devu | # 271 | 2010-05-07, 05:52 | Report

I feel so bloody stupid and naive if all this speculations are true.
Why? because I bought the s**t when Adobe presented flash 10.1 on N900 7 months ago. If that was only marketing cheat from Nokia that's so big lie that supposed to end up in a court.

Hey! show to the world we can play Flash, because seems that every one is talking about it now. And we don't really care after sold out this prototype.

If you can't promise some features because of tech difficulties don't show it to the public and 7 month later tell as "not planned" because this is &#$^# big b***t and marketing lie. I am pretty sure there is something against consumer rights here.

Also when I am reading this forum from 1 month I know my opinion is worth nothing here since I am dump flash developer (read: artist who pretend to be programmer) but I believe big numbers of programmers here wish that Flash will never happen on N900. Flash vs Linux vs HTML5 vs iPhone who next?

But I am pretty sure here is big numbers of N900 owners because they bought this promise same as me. Nokia, a lie has short legs!

HellFlyer | # 272 | 2010-05-07, 06:07 | Report

True and you know what? I'm really looking forward to the day when so called hacker edition software updates become available for N900. Eventually N900 will drop its price and become "outdated" according to Nokia.
When a lot of people will start to buy it and some talented people will either port MeeGo 2.0 (or whatever will be there) or they will find a way to add flash 10.1 to N900

Think what you want but IMHO Maemo 5 is the best OS ever

kaz911 | # 273 | 2010-05-07, 06:30 | Report

I think if any one of you would put a watt-meter on your computer when looking at flash enabled pages it would scare you.

And GPU acceleration does not help the watt usage.

Flash can be good for some things. But developers should make sure to have a timeout - so after x min of inactivity the animation stops or webbrowser window out of focus - then all flash should stop.

On my notebook (QX9300 based quad core) accidentally leaving the browser on a flash enabled pages decreases battery time by anywhere from 30-60% in Google Chrome and IE.

So what will that do to your true multitasking N900 handset?

On my 6 core i980 - wattage goes from 120watt to 190 watt when browser is on a page with flash adverts only - and that is with GPU acceleration.

So flash is not green for anyone else than Adobe....

I agree that flash is kind of unavoidable - but please developers - think about your consumers and make your apps easy as possible on the consumers power consumption.

So im in NO hurry to get better flash or even have flash on a mobile device like N900 that already suffers from bad battery life.

devu | # 274 | 2010-05-07, 06:48 | Report

Go there Flaemo and check your performance compare to 80% apps here perform better in terms of battery life. There is a lot of room to improve yet. Transitions, blur, transparency can also be an option only.

Go there to understand a bit more political reasons why some platforms slowing down flash really and why pushing html5 idea forward.

Oh! and check your processor consumption when you scrolling down the page on that blog! This is text in html only right?

I'm tired....

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Last edited by devu; 2010-05-07 at 07:06. Reason: typo

digital909 | # 275 | 2010-05-07, 06:48 | Report

I had my first non-displaying flash page last night. If there really is no 10.1 then I am one p*ssed off punter. Hacking is all good, but the basic functionality of the flash browser needs to be supported. I feel ripped off big time.

zwer | # 276 | 2010-05-07, 09:22 | Report

Still waiting for my drones to dig up some info - all I've got for now is from one member of the FP dev team (desktop branch) is that there were no official strategy changes within Adobe in the past 2 months, which indicates that either the potential support for Maemo was dropped much earlier, or that something happened on the business side between Nokia and Adobe, or within Nokia itself. However, that is nothing more than a speculation. The only solid info I still have is that both Maemo and webOS versions were quite ready (from the technology point of view) months ago and that the Android support was what was holding down 10.1 release for mobiles, what changed in the meantime and why you get lately only Android mentioned in Adobes' press releases still eludes me...

Except that the most work done here is at Adobes' side - Nokia would essentially only have to distribute it within some of the future updates. Plugin wrappers and framebuffer renders are directly portable from any given Linux version of the plugin, so Adobe only had to change the core - AVM2 and graphics handling (incl. video rendering). The VM part is essentially the same across all mobile platforms based on ARMv7, so they would have to do that either way; the second part can be a combined effort of the plugin they are already developing for the Linux as the both boil down to the X Window System and its core gfx libs, while the HW acceleration is the same deal with maybe a slightly different packaging for all OMAP 3430 platforms (and Motorola Droid and Palm Pre both use the same). So, developing a Maemo plugin is certainly not a money waster given that they would do most of the work either way.

