Estel | # 31 | 2014-10-02, 17:55 | Report

Somehow, I was 100% sure, that you will answer to my post I'm deeply touched by the fact that you won't accuse me of trolling for having my own opinion on the matter.

On a more serious note, though - I respect your opinion, of course. But I think that what most Maemo people expects from Neo900 is to run mature mobile computer/phone hybrid stack on it (aka, fremantle, with or without additional 'e'), not openmoko, or any other OS (be it Debian) that doesn't have very good mobile capabilities.

In my opinion, the only one OS and UI that offer true *NIX possibilities, being very mobile friendly at the same time, is fremantle. Other things are either shifted too much into mobile, or are desktop things, not suitable for usage as a phone.

Thus, I guess that good cooperation between Maemo and any_project_aiming_to_replace_n900 require good cooperation with Maemo officials. (hint - take note where Neo900 name comes from). I don't expect that to happen, for reasons mentioned in last post.

Also, about FUD - Maemo's leadership is in very good shape, and have mature roadmap of what to do next. The only "messed" part of Maemo's leadership was, not incidentally, Neo900's project leader's dictatorship attempts (to seize control over Maemo), but that was fixed already. I would say that Maemo leadership is *much* more stable than Neo900's leadership... YMMV.

/Estel

// Edit

Guy, you must really like a bloody mess to happen

bill_klpd | # 32 | 2014-10-02, 18:58 | Report

I don't know about n950(it was made only for developers, so it is a little easy to understand why it might have some issues) but I won't really agree with you...

N9's camera (I think) is better than n900's...

I also don't really care about the hardware keyboard(maybe because I don't use terminal on android anymore , who knows), but opening the hardware keyboard for doing something small that you can fast do with multitouch is a little stupid

The only good thing is the ability to use almost anything as a stylus.(I don't know how good is the multitouch of a resistive screen that someone stated before, so I can't say)

About the plastic screen, you are right.. My galaxy s3's glass of the screen is still broken, and it broke in less that 2 months of having it, so you are right!

After all of these conversations about screens, I can say that if multitouch on neo900 works well, then maybe I will be a big fun of resistive touch screens (as you can understand I was missing so much the multitouch on my n900)

MartinK | # 33 | 2014-10-02, 19:41 | Report

Well, who knows - I know about a few cases where heated online conflicts were resolved quite nicely when the people met face to face on a conference. But sure, that might not always be the case.

Still, I do sometimes wonder why people in our community get so outright hostile to each other, considering that we need the exact opposite (cooperation), as there is no long a big silent corporation covering our backs and has not been for some time already.

marmistrz | # 34 | 2014-10-02, 19:53 | Report

TOtally agree with MartinK.

wicket | # 35 | 2014-10-03, 04:36 | Report

Planned OS's for the Neo900 include Fremantle (as you've already discovered), Debian, SHR and Replicant (free version of Android). Regarding the specs, it will have 1GB RAM (the same amount as the N9 and Jolla) and a SoC that's slightly more capable than the N9's. That should give you some idea.

All of these OS's should have full telephony capabilities (calls, SMS and data including 4G!). For regular, Linux the most common telephony software stacks are FSO and oFono, both of which are available in the software repositories of most distros.

A much better constructed post this time . It's a shame you had to spoil it at the end with another unnecessary dig at Jörg.

I agree that the Neo900 needs to have Fremantle. I'm still using Fremantle on my N900 for a reason (although I don't think it's a great long term solution). I've nothing against good cooperation between Maemo officials and the Fremantle Porting Task Force however I just don't see what it is that they can offer each other at this moment in time. Should the moment arise, I guess they will cross that bridge when they come to it. In the meantime freemangordon, jonwil, et al. are plugging away at the job.

