biggest weakness: not being backwards compatible.
Some apps like this could help to highlight not only the hardware superiority of some Nokias but the ability to capitalize on those by making good use of the hardware.
Also, if Nokia had some real interest in making this platform viable they could've built in automatic support to run earlier maemo version support. This is Nokias biggest weakness: not being backwards compatible.
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2009-12-19
, 15:15
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Posts: 337 |
Thanked: 283 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ NYC
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#35
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Originally Posted by OrangeBox
This is disgusting.
...some killer apps...
...Something like the army can locate soldiers on the battlefield because they have the phone with them. Wait, that's just what came out for the iPhone...
...making good use of the hardware...
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2009-12-19
, 15:25
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Posts: 91 |
Thanked: 38 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Copenhagen, Denmark
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#36
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To title of Post... NO he doesn't!!!
Originally Posted by OrangeBox
Good points:
1. the n900 is just another high end, early adopter, geek toy, and not a full out change in OS strategy and direction toward Linux - Eh what is the point he's trying to make!?
2. Apple has some of the tightest hardware and software integration ever seen in mass production consumer electronics of this class - What does that have to do with the n900!??
3. hardware, Nokia's special sauce, has become such a commodity now, that it is a race to the bottom on cost - Maybe my English skills are failing but I dont get what this is supposed to indicate...
4. for the foreseeable future, true value creation is in software and the sad truth is, Nokia simply does not have the software culture required to compete on the same level as players like Apple and Google - WHAT!!! They gave us Symbian a very solid OS (needs a revamp to be touch friendly... oh yeah and Maemo!!!)
5. Nokia is a hardware company that buys their software and they will be hard pressed to compete against Apple with this strategy. - I think you will find that Nokia is changing...
I have not held an n900 yetWHAT!!! then come back when you have... If you had you wouldn't have written all this garbage, but I have seen it in action on video and I will say this, it is about time Nokia got something right in this space. Not a bad video demo, I am impressed. However the only thing I ask is, what here is different from the iPhone or Android? Please tell me Nokia has more up its sleeve than a new touch gesture for zooming.
- Ha ha ha from that video ALL he got was the gesture for zooming!!! thats just sad!
Let's be fair, there are 3 things that differentiate the n900 from the industry benchmark the iPhone:
1) Keyboard: While "a nice to have", you quickly realize you don't use one as often once you get into using touch controls. Even the Nokia guy says in the above video "I don't type much". The introduction of touch gestures into the interface changes how users choose to do tasks.
- I use it ALL the friggin time... it is soo nice and I find myself sending lots of textmessages and e-mails (something I had almost stopped doing on my HTC touch HD... software keyboard just not the same...)
2) Backgound Apps: Apple does not allow background apps and probably won't till the next processor upgrade for 3 reasons:
- Apple!!?? eh so what!? No multitasking!? The jokes on them then :-P
- performance - The n900 has that!
- performance - The n900 has that!
- performance - The n900 has that!
__________________
Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
- Elbert Hubbard
Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
- Elbert Hubbard
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2009-12-19
, 15:43
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Posts: 91 |
Thanked: 38 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Copenhagen, Denmark
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#37
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Originally Posted by OrangeBox
1) Yeah some killer app... just till the other side hacks it and locates anemy soldiers who have their phone with them...
I think that what Nokia needs on the N900 is some killer apps. Something that can generate headlines. No, not Bounce Evolution or Documents to go. Something like the army can locate soldiers on the battlefield because they have the phone with them. Wait, that's just what came out for the iPhone.
Some apps like this could help to highlight not only the hardware superiority of some Nokias but the ability to capitalize on those by making good use of the hardware.
Also, if Nokia had some real interest in making this platform viable they could've built in automatic support to run earlier maemo version support. This is Nokias biggest weakness: not being backwards compatible.
(I very much doubt soldiers taking their iPhone with them to battle!)
2) The "killer app" of the n900 is Maemo5 and its open source... people will be able to make and/or port apps for a very looong time into the future... ohh that and the Python, Qt and [insert own stuff here]
3) Making it backwards compatible was what ultimateley went wrong with Symbian (Its a solid OS it has just been around for so long... and not getting the revamp to touch - but that will change come 2010) And if they're not carefull it will be what will slow down the "progress" of future iphones to come...
__________________
Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
- Elbert Hubbard
Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
- Elbert Hubbard
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2009-12-19
, 15:48
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#38
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iPhone hardware = Bottom up
NiT Hardware = Top down
How many "consumers" bought an original iPhone?
