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2012-10-17
, 06:16
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Joined on Jun 2010
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#42
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Look, I think that the N9 has positive points, but the debate of people defending the device goes from, "I don't need all the apps that Android and iOS have" to "I don't need core functions like email and tracker to work." So, then what exactly were we looking for in the device??? I mean, should we set the bar so low that this level of performance should be tolerated?
And given the N9's bugtracker, which most people on this forum contributed to or at least knew about, it's pretty well established that the N9 had and has numerous problems, was poorly supported, and was never fully fixed.
As for the issue about Nokia + Android possibility, I suppose I think of it like this: if the 920 had an Android variant in an alternate universe identical to our own, but kept everything else the same about the device, would it outsell the Lumia 920 in our universe? I think that it would. What do you think?
Now ask yourself the same question about a Lumia 800 and 900 with WP vs the same devices running Android. Which would have sold more? Which would be more delightful devices?
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Originally Posted by thedead1440
Given that my issues with crappy Nokia email clients hadn't been solved since my time with the N900, I admire the faith you have that Nokia would have turned it around at any point in time. But, honestly, I pay Nokia for its results, not its methods, so any sort of self-inflicted reason for failure is all the same to me. Such failure would not have been tolerated at either one of the primary competitors.
What is to say that the tracker and email issues wouldn't have been solved?
And given the N9's bugtracker, which most people on this forum contributed to or at least knew about, it's pretty well established that the N9 had and has numerous problems, was poorly supported, and was never fully fixed.
Originally Posted by thedead1440
Yes, that was a win, but several email issues remain, including the failure of the email client to accurately keep track of the number of unread emails in Yahoo accounts. The Hotmail thing was the half that WAS baked, but the problem areas are the half that was left UN-baked. ;-)
[A]fter all aren't we the only OSes (Fremantle & Harmattan) to have solved Hotmail Exchange issues among iOS, Android, WM, webOS etc)[/I]
Originally Posted by thedead1440
Yeah, I meant Android devices of similar time of release and price as the N9.
Android covers from one of the lowest price-points to the highest so you might want to refer to a flagship Android being released the way the N9 was instead of generic Android
Originally Posted by thedead1440
I agree with your point about the leadership problem at Nokia as being the central issue, so we're eye-to-eye on that.
Lastly, again what is to say Nokia+Android would have been a successful match? Samsung and others would have had Nokia for breakfast with the slowness with which Nokia updates devices with latest tech...
Remember if employees and middle-managers are in-fighting in an organization, then it means those at the top are seriously lacking in leadership skills so pre-Elop already you had a rudderless leadership...
As for the issue about Nokia + Android possibility, I suppose I think of it like this: if the 920 had an Android variant in an alternate universe identical to our own, but kept everything else the same about the device, would it outsell the Lumia 920 in our universe? I think that it would. What do you think?
Now ask yourself the same question about a Lumia 800 and 900 with WP vs the same devices running Android. Which would have sold more? Which would be more delightful devices?
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2012-10-17
, 06:29
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#43
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Originally Posted by Hacker
Tolerate? Hell no! Does my tracker work? Yes! Does my Email work? Yes it does! Did I have the Hotmail Exchange issue? Yes i did and I was one of those who was pestering Sergey and at M$ Answers posting about it...So well I don't tolerate sub-standardness...
Look, I think that the N9 has positive points, but the debate of people defending the device goes from, "I don't need all the apps that Android and iOS have" to "I don't need core functions like email and tracker to work." So, then what exactly were we looking for in the device??? I mean, should we set the bar so low that this level of performance should be tolerated?
The remaining is something we can agree on with one clarification; Nokia's leadership was lacking not the harmattan team was lacking...Would giving the Harmattan team more resources after Feb'11 with the sub-contractors taken care of make any difference? Yes it would...
Didn't we know what we are getting into when buying a dead OS and phone? So if we did, we shouldn't be complaining much about Nokia taking our money for a product with no proper bug-tracker, should we? Wasn't Elop's distaste for anything not WP apparent the very next day of the unveiling of the n9 with the leak of Searay (800)?
Android on the Lumia 800? No way I would want my N9 to not run harmattan in favour of Android...Lumia 900 is just an XL version of the 800...
Android on the 920? Would it really sell that well on a dual-core CPU with 1GB RAM? I don't think it would with the quad-cores +2GB ram around...This is my point with Android+Nokia...Nokia have been unable since the n95 to ever make the full product have the top of the line specs...So when you don't have top of the line specs how do you take the fight to Samsung? HTC, Sony etc aren't doing that well are they?
