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johnel is offline johnel
2010-12-23 , 09:12
Posts: 999 | Thanked: 1,117 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ earth?
#11
My old Sony-Ericsson k800i has a 3-megapixel camera that takes great photos for a camera phone - much better than today's offerings (including the N900). My k800i also has a xenon flash which is miles better than the standard led bulbs used in many phones these days.

It seems that every manufacturer are chasing megapixel count rather than improving the general quality of camera functions in phones these days.

One of the main defining factors of picture quality is the siaze of the CMOS/CCD chip that genreates the image - e.g. physically larger surface area means more light gathered means better quality picture.

As I understand it, to squeeze all the features into modern phones manufacturers are using smaller CMOS/CCD chips hence the generally "noisy" and poor low-light pictures people are taking today.
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Last edited by johnel; 2010-12-23 at 09:24. Reason: SE Phone is k800i not k900i!
 
slender is offline slender
2010-12-23 , 09:15
Posts: 2,829 | Thanked: 1,459 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Finland
#12
Originally Posted by maverick788us View Post
Yes N8 is the last candidate to have AF and CZ. After N8, C7 and C601 both have 8MP camera with none of these functionalities
Ehm...
So it seems that you are new fellow? Do you understand why they have different categories and what is the point in them? There are still people, many of those old and grumpy ones who like to say "I do not want this and that in my phone because I do not want to pay for some extra features". So always know your Bias

If you want to take pictures go for N-series (and do not try to take it in business environment)
If you want to make business go for E-series (and do not try to consume multimedia with it)
If you want to do business and enjoy multimedia then well go for something else maybe android Nokia has still not completely understand what people want to but they are slowly getting there.

For example look here:
http://nokiafanboy.com/2010/09/17/no...bian3-monster/
Some pretty weird compromises on e7 which are probably justified just by some layout engineers that are focused on customizing machines that assembly those devices.
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Last edited by slender; 2010-12-23 at 09:29.
 
maverick788us is offline maverick788us
2010-12-23 , 09:30
Posts: 215 | Thanked: 27 times | Joined on Jul 2010
#13
Originally Posted by slender View Post
Ehm...
So it seems that you are new fellow? Do you understand why they have different categories and what is the point in them? There are still people, many of those old and grumpy ones who like to say "I do not want this and that in my phone because I do not want to pay for some extra features". So always know your Bias

If you want to take pictures go for N-series (and do not try to take it in business environment)
If you want to make business go for E-series (and do not try to consume multimedia with it)
If you want to do business and enjoy multimedia then well go for something else maybe android Nokia has still not completely understand what people want to but they are slowly getting there.

For example look here:
http://nokiafanboy.com/2010/09/17/no...bian3-monster/
Some pretty weird compromises on e7 which are probably justified just by some layout engineers that are focused on customizing machines that build those devices.
I've been using Nokia smartphones since begenning. It started with 7610 followed by N70->N95 and now N900.

Autofocus is something which is indeed a need for any cameraphone.

If I am not wrong N90 was the first nokia smartphone, which happened to use Autofocus. Even if we leave N-Series aside, even low / mid budget smartphones like 5800 Expressmusic, 5500 Expressmusic, 5350 and many other Non N-Series but economical handsets (even C6) have Autofocus enabled.

But now they suddnely started eliminating this functionality is something that might be unacceptable for people who frequently use their cameraphones regularly for taking photograph.

Since I am not an optical expert, so I don't know how much will Autofocussing will add to manufacturing cost, But if I am not wrong it should'nt increase the cost be big margin
 
slender is offline slender
2010-12-23 , 09:35
Posts: 2,829 | Thanked: 1,459 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Finland
#14
Originally Posted by maverick788us View Post
I've been using Nokia smartphones since begenning. It started with 7610 followed by N70->N95 and now N900.

Autofocus is something which is indeed a need for any cameraphone.

If I am not wrong N90 was the first nokia smartphone, which happened to use Autofocus. Even if we leave N-Series aside, even low / mid budget smartphones like 5800 Expressmusic, 5500 Expressmusic, 5350 and many other Non N-Series but economical handsets (even C6) have Autofocus enabled.

But now they suddnely started eliminating this functionality is something that might be unacceptable for people who frequently use their cameraphones regularly for taking photograph.

Since I am not an optical expert, so I don't know how much will Autofocussing will add to manufacturing cost, But if I am not wrong it should'nt increase the cost be big margin
Hahaa. We are slowly getting there. My friend itīs pure business!

If you like to take pictures then buy N8.

They have probably collected huge pile of statistics on pictures taken on lower end Nokia phones and concluded that most of them were taken as landscape pictures. Only small amout of macros and close range pictures where you need focus. After that they probably made business decisions to cut out that functionality and make casing little smaller and assembly line little more effective for all models.

Itīs just business and for some users it sucks and to give direct feedback to Nokia: Change. Buy something else.

.edit
btw. IMO c7 is currently waaaay to expensive about 260€ is max that I would pay for it. And for C6 about 200€. Itīs just weird how much those phones cost.
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Last edited by slender; 2010-12-23 at 09:45.
 
porselinaheart is offline porselinaheart
2010-12-23 , 09:54
Posts: 188 | Thanked: 53 times | Joined on May 2010
#15
i still keep my trusty n82 around for taking pics/gps navigation...'sigh....
 
maverick788us is offline maverick788us
2010-12-23 , 10:10
Posts: 215 | Thanked: 27 times | Joined on Jul 2010
#16
Originally Posted by slender View Post
Hahaa. We are slowly getting there. My friend itīs pure business!

