naturegodtm | # 231 | 2010-07-28, 20:41 | Report

hawii **** off for making us happy at first and then proving that the whole project was f*** lie . gtfo

naturegodtm | # 232 | 2010-07-28, 20:53 | Report

as someone else mentioned before, u own us cause u were the one who announced and promise in the first place

u gave us nothing so why can donate and contribute. Perhaps u made some self discussions. u lack of communication and marketing abilities.

i wanted to donate and help when suddenly i read these bad news u caught us offgard.

i hope things will change again. so we can show our support as a community

---

Last edited by naturegodtm; 2010-07-28 at 21:13.

hawaii | # 233 | 2010-07-28, 22:12 | Report

Showing support isn't only about donating. It's the exact opposite of what this thread has become. You've all gone from being excited and filled with discussion, to *****ing and moaning about a postponed release when you yourselves have done *nothing whatsoever* to aid in the project.

You all want the bread, but don't want to help make it.

naturegodtm | # 234 | 2010-07-29, 01:57 | Report

at least i hope it is only postponed and that this project isnt going to die. some days ago u announced an close upcoming release . Where is it mentioned that a release is only to be delayed. the main developer and u are dissapointed by our support (wich u never asked) impling that the project might die . our frustration normal...


plz tell me how and i will help , i realy want this project to happen

---

Last edited by naturegodtm; 2010-07-29 at 02:11.

appnss | # 235 | 2010-07-29, 02:08 | Report

First, and with all due respect, I have to ask if you can speak for NeoPwn.

My doubt comes from the clear inconsistencies between

and some of yours postings, for example:

Anyway, considering all the posted missinformation about the project I supposse inconsistencies are very reasonable. So, if you can, why don't you just explain what sort of support you guys need? Porting apps? Great, which ones are left to do? Integration of the tools? GUIs?... What?

I have only read about a "proper installer", ok, that's something I (and I am sure many others too) could help with. There's not much information about the current real state of the project, but from what I can supposse what you would need is an installer of the image file that also carries some smart configuration and integration with the underlaying maemo OS, isn't it? There must be some conmplexities for sure, or otherwise It would be a simple matter of a couple hours of good old shell scripting.

But if you don't tell, if you don't even tell that there's some help needed/welcomed how do you expect anything to come?

And no, its not the same as expecting something that has been ANNOUNCED/PROMISED, but unlike others I don't think NeoPwn owes anyone ANYTHING.

If I had came here announcing the same, without giving any proof, everybody would have just laugh and call it Vaporware (or worse), and nothing else had happenned.

But when someone who has a known credibility does, people have a natural tendency to trust because that someone is risking that credibility... so it must be true.

In the end, its just credibility lost, but again nothing else owed.

And here is where the real nonsense is... All this was a predecible sequence of events in which NeoPwn had nothing to gain.

And the excuses given add to that nonsense because it just doesn't make sense with the previous sequence of events (complaining about unrequested support, long undetermined new deadline when the previous one was announced very shortly before defaulting, keep on the line of NOT REQUESTING nor giving the POSSIBILITY to support the project in any specific way, etc.... just excuses and complaints...).

When you keep working on a project for several months, and you announce that it is almost finished for beta testing and give a deadline in just a couple of weeks, and also keep saying everything is going perfect during that time, don't come the "big day" and make up a bunch of absurdities you should already have noticed LOOOOOOONG time ago if these were the true reasons.

Also, it is not very wise to blame others absolutely unaware of the behind the scenes troubles for your fault.

I am sorry if in the 20 days I have had my N900 I haven't been able to offer anything useful... I don't even know if I ever will, in spite of my intentions. Anyway, I haven't announced/promised anything either, with or without INTENTIONALLY creating any great expectations at all.

Now, I supposse I should feel bad myself for just expressing my surprise and dissapoinment for something I took for granted. And no, it's not NeoPwn project itself, it was mainly the big announcement about packet injection on n900 had been achieved.

And now, after all this nonsense I have my concerns mostly about that point.

From your postings it seems that you have been closely involved somehow with NeoPwn project, and also that at this time you feel that all the bunch of beggers don't deserve it.

Fair to me... But I have just one question: Have you PERSONALLY confirmed the existance of a properly working packet injection driver for wl1251 on N900?

I don't request ANY proofs, a simple answer from you would suffice to me.

Why? Because apart from radically differing with you in my opinion about all this matter, I have to say that some of your posts and blog entries have been very ilustrating to me and for that I have to give you my thanks and credibility.