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2012-10-17
, 06:42
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#44
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Originally Posted by thedead1440
I'm actually using a Lumia 900 right now. About to switch back to my N9 since I'm about to travel overseas again and honestly... the Android scene just isn't doing it for me.
Oh and gerbick you are a gadget junkie aren't you? Then why do you still use the one-year old dated N9?Due to it being in your own words "great but could have been f***ing awesome"? Says alot about the n9's pull doesnt it regardless of the fiascos?
Waiting to see what BB10 or Jolla does for my next purchase instead. Doubtful WP8 will cross my desk.
Originally Posted by HELLASISGREECE
No contradiction, but it requires a description that is probably more defined (to me) that is far too implicit than it needs to be.gerbick, I'm losing you there.
first you agree with previous posters it was a fiasco , then you call it "great" and coulda been awesome.
maybe we perceive the word "fiasco" differently. english is not my native language but I think fiasco means disaster..total failure
so you contradict yourself cause deep inside you seem to like the N9. you just had somewhat higher expectations. i see you.
The Nokia N9, to this community is a great device. It's flawed, incomplete, but those are things that could be overcome via continued development.
But that won't happen because of Nokia's past management decisions - going back to OPK, not just Elop. So the fiasco portions are the following... lack of funding, lack of marketing, lack of support... which all three yield a quick and easy death for something they (Elop and the Nokia Board of Directors) seem to not want as an option because Windows Phone 7 and the Lumia line of phones were to be part of that upcoming ecosystem that would save Nokia.
That also didn't happen. But that's not the point. The point is that Maemo, if properly funded should have maintained the progress it's shown since 2005 from OSSO to Maemo to MeeGo and the N9 wouldn't have been such a limited (to just this community) success. It's a good product that could have been made great but was so under-funded that it basically is an incomplete project that we got to enjoy for a year before we lost it all.
To me, that's a disaster in: planning, management, funding, momentum (wasted) and now... community. All in a downfall because Nokia couldn't seize the moment, produce a coherent product with an ecosystem that couldn't be denied even if Elop had tried to shoot it down.
Not the case. From 2005 to 2011, Nokia just wasted all of the above because they lacked the vision. Paid too deeply into Symbian and paid too deeply into WP7 to get what... a $1.90 USD stock price?
That is fiasco defined. Nothing in the above sounds like an unmitigated success. It's a plus we got the device. It sucks about the rest.
Last edited by gerbick; 2012-10-17 at 06:44.
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2012-10-17
, 07:38
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Posts: 359 |
Thanked: 322 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
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#45
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Originally Posted by thedead1440
No, my question is about number of Nokia units sold under two different situations: (1) units of Lumia 920, 800, etc. that were or will be sold in this universe compared to (2) units of Lumia 920, 800, etc. that were or would be sold in an alternate universe that had the Lumia paired with an Android OS. Which scenario would sell more Nokias? (note that sales numbers of HTC, Sammy, and other competitors are not the central focus of question, though the fact that Android controls more than 20X the marketshare of WP should be taken into account).
Android on the 920? Would it really sell that well on a dual-core CPU with 1GB RAM? I don't think it would with the quad-cores +2GB ram around...This is my point with Android+Nokia...Nokia have been unable since the n95 to ever make the full product have the top of the line specs...So when you don't have top of the line specs how do you the fight to Samsung? HTC, Sony etc aren't doing that well are they?
I think that some people would choose the feature set of this hypothetical Android 920 (camera, fancy screen, unique Nokia apps, design) over other top-end devices at least SOME of the time. I mean, that's the whole gamble of WP8, right? That at least some people will choose lower spec'd WP8 devices running an unproven OS over higher-spec'd Android devices running Jellybean, right?
But to respond to your point, I agree that Nokia had too many regressions because of a failure or slowness to bring top of the line specs to their devices. Fair point. I do think that if they would have entered the Android field that they would have HAD to step up their specification game out of sheer survival instincts. It's sort of like a plain girl who transfers to a school full of hotties has to step up her looks to compete with the other girls for a date. Nokia just needed the right motivation to step out of the single-core mode--have you seen the performance of devices like the LG Optimus G? Not too shabby . . .
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2012-10-17
, 07:59
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Posts: 397 |
Thanked: 185 times |
Joined on Oct 2011
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#46
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I really don't know what's the fuss with N9's email client, working great with Gmail and Corporate Microsoft Exchange. All I can think of is the back end problem rather than the client itself.
