krisse | # 71 | 2010-01-07, 18:04 | Report

You said Peugeot forum. Peugeot is a manufacturer.

Maemo.org is not a Nokia forum.


I sure as hell wouldn't contact some open source community that isn't run by Peugeot.

It would be like breaking down in a forest and posting on some general car forum devoted to discussing components that are used on certain Peugeot models... what would be the point?

If a product doesn't work you complain to the manufacturer and/or retailer. Maemo.org is not a manufacturer, nor is it a retailer.

RevdKathy | # 72 | 2010-01-07, 18:05 | Report

If I bought a car and the radio didn't work, I'd take it back to the supplier, not go to a forum at all. I'd expect the supplier to fix it. A number of people have had genuinely faulty devices and have returned them for replacement.

If I bought a car and the radio turned out to be exactly what was advertised and not include a whole load of things I has just assumed were included (despite there being information available telling me what was or wasn't included) I'd probably feel a bit aggreived, but in my complaining I would take responsibility for not having done my research properly. If I had been mis-informed by my supplier, I'd be mad at them, not the manufacturer nor other users. If I'd been inclined to read what I wanted to see (say, making a 'hoped for' date into a 'promise') I'd take responsibility for deceiving myself.

If I bought a car and found the radio was lacking features I wanted and I could get access to the people who actually made (and could improve) the radio (even improve the one I'm using!) I would not jump in yelling "You guys are failures! The radio sucks!" as I would not expect that approach to to be very productive. I might say "The radio is good as far as it goes, but for my best use it would be really great if it could have this or that feature: is there any chance of you doing that?"

And if the reply was "No, we won't be adding that because you're the only one who wants it" then I'd have to accept the sad realities of democracy. My government spends my money on things I never use, too.

Ultimately, there's something about the tone of a post that distinguishes it. Most of the people working on software and firmware are not professionals who get paid to be yelled at. They're volunteers who do it purely for the love and fun (and maybe a bit of karma). They don't deserve to be ranted at.

Certainly the people who have no problems with the device need to be careful about being too much like Pollyanna. (Yes, I'm one of them and eternally grateful that My Mo is stable and faultless so far) We need to make sure we don't just dismiss people with problems just because we don't have those issues. But even with a profesional, paid customer service you will get a far, far better response with politeness than ranting.

Texrat | # 73 | 2010-01-07, 18:05 | Report

You're missing krisse's point and proving it at the same time.

This is a volunteer community. It is supported by Nokia, visited by a handful of Nokia employees, but we the community run and serve it. That's important to consider in who has what "rights" here, and I don't think you're giving that due consideration.

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Last edited by Texrat; 2010-01-07 at 18:15.

Texrat | # 74 | 2010-01-07, 18:12 | Report

Let's get something else straight, too, while we're at this: anyone who exhibits any sort of favor toward Maemo/N900/etc by a member here is (mis)labeled "fanboi" or other such juvenile derogatory term by certain posters, and such a tactic is designed solely to derail legitimate dialog and stir up trouble. There is nothing constructive about it.

The politics of extemism, regardless of fora or subject, are counterproductive and wrought of ignorance. Anyone who tries to arbitrarily force an issue toward an extreme is unworthy of consideration IMO... and this forum is filling up too fast with such people.

I'll surely take heat as a council rep for such remarks, but I represent the true community-- not malcontented interlopers with ulterior, destructive agendas.

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Last edited by Texrat; 2010-01-07 at 18:23.

volt | # 75 | 2010-01-07, 18:15 | Report

Yes, I said I was torn on the issue. I am pointing out a small thingie from the whole of the image. A flaw maybe, in the more constructive members, where there are other members that are all flaws with a hint of accidental insight once a month.

I don't believe in banning people unless you really have to. Some people needs to be banned sometimes. But not for being overly critical, stubborn, single minded, impolite within acceptable limits, etc.

Clearly these people do not contribute to this forum like I do, and I do not contribute like you to, and maybe you don't like qwerty does. But it's not an invite-only forum.

This isn't a *thou shall cast the first stone who...* point I try to make... I just observe that people expect things they cannot have in a public forum.

Texrat | # 76 | 2010-01-07, 18:17 | Report

Agreed 100%, and I haven't seen anyone suggest any such extreme, so not sure where that comes from...?

volt | # 77 | 2010-01-07, 18:20 | Report

I used a car forum, because of www.civicforums.com.
It is, as far as I know, not a Honda controlled forum, so it is directly relevant to maemo.org. And my coworkers who do have Honda Civics, do indeed go there to read about flaws, solutions, or vent. Just like here.

C'est la vie.

Calling a manufacturer is, as you've probably experienced yourself, not always the most rewarding 30 minute wait 5 minute talk. People tend to need these forums.

Texrat | # 78 | 2010-01-07, 18:22 | Report

Very true! But they also need to have proper perspective when engaging members of such a forum.

fatalsaint | # 79 | 2010-01-07, 18:24 | Report

Which is fine.. but we don't need them to be argumentative, negative, childish, flagrant, or immature.

There is a place for community forums.. they are my preference to manufacturers as well. But because it's a community forum people should understand that the other person on the other end of the computer is just average joe like you and me. It's not a nokia rep, not a maemo OS dev, not on company dime. (the person could HAPPEN to work for nokia, or designed Maemo, but their job is not these forums.) As such, people should be spoken to with respect, and if you feel the need to rant then fine: But clearly state in your post that you are ranting because you're frustrated.. and refrain from calling anyone else, or the community, stupid and egotistical.

A rant about something generic or annoying is one thing... a rant at something or someone specific is entirely different.

ETA: And once you vet your frustration.. leave it at that. It's out there. Don't feel the need to repetitively post the exact same complaints in every thread even remotely related to an N900 because yours has the problem XYZ.

volt | # 80 | 2010-01-07, 18:29 | Report

Well, you guys are blatantly ignoring my main point too

This is a public forum, and clearly the best forum for N900 owners. N900 owners WILL come here to vent.

Expecting more of the new members than that is unreasonable expectations. Unreasonable because that's just not how the real world works. In the real world, angry people [who like to put words on the intarwebs] look up a place to vent. This really is the best N900 forum. N900 owners will come here.

Expecting them to stop acting like they act, that's the unreasonable part. That this forum (fantastic as it may be) is volunteer driven and may not actually fix their problems while Nokia might, is, frankly, irrelevant for this "internet migration".