Steve Jobs on open vs closed - Page 3 - maemo.org

richwhite | # 21 | 2010-10-19, 15:29 | Report

Originally Posted by Lullen View Post

Is there any way that could make meego not ending up fragmented or will it have the same problems as android as there is no solution to it?

Probably the biggest problem with Android's fragmentation is that Google is a jack of all trades. Nokia haven't got a search engine and a car that drives itself, Google do. They're like the cuckoos of the technological world - wait for companies to make a profit from something, then try to usurp it. Where is their experience in mobile computing?

nokia, on the other hand, are well versed in it. Symbian wasn't fragmented despite appearing on various manufacturers' devices. Windows isn't fragmented, it has its issues and for sure some of those could be resolved if it made its own hardware, as Mac's demonstrate, but it isn't fragmented. For instance, Windows on a computer with a decent amount of RAM and antivirus should pose no problems ( it doesn't for me anyway).

What i'm getting at is something being available on multiple devices doesn't intrinsically make it fragmented. It will need specific hardware to run at an optimum level for sure, but that's why Nokia are keeping Symbian for its low-mid level phones and MeeGo for the high-end, so we won't have something like the HTC Wildfire running a crippled version of MeeGo. I'm probably in the minority, but while the blogs and anti's of Nokia criticise them for not exclusively having Maemo or MeeGo, I agree with the decision for the above reason - hopefully only the premium devices with the ideal hardware capabilities will run it, while the lower spectrum devices will have the very adaptable Symbian.

So, while mobile phones is Nokia's business and they've been top of the tree for a long, long time and they know what they're doing generally, Google are new to the game and learning on their feet. HTC churn out a new device each week it seems and there are variances in hardware specs (X10 mini, Wildfire etc). Add to that the issues in not rolling out universal updates even on brand new handsets, that's where Android has its problems.

Then again, has there been mention that other manufacturers will have MeeGo? I know it's been said it'll be a cross platform OS and BMW, Asus etc will have it in their in-car entertainment, but i haven't seen anything that, say, Motorola can release a MeeGo phone. I hope not personally.

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richwhite | # 22 | 2010-10-19, 15:32 | Report

Originally Posted by ysss View Post

Can't be too subtle can I?
Where does it specifically say open and closed source?
Is there only 1 interpretation to the terms 'open' vs 'closed' in the context of platforms?

Even google (forgot whom) alluded to themselves as 'more open than ios', without any specifics.

Well presumably the assumption is he's talking about open and closed source because he has made the same attacks, specifically on source, before.

fatalsaint | # 23 | 2010-10-19, 15:36 | Report

I'm not sure I get all this negativity surrounding Android or it's "fragmentation" (not exactly sure I'd call Android 'fragmented'.. but.. ok..) .. Android is Pretty damn successful and despite what Mr. Jobs wants you to think, is sure making that oh so perfect "integrated" Apple platform work damn hard for it's money

Originally Posted by

"We believe integrated will trump fragmented every time."

Well.. what you believe, and what's happening, aren't exactly matching up there Mr. Rich dude.

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wmarone | # 24 | 2010-10-19, 15:36 | Report

Originally Posted by richwhite View Post

They're like the cuckoos of the technological world - wait for companies to make a profit from something, then try to usurp it. Where is their experience in mobile computing?

Wait, I thought that was Apple?

Google does whatever they need to remain relevant. They saw where mobile was going and moved. Mobile computing isn't terribly different from regular computing, so long as you approach it right (which Microsoft failed miserably at.)

Originally Posted by

nokia, on the other hand, are well versed in it. Symbian wasn't fragmented despite appearing on various manufacturers' devices.

IIRC, it was wildly fragmented. The catch is that many fragments couldn't run additional software at all.

Originally Posted by

Windows isn't fragmented, it has its issues and for sure some of those could be resolved if it made its own hardware, as Mac's demonstrate, but it isn't fragmented. For instance, Windows on a computer with a decent amount of RAM and antivirus should pose no problems ( it doesn't for me anyway).

Fragmentation in Windows was worse, and with varying hardware specs makes development of games something more difficult than what it is for consoles.

Originally Posted by

It will need specific hardware to run at an optimum level for sure, but that's why Nokia are keeping Symbian for its low-mid level phones and MeeGo for the high-end, so we won't have something like the HTC Wildfire running a crippled version of MeeGo.

