Eldar and others: Nokia and Microsoft Discussing WP7 - Page 13 - maemo.org

ericsson | # 121 | 2010-12-28, 14:44 | Report

Originally Posted by wmarone View Post

Massively so. Every Android vendor is 100% dependent on Google for future development of all aspects of the OS aside from the kernel. Generally this is a bad thing, and needlessly duplicated effort.

They don't. It's all about NIH and having total control over the platform.

This sentence makes none. Please clarify.

WM? It has no "upstream", and your statement makes me wonder if you understand what he meant. And how would MeeGo make more sense on Intel than on ARM? I don't believe for a moment that Symbian, as it currently is, can maintain any efficiency leads over Linux or any other mobile OS, especially since the world turned its collective nose up at the source release (many years too late.)

I understood what he meant. Upstream is a relative term in any case, but the problem is that he (and you as well by the looks of it) have not understood Nokia's main problem. Nokia does not have the recourses or manpower to do this, Nokia needs someone further "upstream" to maintain the core OS. Regarding MeeGo for ARM, Nokia has to do everything alone, but still they are 100% dependent on the Linux kernel further upstream.

Google said: Lets branch off from the bloated Linux kernel, cut of the dead meat and make a true mobile OS that we have full control of. I don't blame them, it's their OS, and only Google knows what is best for Google. Nokia don't need to do this. Nokia has Symbian that has nothing in common with the bloatware Linux kernel. The way it is right now, Intel maintain the Intel version of MeeGo while Nokia maintain the ARM version. It would be much easier and sober (Nokia is no producer of ARM chips) for Nokia to do what everybody else will do; use the Intel-MeeGo on intel chips - plug'n play - ready to put some fancy UI on it. Symbian works perfectly for ARM, why duplicate the work?

For Nokia, going Intel on MeeGo would make sense. Going WM as core OS would also make sense.

wmarone | # 122 | 2010-12-28, 15:08 | Report

Originally Posted by ericsson View Post

Nokia does not have the recourses or manpower to do this, Nokia needs someone further "upstream" to maintain the core OS.

It's not that they don't have the manpower or resources, obviously they do. The point is that doing a whole OS like Maemo is outside Nokia's scope.

Originally Posted by ericsson View Post

Regarding MeeGo for ARM, Nokia has to do everything alone, but still they are 100% dependent on the Linux kernel further upstream.

Which only really needs to be done once then maintained in the upstream. It is an investment, but not whole-OS level and will pay out over time.

Originally Posted by

Google said: Lets branch off from the bloated Linux kernel, cut of the dead meat and make a true mobile OS that we have full control of.

No they didn't. They bought a company developing a proprietary OS that used a heavily augmented Linux kernel and open sourced it. They then reinvented the wheel and threw away the rest of the open source community.

Originally Posted by

Nokia has Symbian that has nothing in common with the bloatware Linux kernel.

You are very, very anti-Linux and have yet to see a real basis for it.

Originally Posted by

The way it is right now, Intel maintain the Intel version of MeeGo while Nokia maintain the ARM version.

Well, that shouldn't be too hard, so long as the code doesn't do stupid CPU specific stuff and the compiler works well. Integration as a whole is done on a higher level and optimization is device specific.

Originally Posted by

It would be much easier and sober (Nokia is no producer of ARM chips) for Nokia to do what everybody else will do; use the Intel-MeeGo on intel chips - plug'n play - ready to put some fancy UI on it. Symbian works perfectly for ARM, why duplicate the work?

Because now only Nokia is developing Symbian, and must do even more than they did with Maemo.

Originally Posted by

For Nokia, going Intel on MeeGo would make sense. Going WM as core OS would also make sense.

Nonsense. That cleaves your branding in half and gives the mobile space securely to Microsoft, since Intel won't be relevant in smartphones for a while.

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ericsson | # 123 | 2010-12-28, 15:44 | Report

Originally Posted by wmarone View Post

It's not that they don't have the manpower or resources, obviously they do. The point is that doing a whole OS like Maemo is outside Nokia's scope.

Which only really needs to be done once then maintained in the upstream. It is an investment, but not whole-OS level and will pay out over time.

No they didn't. They bought a company developing a proprietary OS that used a heavily augmented Linux kernel and open sourced it. They then reinvented the wheel and threw away the rest of the open source community.

You are very, very anti-Linux and have yet to see a real basis for it.

Well, that shouldn't be too hard, so long as the code doesn't do stupid CPU specific stuff and the compiler works well. Integration as a whole is done on a higher level and optimization is device specific.

Because now only Nokia is developing Symbian, and must do even more than they did with Maemo.

Nonsense. That cleaves your branding in half and gives the mobile space securely to Microsoft, since Intel won't be relevant in smartphones for a while.