Hotshot | # 236 | 2010-07-29, 02:11 | Report

Really? I think people beating the death horse thing about not supporting. Bottomline is he didn't ask for help nor requested he need more donations. So ask not won't not. People can't hear what you don't say. Not matter how rude people think crashanddie post is that post pretty much was 100 on most points. In the short time I've been on this forum I've seen some serious apps that made my mouth watered that I would'nt even dream of on a winmo site. We have great people and support so if he want help here it is neopwn choice to use it or not. But please all the brown nosing posts about people not wanting to help when help was not requested is like saying New Orleans waited a week before they said hey FEMA we need some help rebuilding our city. So one or two things will happen neopwn will come and post asking for help with this project or he will continue working alone on his own time. Those people are the only choice out there right now. So live with it cause I sure have. And thanks neopwn for making it this far with your software.

hawaii | # 237 | 2010-07-29, 03:06 | Report

@appnss; I do not speak for NeoPwn, BackTrack or ANY affiliate organizations. This is my personal opinion only.

The project is continuing, but as I said and the developer re-iterated in his post, there are many other things that take precedence - work and family, among other things. It's a side project.

From what I knew, it was a project than went from a few developers (with OpenMoko) to getting backed by the BackTrack team and then as things progressed, the poster 'neopwn' had to dig up and take over the work. These guys are real people, who have full time jobs, families and other responsibilities. You can't honestly expect him to go full-steam and producing a side-hobby for what is clearly a lot of ingrates who can't really begin to understand the scope of this project.

As for "promising and not delivering" - when exactly did a promise of a public release go out? Did an announcement take place about a specific date it would be released to the public? Did the developer completely halt the project? Is the developer not RIGHT HERE giving his reasons and an explanation for any delay?

Yet you're still here, berating the efforts to create a MOBILE PENETRATION TESTING DISTRIBUTION FOR YOUR PHONE because it's not as fast as you want it to be.

I'd also like to ask, since the majority of you clearly don't have the skills to even assist in the upstart of such a project - what exactly do you need this distribution for? The packages that come with the distribution are freely available for you to get running on your own hardware. You can compiling something, right?

hawaii | # 238 | 2010-07-29, 03:15 | Report

Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate it and glad my blog and posts were of use to you.

I, personally, have not used the wl12xx driver that allows live frame injection. However, I can safely stake my "reputation" behind my word, that it does exist. I have a sneaking suspicious on who wrote it. And if you doubt the the possibility of its existence - I urge you to take a look at the 50+ RFMON+injection diffs located @ http://patches.aircrack-ng.org/. I can actually remember back in the day when only one chipset had RF monitor mode, specific drivers and tertiary firmware were required to make it work. Now it's stack-controlled and it takes 30 lines of code to allow injection without association. I've been around the block.

lxp | # 239 | 2010-07-29, 03:21 | Report

I can prove you 100% that packet injection is working with wl1251. You may know that I have developed the monitor mode patches for wl1251. Some time ago Neopwn asked me to develop packet injection patches for Backtrack Mobile, which I have done at least of my knowledge successfully. There may be some testing and cleanup needed, but the basics are working pretty well.
My current intention is to get a full-featured upstream wl1251 driver in the linux kernel, so compat-wireless can be used as full replacement. Currently it lacks some features which are included in the Maemo Fremantle version.
I also want to note that I am currently not in the position to give anyone access to the packet injection capable driver, because I developed it exclusively for Neopwn.
Furthermore I have recently talked to Neopwn and he is currently working to reorganize the project so he can accept contributions, but that will need some time.

appnss | # 240 | 2010-07-29, 04:24 | Report

If I were a kernel hacker (which I am NOT) I probably wouldn't even have any doubts about the packet injection matter, but I also do remember the not-so-far days when it wasn't possible for wrt54's broadcoms and at least it was still considered unfeasible long after I had switched to atheros platform.

So please understand my concerns after I took that for granted (not really caring if after some longer wait for public release) for the perfect platform I found on N900 and then all this weird situation happens.

I have to thank you again, this time for clearing this out.

I still consider NeoPwn have dealt very wrong with all this situation, but mostly at his cost more than anyone else, which is a pitty considering he probably have already spent a lot of effort on this project.

After failing a big announcement, a negative reaction SHOULD be expected no matter what the cause is, and even more if the excuses sound unreasonable at first instance. Ignoring that, is wanting to feel like the world is against you with no reason, which I think leaves you an even worse feeling than just accepting the LOGICAL reaction and coping with it.

At this point, considering the project is feasible, I would say that any change of approach would be preferable than a dead end, no matter if it means request for specific help, make it commercial app, free with premium paid features, whatever... Sadly, I don't think donations will have any success right now.... perhaps later....

Glad to hear the project is still REALLY alive (which wasn't so clear, as it sounded more as a delayed dead end) and that packet injection will be possible probably more sooner than later. It's more than enough for me.

And again, If there's some help needed I hope NeoPwn isn't afraid of asking even if he decides to make his project somewhat commercial... After seeing what happenned with nessus and still using it, I don't think it really matters at all.