If you like to take pictures then buy N8.

They have probably collected huge pile of statistics on pictures taken on lower end Nokia phones and concluded that most of them were taken as landscape pictures. Only small amout of macros and close range pictures where you need focus. After that they probably made business decisions to cut out that functionality and make casing little smaller and assembly line little more effective for all models.

Itīs just business and for some users it sucks and to give direct feedback to Nokia: Change. Buy something else.

.edit
btw. IMO c7 is currently waaaay to expensive about 260€ is max that I would pay for it. And for C6 about 200€. Itīs just weird how much those phones cost.
OK so is Nokia adopting the same methodology that SE adopted half decade back, where they had dedicated phone either for camera or music, instead of making a device that is Jack of all trade?
 
slender is offline slender
2010-12-23 , 10:17
Posts: 2,829 | Thanked: 1,459 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Finland
#17
Originally Posted by maverick788us View Post
OK so is Nokia adopting the same methodology that SE adopted half decade back, where they had dedicated phone either for camera or music, instead of making a device that is Jack of all trade?
To me Nokia has never completely done that kind of device (.edit dear god...I meant that Nokia has made excatly that kind of devices Jacks of all trades that do not master anywhere..perhaps in pics on some devices). Maybe N95 but they lost it again. Itīs like some weird business strategy that they have going on where they try to make as much as money from differentiating devices to all different kind of people and same time try to make devices that do not overlap each other and eat one another's selling. So they take some features away from top line devices and throw them to other devices. This is what Nokia has always been to me and I have understood it from business point of view but from my own point of view as customer itīs quite terrible. I need _all_ features and in top quality.
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Last edited by slender; 2010-12-23 at 11:30.
 
maartenmk is offline maartenmk
2010-12-23 , 10:21
Posts: 182 | Thanked: 69 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Netherlands
#18
The C7, C6-01 etc. cameras are not regular fixed-focus. They use the so-called enhanced depth of field (EDOF). And while I'm sure part of it is just marketing, you cannot dismiss them as simple fixed-focus cameras. The technology is pretty sophisticated.

The depth of field is actually quite large, the only really unsharp area is around 50cm and closer. The pictures do display a lot of artifacts, but much of that is avoidable by setting the sharpening to 'soft' in the software. There are still problems, e.g. with color rendering and some blurriness at the edges, but overall the pictures look much better than those of regular fixed-focus cams. In several cases they beat the N900 ones as well.

Then there are the obvious advantages, such as speed of picture-taking, no wrongly focused pictures, and better video output (videos especially benefit from the large depth of field)

By the way, I can't believe I am defending the EDOF cameras... I certainly prefer auto-focus ones myself, and I very much hope the N900 successor will have the latter.
But it's not as bad as it's made out to be here.
 
woussie is offline woussie
2010-12-23 , 10:29
Posts: 50 | Thanked: 57 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#19
Originally Posted by johnel View Post
My old Sony-Ericsson k800i has a 3-megapixel camera that takes great photos for a camera phone - much better than today's offerings (including the N900). My k800i also has a xenon flash which is miles better than the standard led bulbs used in many phones these days.

It seems that every manufacturer are chasing megapixel count rather than improving the general quality of camera functions in phones these days.

One of the main defining factors of picture quality is the siaze of the CMOS/CCD chip that genreates the image - e.g. physically larger surface area means more light gathered means better quality picture.

As I understand it, to squeeze all the features into modern phones manufacturers are using smaller CMOS/CCD chips hence the generally "noisy" and poor low-light pictures people are taking today.
I also had that phone before the N900, that truly was the greatest camera-phone at it's time. In perfect light conditions the N900 is a little better in my opinion, because of the higher resolution, but indeed in mediocre- or low-light conditions the N900 camera sucks.

So your story is 100% correct, and i think the phone manufacturers are fooling themselves with this stupid megapixel race. Back in the k800i days, the "featurephone days", before the megapixel race, megapixels actually meant something in marketing terms. Because when a (feature-)phone was advertised with "3MP", it usually had a good image sensor (a bigger CMOS/CCD chip). Makes sense, because if you sell a feature-phone because of that particular feature, that feature should be damn good, if not you dissappoint your customers big time.

But then smartphone market flourished, bye bye feature-phones, and suddenly manufacturers had to put a shitload of hardware parts (GPS chip, image chip, bigger battery,...) in one single device. Off course it's not possible to combine the best hardware of all feature-phones in one phone! Well you could, but you would end up with a device that's 40mm thick, and who wants to buy that?
So suddenly the manufacturers needed to make their hardware parts smaller, and off course they didn't want to tell you that smaller meant worse. No, their marketing tells us that a smartphone combines the best of all feature-phones! So what did they do? Put a smaller CMOS/CCD chip in the device, increase the pixel count; et voila! They still have a 3MP device, so their marketing is ok now.

By the way, they did the same thing with other hardware. Four years ago we had feature-phones with better speakers, better kickstands, better FM Receivers, better microphones,...
It's not only a megapixel race, but it's a "the smallest phone" race (take the iPhone 4 for example; shitty antenna design, but it makes the phone smaller, so yay!). I love my bulky N900!

My opinion? I think that in a few years, the smartphone market will be saturated. And a that point the manufacturers will have to make quality-, not quantity-phones again. If not... their phone is just one phone among all others. The quality-quantity rate will stabilize again, i think. But for now... quantity fo the win!
 

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