Whatever. Samsung has shown how to do this the right way with Bada. Google has shown how to do this the right way with Android. Nokia has shown how to do this the wrong way with Maemo/MeeGo. Intel is into MeeGo to sell more chips, why is Nokia there? There is too much here that makes no sense.

vkv.raju | # 124 | 2010-12-28, 16:09 | Report

Originally Posted by ericsson View Post

Whatever. Samsung has shown how to do this the right way with Bada.

Can you please clarify a bit more on this? What's this success of Bada OS that you are referring to?

Originally Posted by

Google has shown how to do this the right way with Android.

Success doesn't mean that things are being done the right way. Things that are right for you might not be right for someone else and vice-versa. Also, please define success?

Originally Posted by

Nokia has shown how to do this the wrong way with Maemo/MeeGo.

Again needs clarification/justification.

Originally Posted by

Intel is into MeeGo to sell more chips, why is Nokia there?

Nokia is obviously there to sell more hardware.

Originally Posted by

There is too much here that makes no sense.

Would you please list them out here so that one of us can try/attempt to clarify your doubts.

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danramos | # 125 | 2010-12-28, 16:19 | Report

Originally Posted by ericsson View Post

Samsung has shown how to do this the right way with Bada.

Bada's success... Which is PRECISELY why Samsung has decided to go almost exclusively Android with all of their new devices.

Look out! He's a MASTER DEBATER!

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gerbick | # 126 | 2010-12-28, 18:55 | Report

Bada is about to come out with version 2.0 whereas I never saw 1.0. Not a good sign.

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danramos | # 127 | 2010-12-28, 21:15 | Report

Originally Posted by gerbick View Post

Bada is about to come out with version 2.0 whereas I never saw 1.0. Not a good sign.

Myself, I hadn't ever HEARD of Bada until someone mentioned it here sometime last year as an example of an open-source OS... which, as it turns out, it is not. Soooooo... what was the point being made here now, again?

gerbick | # 128 | 2010-12-28, 22:40 | Report

Originally Posted by danramos View Post

Myself, I hadn't ever HEARD of Bada until someone mentioned it here sometime last year as an example of an open-source OS... which, as it turns out, it is not. Soooooo... what was the point being made here now, again?

Even Linux has closed source binary bits in the kernel. Bada was supposed to be an open source option, it's largely open source. But not fully.

It's in the same league as Maemo. Mostly open, the closed bits exist, people gloss over that because it doesn't support what people say about their platform of choice.

And when people say that Android is not open source, yet say that Maemo truly is... Android you had to go back to Google for support, advancement and control. Maemo? You had to go back to Nokia for support, advancement and control.

In the case of MeeGo, it looks like the Linux Foundation will finally be governing it instead of Nokia, the closed bits will be minimal (supposedly) and that additions to the OS will be upstreamed into the mainstream Linux timeline.

I'm finally in the mid of I'll believe it when I see it. Bada... it came out, was heralded by a few folks around these parts... fell sorta flat on its face imho. It reminded me of SavaJe too much... yet another dead end that was lauded by a small group of folks that abandoned it real damn quick when other options were made available.

Oh... you were asking for points? Erm... it exists.

That's all I can muster. Sorry.

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mikecomputing | # 129 | 2010-12-28, 23:11 | Report

you forget that stericsson and texas instruments and linpus is working on the arm port.

You say Intel in Nokia handsets? I say no thanks. I dont want to have a fan in my handset cause the cpu is eating to much power!! It will take two years more before even Intel has a chance on the handset market.

Originally Posted by ericsson View Post

I understood what he meant. Upstream is a relative term in any case, but the problem is that he (and you as well by the looks of it) have not understood Nokia's main problem. Nokia does not have the recourses or manpower to do this, Nokia needs someone further "upstream" to maintain the core OS. Regarding MeeGo for ARM, Nokia has to do everything alone, but still they are 100% dependent on the Linux kernel further upstream.

Google said: Lets branch off from the bloated Linux kernel, cut of the dead meat and make a true mobile OS that we have full control of. I don't blame them, it's their OS, and only Google knows what is best for Google. Nokia don't need to do this. Nokia has Symbian that has nothing in common with the bloatware Linux kernel. The way it is right now, Intel maintain the Intel version of MeeGo while Nokia maintain the ARM version. It would be much easier and sober (Nokia is no producer of ARM chips) for Nokia to do what everybody else will do; use the Intel-MeeGo on intel chips - plug'n play - ready to put some fancy UI on it. Symbian works perfectly for ARM, why duplicate the work?

For Nokia, going Intel on MeeGo would make sense. Going WM as core OS would also make sense.

Last edited by mikecomputing; 2010-12-28 at 23:14.

theonelaw | # 130 | 2010-12-28, 23:42 | Report

Originally Posted by mikecomputing View Post

You say Intel in Nokia handsets? I say no thanks. I dont want to have a fan in my handset cause the cpu is eating to much power!! It will take two years more before even Intel has a chance on the handset market.

Water-cooled handphones would need no such fan.