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2010-03-03 , 16:46
Posts: 1,217 | Thanked: 446 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Bedfordshire, UK
#201
Originally Posted by Bratag View Post
...
I would quite happily produce every single line of code I write for free if someone will come up with a system where I am provided with the necessities required for living and maintaining my current lifestyle. Until that happens my time and my experience and valuable commodities, no different than a doctors or carpenters or any other service profession.
If you do find that one out then please let me know - I'd love to work on just the stuff I felt like doing too. Funny how people forget the investment in skills and experience!
 
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2010-03-03 , 16:47
Posts: 1,217 | Thanked: 446 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Bedfordshire, UK
#202
Originally Posted by azorni View Post
I was an employee, I wasn't in charge of infrastructure choices. And using proprietary software was one reason for me to resign and to go somewhere else. Did I say I've never used retail software ? If so, my mistake.
I applaud your conviction in resigning and going somewhere else, that is a great sentiment to hold to convictions like that.
 
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2010-03-03 , 16:50
Posts: 1,217 | Thanked: 446 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Bedfordshire, UK
#203
Originally Posted by ewan View Post
From both sides though. The attitude of the anti-freedom folks (It's MY software, my PRECIOUSSSS) is just as selfish and lacking in empathy.
Why is it lacking in empathy to provide something in return for services rendered? This is basically how the world owrks when there are specialist. If not then everyone would be responsible for grown and harvesting their own food, providing for other creature comforts too and this debate wouldn't be happening in the first place.

If you want something then either provide it for yourself or recompense someone that has provided that service for you. I'm not saying that you can't innovate yourself but respect the wishes of the originator in the first place. If their work isn't worth the price they charge then it won't sell, simple.
 
attila77 is offline attila77
2010-03-03 , 16:50
Posts: 3,319 | Thanked: 5,610 times | Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland
#204
Originally Posted by Bratag View Post
Yes and who do you think writes that opensource/free alternatives? In almost every case its a developer or group of developers who have other jobs which support them and an amount of free time. If they were to lose that job that supported them don't you think it would be acceptable for them to get something out of the project they so diligently supported for free for so long?
Let's not mix the terms 'business model' and 'copyright' here. There are plenty of open source developers who are paid full-time to work on Free software (for example most linux kernel developers). Whether a project is Open Source has no bearing on piracy/copyright - Free software would not exist without the same rules that make commercial software possible, it's just that developers making a living from them employ different business models depending whether it's OSS or a classic commercial app. The question is whether you play by the rules or you don't (=act first, rationalize later, regardless of agreements, laws, etc). Open Source does NOT change that in any way. It is just as illegal (even if it's rarely called piracy) for a company or other people to use Open Source Software in ways not compliant with their licenses.
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azorni is offline azorni
2010-03-03 , 16:50
Posts: 16 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Paris, France
#205
Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
I applaud your conviction in resigning and going somewhere else, that is a great sentiment to hold to convictions like that.
Well, you can applaude twice, because I did that twice.
 
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2010-03-03 , 16:55
Posts: 733 | Thanked: 991 times | Joined on Dec 2008
#206
Originally Posted by ewan View Post
From both sides though. The attitude of the anti-freedom folks (It's MY software, my PRECIOUSSSS) is just as selfish and lacking in empathy.
I still don't see why I am supposed to give away for free something I worked on hard to create.

I could give it away, and that is fine. Or I could charge for it, and that is fine too. It is my decision, and the decision of the people that decide to use or not use my software.
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2010-03-03 , 16:55
Posts: 1,217 | Thanked: 446 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Bedfordshire, UK
#207
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
You tell me.. why is there so many free alternatives to 1000's of commercial software...

And so few alternative to decent, good games?

I do actually know how to code here.. and writing a production or office software is *not* as difficult as writing a game. Opening, closing, editing, etc.. on files is simple and straight forward. I'm not saying they don't deserve to be compensated, just that there is aspects games have that are not in commercial software (assuming we are separating the terms "games" and "commercial").

Games have a story line, usually a very in depth story line that includes writers, story-board stuff etc.. and also 3D intensive graphics which require artists and other people. These aspects are not in your average commercial software.

There *may* be graphic designers.. whose job it is to design that cute little "e" that swirls around when a page loads.. but nobody can tell me a full 3D sprite of a zombie including dripping blood is exactly equal to a swirling "e".
I am a technical director of, amongst other things, a reasonably sized games company (80+ employees) so I think I know what is involved in the production. I also have another company producing commerical software. The aspects that are often not understood by the larger world is the QA and interaction requirements of commercial software - if your game crashes then you are rightly annoyed, but if your commercial software crashes and you loose business then the results are more important to you.

Commercial software requires graphic artists too if they have a GUI and also a serious amount of 'storyboarding' around the typical use of an application by end users.

Game software can also often get away with unsupported techniques (banging the metal) when commercial software has to play nicely and also work with upgrades in the underlying operating system too. game software also tends to be single use and then a sequel carries forward only library code if relevant. Backwards compatibility with the previous incarnation is not expected - would you expect to load the saved game file from a previous release? All of these issues have to be accoutned for.
 
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2010-03-03 , 16:57
Posts: 1,217 | Thanked: 446 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Bedfordshire, UK
#208
Originally Posted by azorni View Post
And that's exactly what I was saying initially : you develop some software using protocols and tools that have been freely given to you, and yet you want to charge people for it. Even if I consider this is your right, according to me this is a shame.
The charge is for the implimentation of the protocol. If you find a free alternate that does the same thing then you are free to use it. The creation of the implimentation is not always a simple thing and takes time. You are paying for the skills and experience of the developers involved in doing this.
 
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2010-03-03 , 17:01
Posts: 1,217 | Thanked: 446 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Bedfordshire, UK
#209
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
This argument is fundamentally flawed ...They make money on support, and contracts... not the sell of software.
This might work for software that is a service model such as OS but not for applications that are one off hits. If it did then the commercial model would have shifted already. I would have loved to move to a peruse or subscription model years ago but I can't guarrantee that I would get payment as so many people are after getting something for free.

the other point you are missing here is that I can't see the average user in the street paying for a support contract for all software that they want to use. If you can find a method for ensuring that then I suspect the entire software development community would be beating a path to your door for the solution (which you would obviously provide for free)
 
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2010-03-03 , 17:01
Posts: 4,384 | Thanked: 5,524 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
#210
Heh, somehow that reminds me of Trumpet Winsock.
Back then, network stack was peddled as shareware...
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