backcover_press_service | # 371 | 2014-06-02, 20:20 | Report

Good question, that I actually can answer without asking:
Initially, it was meant to be something like "backcover/body replacement for FreEmantle powered devices". But, since Neo900 flopped, it is not sure if FreEmantle will ever emerge (I hope so, even for N900 alone! But hardware limitations in form of closed blobs might block it) and it wasn't making much sense to change it later.

Rover, OTOH, is known only to few (I, for one, had no idea) and there is currently only one device powered by fremantle. we wasn't sure if describing is as n900-backcover-replacement would be Ok, as N900 is Nokia's/Microsoft's trademark. So, we decided on fremantle, as widely recognized term.

Now, it might be bad idea from my side (I'm the one that helped with gitorious creation and rolling it"properly"), but I had no better one. I'm afraid that changing it later might be bad idea, as it breaks push/pull git links, so if no one come up with a ingenious better alternative right now, it's going to stay that way.

Also, I forget to mention two things something in my comment after quote from 1st post:

1. The leg isn't inside backcover in any photo, because its hinges are inserted into case and glued (temporally) for anodizing, already. They're too small to anodize separately - we're anodizing the whole backcover in three groups. Backcover with it's things inserted temporally is one, leg another, and camera's cover the last. Afterwards, hinges are removed, leg inserted, and hinges incorporated for good, this time.

2. Estel meant to post the update last Friday, actually, but he couldn't for obvious reasons (that I don't want to discuss as off-topic and unrelated to my work) I was unavailable for the weekend and my TMO account setup had some complications, thus the 3-days delay.

Sincerely, Arien Stokowiec

Garrett_PL | # 372 | 2014-06-02, 20:20 | Report

Well, before posting photos You should google for FARECLA G3, buy it and spend 1h at least for finnishing alloy. Now it looks like part taken from vintage tractor made in USSR, all covered in deep scraches from sand paper that is rather for wood working. Our mighty coder still have a lot to learn about man work, like real life tasks. I think, beeing honest, that is two years wasted for something ... ugly and not practical at all. THAT IS MY OPINION.

backcover_press_service | # 373 | 2014-06-02, 20:23 | Report

Thanks for your opinion, Garret - I hope that you have actually went through the post, as the thing about scratches was explain there, in detail. If you just looked at the photos, you might reconsider.

BTW, I love vintage tractors from USSR! And old radios, too. My N900 body replacement will be, in fact, just plain Alu with "rails" from mill still visible, anodized colorless, to keep Alu look. I like it more that way. We expect that most people will prefer black, though.

The beauty of this project is that everyone will be able to get highly customized look out of it, and to some extent, features too (esp. in body repl. phase). Not to mention that g-code files that we released have nothing to do with sand paper (and no, it wasn't polished by sand paper for woodwork...), so I guess that you're free to make it *much* better. And contribute back your changes on git! The license is GPL3, by the way.

Arien Stokowiec

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Last edited by backcover_press_service; 2014-06-02 at 20:29.

pichlo | # 374 | 2014-06-02, 20:39 | Report

Well, you (Estel) have been banned, but backcover_press_service can still post updates on your behalf, right?

Go easy on him, the poor guy had to dictate it to his secretary

backcover_press_service | # 375 | 2014-06-02, 20:48 | Report

Right! This is our plan. But we didn't wanted to promise it, as Estel wasn't sure if my account won't be terminated, including all posts made. In fact, we're still not sure if the progress update post won't vanish tomorrow. In such case, we won't wrestle with the system.

So, treat it as "we will post 2 weeks update since today if we will be able to", otherwise, the warning from announcement apply and you will need to wait for Estel's return if/when it happens.

BTW, right now I'm setting up a FOSS engine powered (unlike the one here, which is proprietary vBulletin) forum, that we plan to use for all projects since its production ready, abandoning TMO altogether as unreliable service. Of course, we will leave notes where to find us in every Estel's project thread, and a warning that hill posts will vanish from TMO after two months, allowing people to backup whatever posts they fill useful. After that, Estel plan to nuke his TMO account.

If I recall correctly, Estel said something about allowing other people to post their projects there, in case they're tired of TMO wrestling, too, and would be willing to switch (or work in parallel) on the forum with more FOSS'y administration patterns. But don't quote me on it, it wasn't set in stone yet. We must evaluate possible bandwidth etc, in case people actually pick up on the offer more than we expect

Hey, I'm not *that* kind of secretary
***

Arien Stokowiec

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Last edited by backcover_press_service; 2014-06-02 at 20:52.

misiak | # 376 | 2014-06-02, 21:22 | Report

"True" open-source spirit Why delete posts from here? And why not set up something more project-management-related, like Redmine, instead of shitty forum system (btw, Redmine has forums module too)? Do you also plan to remove Estel's software from maemo repositories and create your own one (I'm using Ereswap on one of my devices, so in case it gets some updates, I would love to get them, too)?

backcover_press_service | # 377 | 2014-06-02, 21:36 | Report

Estel's argumentations is TMO is not reliable place for informing and communicating about his projects. He also stated, that post database is in hands (managed) by people that were not elected by the community, not appointed by Hildon Foundation Council (or something like that, excuse me writing from memory), processed by closed source hardware forum engine (vBulletin). Finally, he mentioned huge problems with handling posts database in times of Nokia dropping support when he was Councilor, and state, that those problems about "who owns psots database" have never been resolved, nor free license for content posted was applied.