We still could, since Nokia has no monopoly on MeeGo.

Originally Posted by

Google are new to the game and learning on their feet. HTC churn out a new device each week it seems and there are variances in hardware specs (X10 mini, Wildfire etc). Add to that the issues in not rolling out universal updates even on brand new handsets, that's where Android has its problems.

Android's core problem is the carriers, followed by the handset vendors.

Originally Posted by

Then again, has there been mention that other manufacturers will have MeeGo? I know it's been said it'll be a cross platform OS and BMW, Asus etc will have it in their in-car entertainment, but i haven't seen anything that, say, Motorola can release a MeeGo phone. I hope not personally.

They can, certainly. But anyone who cares about openness will avoid them like the plague.

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richwhite | # 25 | 2010-10-19, 15:46 | Report

Originally Posted by wmarone View Post

Wait, I thought that was Apple?

Google does whatever they need to remain relevant. They saw where mobile was going and moved. Mobile computing isn't terribly different from regular computing, so long as you approach it right (which Microsoft failed miserably at.)

Oh sure, Apple do it too, but at least they know where to draw the line IMO. Like Jobs himself has said, there's no Apple search engine for instance.

Where have Google really got regular computing experience though? A search engine and a shedload of advertising more or less.

Originally Posted by wmarone View Post

Fragmentation in Windows was worse, and with varying hardware specs makes development of games something more difficult than what it is for consoles.

Ah, i don't really use games so can't comment there, see your point though. I was really talking from a day-to-day point though of modern Windows

Originally Posted by wmarone View Post

Android's core problem is the carriers, followed by the handset vendors.

Most definitely agree there.

chowdahhead | # 26 | 2010-10-19, 15:47 | Report

Texas Instruments is quoted as saying that when the OMAP4 debuts, the OMAP3 SOC's will displace ARM11 on the low end. I can understand if Meego is reserved for high-end handsets for performance reasons, but it shouldn't be used to up sell higher margin phones. It the above is true, and if the N900 runs Meego well (recent Youtube videos seem to suggest it will), than the argument for Symbian becomes pretty difficult. If Meego is going to have long term success in the growing crowd of smartphone OS's, it needs to be ubiquitous and widely used. It can't be solely used as bait to draw consumers into the high end.

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quipper8 | # 27 | 2010-10-19, 15:51 | Report

here is the pretty pie chart of android fragmentation

http://blog.tweetdeck.com/android-ecosystem

mbo | # 28 | 2010-10-19, 15:55 | Report

Originally Posted by quipper8 View Post

here is the pretty pie chart of android fragmentation

http://blog.tweetdeck.com/android-ecosystem

even 6 beta testers with nokia n900

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benny1967 | # 29 | 2010-10-19, 16:03 | Report

Fragmentation needn't be an issue if handled properly. I think MeeGo is cleverly designed for fragmentation, whereas Android must avoid it - and Apple couldn't if they wanted to, lacking the variety in hardware.

Darth Vader is right in a way linking freedom to fragmentation. Could you imagine free software without forks and incompatibilities? But it needn't be a negative thing. Knowing it will happen to a certain degree, you'll just have to deal with it propely.

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richwhite | # 30 | 2010-10-19, 16:08 | Report

Originally Posted by chowdahhead View Post

Texas Instruments is quoted as saying that when the OMAP4 debuts, the OMAP3 SOC's will displace ARM11 on the low end. I can understand if Meego is reserved for high-end handsets for performance reasons, but it shouldn't be used to up sell higher margin phones. It the above is true, and if the N900 runs Meego well (recent Youtube videos seem to suggest it will), than the argument for Symbian becomes pretty difficult. If Meego is going to have long term success in the growing crowd of smartphone OS's, it needs to be ubiquitous and widely used. It can't be solely used as bait to draw consumers into the high end.

I doubt it'll be used as bait, not all mobile users are smartphone users and mostly that's through choice. I know someone still using a 3310, he simply isn't interested in smartphones. If and when that phone dies, he'll buy a cheap Nokia. Why would he want MeeGo? He'll just want a Symbian phone to make calls and texts. And that's the other weapon Nokia has: Android and Apple only do smartphones, not just 'phones'. Nokia cover the whole market and realise one OS isn't enough for the entire userbase.

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