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2012-10-17
, 08:04
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Posts: 896 |
Thanked: 978 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
@ Greece, Athens
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#47
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of course the lg optimus g runs well... with those specs android (at last!) runs smoothly.
took google 3 years and 1gb ram plus quad core cpus to run perfect.. it also took google 3 years to start having proper multitasking (like the ancient N900)
good software should run nicely on old hardware though. and the meego powered N9 with the old arm cpu runs better than dual core android phones.
why should nokia join android? we have so many android oems.
the market is full.
nokia should have kept going with symbian (putting out e7 successor for example) and meego.
let's hope wp will help nokia. it's their last card...
took google 3 years and 1gb ram plus quad core cpus to run perfect.. it also took google 3 years to start having proper multitasking (like the ancient N900)
good software should run nicely on old hardware though. and the meego powered N9 with the old arm cpu runs better than dual core android phones.
why should nokia join android? we have so many android oems.
the market is full.
nokia should have kept going with symbian (putting out e7 successor for example) and meego.
let's hope wp will help nokia. it's their last card...
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2012-10-17
, 12:23
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Posts: 426 |
Thanked: 374 times |
Joined on Apr 2012
@ Middle East
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#48
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I just want N9's email client to copy and paste text from an email.
Apart from that, the email works just fine, I use it every time, there's no lag on N9, it certainly doesn't "stutter" so much as some people say it does, the web browser is actually very good if you tried using it everyday, it's way faster than an iPhone 4, the swipe UI makes everything awesomer, aaaaand it's a fun device to mod, hack and add stuff which is not possible to do in a closed ecosystem.
The MAIN idea behind this post was to talk about "A Non-Programmer Review of the N9 as your daily phone." and not about how Nokia's management failed. Most people are aware of that and complaining about it won't make it any better at all.
As a phone with the first iteration of the Harmattan OS, N9 performs really good. As a commercial product, unless you're Nokia's shareholder or CEO or in a managerial position who is affected directly by how well the company's products run, it shouldn't bother you at all.
If your devices works just fine for you, use it and be happy. If not, get another one, use it and be happy.
But always be happy!
Apart from that, the email works just fine, I use it every time, there's no lag on N9, it certainly doesn't "stutter" so much as some people say it does, the web browser is actually very good if you tried using it everyday, it's way faster than an iPhone 4, the swipe UI makes everything awesomer, aaaaand it's a fun device to mod, hack and add stuff which is not possible to do in a closed ecosystem.
The MAIN idea behind this post was to talk about "A Non-Programmer Review of the N9 as your daily phone." and not about how Nokia's management failed. Most people are aware of that and complaining about it won't make it any better at all.
As a phone with the first iteration of the Harmattan OS, N9 performs really good. As a commercial product, unless you're Nokia's shareholder or CEO or in a managerial position who is affected directly by how well the company's products run, it shouldn't bother you at all.
If your devices works just fine for you, use it and be happy. If not, get another one, use it and be happy.
But always be happy!
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Architectural Engineer and Graphic Designer.
[Contact me for any designing work.]
Portfolio: AKstudios : : graphics with attitude.
Flickr: AKstudios
Twitter: @flopjoke
Architectural Engineer and Graphic Designer.
[Contact me for any designing work.]
Portfolio: AKstudios : : graphics with attitude.
Flickr: AKstudios
Twitter: @flopjoke
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2012-10-17
, 12:26
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#49
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Originally Posted by flopjoke
This is really needed however currently you can only do it by moving the message to drafts and copying from there...
I just want N9's email client to copy and paste text from an email.
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2012-10-17
, 12:31
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Posts: 184 |
Thanked: 204 times |
Joined on Aug 2012
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#50
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Originally Posted by flopjoke
The OS itself is pretty much free from stuttering. Specially if you have Faster N9 installed.
Apart from that, the email works just fine, I use it every time, there's no lag on N9, it certainly doesn't "stutter" so much as some people say it does, the web browser is actually very good if you tried using it everyday, it's way faster than an iPhone 4, the swipe UI makes everything awesomer, aaaaand it's a fun device to mod, hack and add stuff which is not possible to do in a closed ecosystem.
However some apps stutters like never seen before on a phone. Like MeeSpot and Filebox are only two examles of apps that has absolute horrible scrolling performance which drags down the experience a bit.
It is an over-the-top comparison, but not caring whether your device is open is akin not caring about your government, e.g. not caring about democracy.