Further, Maemo 6/Harmattan/MeeGo are essentially the same platform from the Adobes' point of view, and if the upcoming device from Nokia will be indeed based on the OMAP 3430 SoC, the plugins should be compatible on the byte level w/o even need to recompile. Which only strengthens my belief that if N900 is not getting the 10.1 - it's a business/marketing decision.

If you were to put a watt-meter on a HTML/JS page that does the same that a Flash page does (of course, HTML/JS combo, even in the full-HTML5 draft support flavor which doesn't even exist yet, cannot actually do many of the things Flash does routinely) you would be not scared, but terrified! No JS VM comes even close at instructions/watt performance of AVM2. Flash, when used properly, is far more efficient than any HTML/JS implementation out there.

It does, and in a huge way at that. CPUs (at least in CISC flavor) are jack of all trades but master of none, GPUs can do much less than your average CPU can, but what they do, they do far more efficiently. One of those things is complex number crunching which is really important for things like video decoding, encryption and, of course, 3D rendering and composition (well, anything that has to manipulate a large number of pixels). If you leave the decoding to GPU, you would waste far less watts per video frame than if CPU would do that. Even vector gfx processing can benefit from GPU acceleration as it also boils down to complex math.

So, you are blaming the technology for the faults of developers using that technology. You can build a processor hog in pretty much any executable language, that doesn't say anything about the platform/language, but says a lot about the developer. If Flash was to disappear/become replaced by HTML5/JS combo, where do you think those bad developers would go? That's right - they'll switch to even more inefficient technology and make you a living hell of web experience - now you can at least disable the plugin and you can easily block those obtrusive adds, just wait for the day where you would need to build a CPU-hogging ad blocker that targets only specific parts of the DOM and JS - to stop CPU-hogging ads...

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Last edited by zwer; 2010-05-07 at 09:24.

devu | # 277 | 2010-05-07, 12:04 | Report

I would like to thank you twice, but there is no such option available

Really, this whole party here need more people like you. With solid experience and not dinosaur habit like most of old-school guys unfortunately have. And I bet you are this kind of person that prefer to try something before give some opinion.

I'm trying to get some info from flash community as well but for now I can only confirm your assumptions. Maemo is sinking Flash 10.1 too, only because of marketing decisions. The only hope is while n900 is good device itself somebody find a way how to put some useful stuff here.

For now situation looks like we end up with outdated Flash 9 and when flash 10.1 will show up the only thing we can see it's blank screen. iPhone users are in better positions because they have some cool blue lego instead

Only one thing I can't really get is leaked PR 1.2 has new flash 9 version to compare to 1.1.1 and also I founded .so files of it. They had to play around it intentionally... for now I see LOWER performance of Flash. If this is true they will even kill us more with 1.2...

Edit:
Yeap

Previously my performance monitor in Flaemo showed me 24fps when sliding desktop slowed down (in worst case scenario) to 19.

Now 9... In this case I can even personally recommend you forget about Flaemo on your N900

They treating us like idiots really...

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Last edited by devu; 2010-05-07 at 12:14.

Rushmore | # 278 | 2010-05-07, 14:19 | Report

If you go by Nokia's CEO and his recent statements to investors:

"We are focussing on the Symbian OS and putting it in as many devices as possible". Sounds to me they are off in another direction again.

A lot of you folks here ROCK, but were it not for the N900's great hardware, my view of Nokia is less than good. Nokia seems to flutter in the wind and go in the direction the wind does. No clear focus at all and seems they rely on their huge size of "current" marketshare, which does NOT take into account retired devices. My guess is their active install base is erroding due to the lack of focus.

BTW, people saying that Flash 10.1 is not that great, did you have the same view when Nokia mislead us to imply we were getting it?

N900 hardware rocks, but (IMO) Nokia does not.

devu | # 279 | 2010-05-10, 17:15 | Report

Get the info about holy war from the source

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBzVGWWpZAw

Its about HTML vs Flash
What Flash 10.1 will be
And freedom of choice

Rushmore | # 280 | 2010-05-11, 12:47 | Report

Whoever posted that Flash 10.1 will not help much compared to 9.4 is as wrong as one can respectfully get. Here is a recent video some very complex Flash sites running very smoothly on the 550mhz clocked Moto Droid. Try running these on the N900 and then make the statement that Flash 10.1 is not a big deal (in regards to content performance). If there was EVER a device that should get Flash 10.1, it is the N900. Complete input options to take advantage of content. Stylus is very handy. Only device that will come close to N900 for using content (due to keyboard) is the Droid.

http://www.androidcentral.com/androi...ideo-nexus-one

Google employees are being given Moto Droids with Flash 10.1 & an early release of 2.2 Android OS.

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Last edited by Rushmore; 2010-05-11 at 12:50.