The promise from the 1st post in this thread is that all parts of Alu body replacement are going to be created using FOSS software. For me (my private opinion), it also means communication services. For rest of his posts, you need to ask Estel, but I think that respecting his right to decide where his posts are appearing and managed by who, is not too much. I don't see how transferring content from non-FOSS unknown-managed board to FOSS one is not FOSS-spirited.

For your information, all posts on new forum will be posted under Creative Commons license (FSF approved). Any person registering will have to agree that content posted by said person is CC licensed, so contributions will remain in public domain indefinitely (and everyone will have right to replicate/use them in any way that doesn't break CC rules).

As for any_other_engine propositions - again, it's a thing to discuss with Estel. We assumed, that hosting project files in Gitorious and having FOSS forum engine to communicate is enough for us, thus we don't want to waste time setting up something different/learning how to set it up and how to use/ just for the sake of it.

If you're willing to contribute your time setting up something that you tihnk would be more efficient for our project, we're thankful and definitely interested. I can organize a direct (mail) contact between you and Estel, to discuss your contributions plans.
***

As for Estels programs in repos, you have to ask him. I guess that it depends on the status of repos (who managed them, and if that person have right to do so appointed by community, or some kind of content hijacking occurred).

Any way, all things Estel release are GPL or LGPL licensed, so there is not problem in anyone replicating/reuploading/maintaining them in case Estel decide to pull it out. Again, I don't think there will be reasons for it, if status of Maemo's repos isn't dubious.

Sincerely,
Arien Stokowiec

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Last edited by backcover_press_service; 2014-06-02 at 21:43.

sixwheeledbeast | # 378 | 2014-06-02, 21:37 | Report

I don't see why you can't setup a web page for the project and have a IRC channel similar to the neo900 project.
IMO this would be an easy way to broadcast your own updates away from TMO if required.

backcover_press_service | # 379 | 2014-06-02, 21:47 | Report

IRC require constant availability or proxy gateways to setup, which takes time/resources. Users who doesn't have those irc proxies are prone to miss progress updates. We prefer to use forum for the same reasons that it was posted on TMO, initially, but we don't agree to TMO's unresolved license (of content posted) issue, the way it is managed, people that are managing it, the way they were appointed, etc.

In any case, if there will be demand for IRC channel as addition to messaging board, we wills setup one on freenode, or ask our contributors to volunteer.

But, please, it is not thread about TMO replacement project Maybe it was my mistake to write about it so early (I wanted to keep you all maximally informed), as the forum isn't even setup yet. If Estel decide to try forking TMO for all TMO's intents and purposes, he will surely create announcement thread (or ask me to do so, if he will still be unable to do so).
****

Arien Stokowiec

misiak | # 380 | 2014-06-02, 21:50 | Report

Don't want to sound like a douche, but such argumentation pisses me off. The database was always in private hands (first it was owned by Reggie - one of TMO members) and then it was handled to HiFo or something like that. And while more FOSS-friendly and wanted there were legal problems with changing the place they're stored (country) and there was no manpower to migrate the database (forum engine). About content posted, see footer:



Don't forget to make sure your internet card uses foss firmware and none of servers/routers/etc on the way use proprietary software.

Ignoring ******** about unknown-managed (there is no such thing as unknown-managed) etc: Transfering - ok, but keep it consistent. You will make both databases incosistent and look like crap in places related to your projects - and you will reach much smaller audience when you remove your stuff from here (there are not many Maemo users either way). In the end, it will not benefit your projects, and maybe even the opposite (prove me wrong).

See my screenshot above, read this forum's rules and see footer - what you wrote is nothing different than this forum, no improvement, just silly childish "i'll take my toys and go play in another playground".

I run my own FOSS projects (and commercial closed-source ones) and use Redmine for them, I just think you should give it a try. I haven't know Ruby at the time I was setting it up at first and it took me <1h to be up and running. But it's your decision, I only wanted to suggest considering something which is FOSS too, but can help manage projects (especially if there are many of them).

Ok, I hope someone will reupload it if he wants them removed. I don't see how status of Maemo's repos could be dubious - there are different repos, all with clear rules and licenses, like Debian ones.

I will contact Estel directly if I have any other questions, thanks for your answer, I didn't want to offend you, I'm just generally angry that Estel and joerg_rw both cannot settle some kind of agreement between themselves.

Edit: I will not be surprised if this situation ends up in way similar to that thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1017410 It looks like TMO had similar "issues" in the past, too ;p (it's strange, I was active back then, I should remember that...)

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Last edited by misiak; 2014-06-02 at 21:56.