mscion | # 231 | 2014-12-02, 20:58 | Report

Why is the calculator not considered a primative computer?

pichlo | # 232 | 2014-12-02, 21:24 | Report

The distinction is rather blurred but generally, a calculator is a device for performing arithmetic operations. Most commonly one at a time. A computer is a more general purpose device that can perform a series of operations authonomously. A lot of sources refer to a computer as a programmable device. If we accept that definition, then the Antikythera device is not really a computer either because it is not programmable. But that of course raises the question of what is a program

MINKIN2 | # 233 | 2014-12-02, 21:31 | Report

I do recall the layman's definition of the Turing machine and how we relate it to computers of our modern age.

In short, these are defined as such...

If a device can add or subtract *1, then it is a clock.
If a device can add, subtract, multiply or devide, then it is a calculator.
If a device can add, subtract, multiply, devide and determine a value based on an if/then argument, then it is a computer.

Turings papers are still argued by many even today, even by the babbage fanboys , but I would still personally count the Anticrythia Mechanism as a computer based on the idea of it being able to calculate the dates of the Olympic games against the solar/lunar cycles. (If that theory is correctly of course)

Edit: spelling and grammar.

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Last edited by MINKIN2; 2014-12-02 at 22:02.

pichlo | # 234 | 2014-12-02, 21:40 | Report

So is a device that can add, subtract, multiply, divide and calculate square roots a calculator or a computer? There are loops and branches in the square root algorithm.

Dave999 | # 235 | 2014-12-02, 22:23 | Report

That's why the word 'device' is the latest and greatest! I have a hard Time to find a more complete word in the world actually. It covers everything. Both specific and in general.

MINKIN2 | # 236 | 2014-12-02, 22:56 | Report

Yeah I say, it has been discussed... A lot But the argument still stands, if a device can be 'programmed' to work with loops/branches that is defined by an algorithm, is it a calculator?

Disclaimer: It is not my argument. I just like to read stuff that I find interesting.

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Last edited by MINKIN2; 2014-12-02 at 23:05.

pichlo | # 237 | 2014-12-02, 23:19 | Report

I have a suggestion. Machines can be nested. A square root device is a calculator that uses a computer

pichlo | # 238 | 2014-12-02, 23:32 | Report

Errr, no. A sundial is much bigger than my wristwatch but the former is a clock and the latter is a computer.

endsormeans | # 239 | 2014-12-02, 23:43 | Report

didn't say a sundial...
I'm talking bigger....
more complex...
hell pichlo...
you and a few other UK members here at tmo live around one of the most iconic-ly famous ones.
Stonehenge.
You have quite a few monuments in fact...
Stonehenge for example... It does more than just calculate a single instance...like exact times of the solstices...it does the lunar calendar calculations as well as solar...
Stonehenge most likely does more than that as well...
and there are many many many other temples and monuments across the planet which calculate different data (especially) on a celestial-body scale.

The only real difference 'tween the small greek model and the large temples and monuments is you can easily manipulate with a finger the greek model...the temples and monuments however take a lot of effort to manipulate.(ie - gotta bring in Bob the Builder for that )

One of my studies back in the day was sacred geometry, loved the math....the proportions...the beauty of it all...it's applications in art and monument.

Nowaday I don't study the old books any more..Haven't for a long time...had to do something with all that book larnin'...

I apply it to my work.
Work with manifold expression, intent and purposes.
Done right it ... it is sorta like a perpetual engine of unfurling discovery that leads to the next.
Not easy to start...lotta planning...but once started just gets easier to add to since it plays very well off the last bit added or surrounding parts...sacred geometry is just one aspect of a whole that can be utilized together with other means...to achieve something quite unique.
Like neato puzzle boxes within puzzle boxes...beside other puzzle boxes...all wrapped up in a puzzle box ....yea...um....easiest way I can explain.
Never cared for art just for it's own sake..or worse...stuff you can't touch, handle or feel...or art with a single minded purpose of using whatever theme/ plot/ idea to hit the viewer in the side of the head like an unsubtle bludgeoning brick...too much of that around anyway.
I like to make stuff that opens up the head...so-to-speak.
However it is nice now and again just to look at a beautiful piece of art ...

But BTT (Bak 2 Topik )

I think it is a grand thing...
how fuzzy it's all starting to get ...
surrounding our machines and what we make of them...

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Last edited by endsormeans; 2014-12-03 at 02:29.

Dave999 | # 240 | 2014-12-03, 07:44 | Report

The Russian Yotaphone ll going for a december release.
Www.yotaphone.com