Then Apple released an iPhone 3G...
Now an iPhone 3Gs...
In order to increase storage from a 3Gs 16GB to 32GB, you need to buy a whole new phone.
Nokia on the other hand released the N800 with SDHC capabilities before SDHC cards were even available. Open access to N8**'s graphics accelerators is now coming so software that takes advantage of this and other "as shipped" features is still being developed for this almost 3 year old hardware.
Has anyone found any new uses for an original iPhone? Is the battery still able to hold a dang charge?
If a 2 TB memory card is ever available, theoretically you will be able to pop it in your N900 and rock on.
Apple would release a doubled GB increase of the same old phone just in time for the holidays, every year... for the next ten years.
...Unless consumers expect more.
Fortunately others will come up with devices that piss in the Apple Kool-Aid some folks are drinking and raise their expectations.
The N900 is a good start, IMHO.
Last edited by YoDude; 2009-12-19 at 15:53.
NiT Hardware = Top down
How many "consumers" bought an original iPhone?
Then Apple released an iPhone 3G...
Now an iPhone 3Gs...
In order to increase storage from a 3Gs 16GB to 32GB, you need to buy a whole new phone.
Nokia on the other hand released the N800 with SDHC capabilities before SDHC cards were even available. Open access to N8**'s graphics accelerators is now coming so software that takes advantage of this and other "as shipped" features is still being developed for this almost 3 year old hardware.
Has anyone found any new uses for an original iPhone? Is the battery still able to hold a dang charge?
If a 2 TB memory card is ever available, theoretically you will be able to pop it in your N900 and rock on.
Apple would release a doubled GB increase of the same old phone just in time for the holidays, every year... for the next ten years.
...Unless consumers expect more.
Fortunately others will come up with devices that piss in the Apple Kool-Aid some folks are drinking and raise their expectations.
The N900 is a good start, IMHO.
Last edited by YoDude; 2009-12-19 at 15:53.
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2009-12-19
, 16:40
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Posts: 124 |
Thanked: 213 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#39
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Originally Posted by OrangeBox
Fragmentation? Unix yes, linux no. That's why Unix is the walking dead, while linux is dominating the server marketspace...as for desktops? that's a different beast, as I'll get to....
I think that fragmentation is what prevented Linux to dethrone Windows for the last 20 years.
It is simple: people don't like uncertainty and unpredictability.
That kind of momentum is hard to stall. It took linux approx 10 years to gain commercial 'mind share', and now look at the inroads being made in the netbook market, as well as distros like Ubuntu. More PCs are offering linux as an option too.
The real hurdle for linux is 'consumer mindspace' - they (the public) have never known what it means to have a choice like this. Add to this the nonsense FUD spread by MS.....which, ironically, Apple is doing a sterling job of disproving, symbiotically benefitting linux - a common enemy strategy, of sorts
Apple will have the same problem to solve on their hands once newer apps won't run on earlier versions of the iPhone. Nokia otoh has much bigger challenge: the multitude of platforms.
Of course, Nokia's strategy is a risky gamble, but a calculated one....and I salute them for their vision. Time will tell. I wish them every success..
Last edited by Dak; 2009-12-19 at 21:43.
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2009-12-19
, 21:40
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#40
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I'm probably going to get flamed myself for saying this... but I do believe OrangeBox has handled himself and his arguments well. Maybe there's some history with him I don't understand or know.. but those that are calling him a troll and dismissing him I think are being over-reactive and childish.
However,
While many of the points you said were "good" points in the article OrangeBox were true to an extent, they are well known strong points of Apple and points that Apple does their best to capitalize on. But the problem is.. the guy in the article used the points completely inefficiently, using 1 point to provide "proof" or an argument for another point... but the two were completely un-related.
At no point did he successfully explain how or why Nokia is not standing up to Apple's success with Software, for example, because every argument he made against the Nokia NIT has be debunked several times in this thread. Thus, even his good points remain good points with no foundation... the article is a complete waste of blog-space.
As for the iPhone app to find Soldier... I was one (a Sailor actually) - I can assure you we didn't use our phones in the battle field like that. The government has specific hardware and software designed just for them that they use for that... specifically for the extemely high levels of cryptography that they use for that data (it's obviously not something you want the other 9 billion iphone users, including the enemy, to be able to just pull up and see.)
As for fragmentation holding back Linux, unlike Dak I do agree with that. Because there is such a variety of Linux systems, and every one having unique problems, it's not as focused as Windows or Mac. But unfortunately (or fortunately) that is exactly what the Linux community is about... options. However as Dak said.. this is mostly visible in the Desktop arena (with Gnome vs KDE vs XFCE vs Fluxbox(*box) vs WindowMaker vs LXDE vs...... etc.) but this is also shown on the OS itself as there is quite a few different so-called "standards" like the File-system Hierarchy Standard (FHS), but nobody really follows any of them and thus aren't really "standards" at all.
However, I think Linux (multiple Linux's) have reached the point where they are viable for end-user use. It's taken this long due to fragmentation but at this point I believe that has become a very small issue. The other thing holding Linux back is "Linux" doesn't have advertising or campaigns to promote people. You don't see a well-known actor dude on TV going:
"Hi, I'm Linux."
"Hi, I'm a Mac.. You will do exactly what I say when I say.. mwahaha"...
"Hi.. I'm a P..."
"Well, looks like PC froze again.."
"How DARE you speak without being spoken to, Linux?"
Etc. That is how Mac won it's share of the users was clever commercial campaigning. Another example of this is the Droid and the myTouch - two of the most well known Android phones primarily because of the heavy campaigning Verizon and T-mobile did for these phones. I have never seen an N900 commercial that I didn't look for myself and watch on Youtube.
Hardly anybody knows the G1, the Cliq, the Galaxy, or any of the other 12 different android phones because there is no commercials about them. Or they are few and far between. I hear the G1 called a "geeks" phone.. which is exactly what people call Linux.. and I believe this is solely because of ignorance and mis-spread rumors.
Last edited by fatalsaint; 2009-12-19 at 21:44.
However,
While many of the points you said were "good" points in the article OrangeBox were true to an extent, they are well known strong points of Apple and points that Apple does their best to capitalize on. But the problem is.. the guy in the article used the points completely inefficiently, using 1 point to provide "proof" or an argument for another point... but the two were completely un-related.
At no point did he successfully explain how or why Nokia is not standing up to Apple's success with Software, for example, because every argument he made against the Nokia NIT has be debunked several times in this thread. Thus, even his good points remain good points with no foundation... the article is a complete waste of blog-space.
As for the iPhone app to find Soldier... I was one (a Sailor actually) - I can assure you we didn't use our phones in the battle field like that. The government has specific hardware and software designed just for them that they use for that... specifically for the extemely high levels of cryptography that they use for that data (it's obviously not something you want the other 9 billion iphone users, including the enemy, to be able to just pull up and see.)
As for fragmentation holding back Linux, unlike Dak I do agree with that. Because there is such a variety of Linux systems, and every one having unique problems, it's not as focused as Windows or Mac. But unfortunately (or fortunately) that is exactly what the Linux community is about... options. However as Dak said.. this is mostly visible in the Desktop arena (with Gnome vs KDE vs XFCE vs Fluxbox(*box) vs WindowMaker vs LXDE vs...... etc.) but this is also shown on the OS itself as there is quite a few different so-called "standards" like the File-system Hierarchy Standard (FHS), but nobody really follows any of them and thus aren't really "standards" at all.
However, I think Linux (multiple Linux's) have reached the point where they are viable for end-user use. It's taken this long due to fragmentation but at this point I believe that has become a very small issue. The other thing holding Linux back is "Linux" doesn't have advertising or campaigns to promote people. You don't see a well-known actor dude on TV going:
"Hi, I'm Linux."
"Hi, I'm a Mac.. You will do exactly what I say when I say.. mwahaha"...
"Hi.. I'm a P..."
"Well, looks like PC froze again.."
"How DARE you speak without being spoken to, Linux?"
Etc. That is how Mac won it's share of the users was clever commercial campaigning. Another example of this is the Droid and the myTouch - two of the most well known Android phones primarily because of the heavy campaigning Verizon and T-mobile did for these phones. I have never seen an N900 commercial that I didn't look for myself and watch on Youtube.
Hardly anybody knows the G1, the Cliq, the Galaxy, or any of the other 12 different android phones because there is no commercials about them. Or they are few and far between. I hear the G1 called a "geeks" phone.. which is exactly what people call Linux.. and I believe this is solely because of ignorance and mis-spread rumors.
Last edited by fatalsaint; 2009-12-19 at 21:44.
Nokia might not have the competency of Apple in software, but they found a way to bridge that by going open source. Also providing a lot of developers for the now so hyped apps.
Nice business-model if you ask me