No FUD intended by my comment about Maemo's leadership. I think they do a great job considering all that's been going on, it's a voluntary position after all! I personally believe that in recent discussions (or should I say flame wars), everyone that has spoken out has done so with the best intentions towards the community. When I say it's "in a bit of a mess" (and I think I was being kind by saying "a bit") it's because there are real problems such as stubbornness, lack of tolerance of others, hatred and insults, all of which are hindering progress. It's not just one or two but about half a dozen people have contributed to this situation. Difference of opinions is healthy but until all of this sh¡t around it stops, the leadership will continue to be a mess.

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Last edited by wicket; 2014-10-03 at 23:24.

freemangordon | # 36 | 2014-10-03, 19:13 | Report

@Estel: Do you still have a ban on freenode? If not, please join #neo900 to get a real view on the progress (fptf stuff that is).

P.S. In case you are able to and decide to join, please refrain from bringing your personal war with joerg there, ok?


EDIT: or you can just keep an eye on the logs http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/

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Last edited by freemangordon; 2014-10-03 at 19:16.

Estel | # 37 | 2014-10-03, 23:11 | Report

[OT]Ban on freenode? If I ever had one, I was not informed about it, and never felt consequences. Unless you mean maemo-channels only (not whole freenode), where answer is "I have no idea". joerg was spilling bans left and right, and in the light of recent developments, he might have issued one in absentia even though I haven't been on Maemo channels for more than a year (or so) [/OT]

[half-OT]Thank you for inviting, although I'll respectfully decline. I tied to talk about Neo900 once, and got month ban on TMO just for doubting some aspects of Neo900's openness, with reason "hurting the project" (just like ban on TMO would be appropriate for hurting 3rd party project, even if I would DO so. I still wonder what idiot decided to grant moderator rights to clearly unstable person... Board fixing it up very soon, hopefully.).[half-ot]

Strictly ON-topic:

Not my version of FOSS-spirited project, not my kind of "openness" and "class" of leadership. As long as the person in question device about Neo900, I will believe that it gets released when I see it. I'm pretty sure that the conflict with GDC and half-arse "rage quit" - even if revoked later - was just a preamble to more deep problems, that *must* arise. With this person as "leader", it's just a rule of nature.

I must have been really, really insane to put my money/time/interest in project with such leadership. As well, I could book another Vivaldi tablet, wait for new p2p software from Kazaa developer, or trust windoze bitlocker encryption with that NSA leaked documents, if I ever get any

Add doubts from my previous posts, and it sums up to why i NEVER recommend Neo900 to anyone I'm wishing well. Hardware can be outdated and overpriced, but I need to at least marginally trust the issuing party.

/Estel

Wikiwide | # 38 | 2014-10-04, 12:56 | Report

Quick reply...

I am a dreamer, and a pragmatic at the same time. As a dreamer, I would rather sponsor a prototype I enjoy, than settle for the mediocre devices being currently on sale by large manufacturers. As a pragmatic, I would support tested-and-proven usability of N900, in reborn Neo900. Jolla sounds good, but it focuses on software, and does not advertise it hardware much, except for Other-Half - and it creates the question of achieving the same functionality with modded battery cover and hacker bus of Neo900.

About leadership and attitudes: I have seen people compared to whom Joerg looks like an angel.

Compare Holmes and Moriarty: Holmes can be insufferable, acerbic, and so on (take into account that sympathetic writer, such as Watson, omits the most negative parts of his character), yet Holmes gets work done, and helps people in the meantime. Moriarty is unpleasant, reticent, threatening, and often achieves his own ends by attacking others.

It can be argued that most people are not geniuses (unlike book characters); yet the meaning is still the same. Some people could argue that Holmes usurps power inside Scotland Yard, breaks rules, disrespects police officers... Yet, Holmes is here to help. And Joerg is here to help, too.

Most truly destructive people are not members of FOSS-oriented-community, I would guess. At least, it's my personal experience that the 'unpleasant person compared to whom Joerg seems an angel' is a Microsoft-supporter-to-bone, be it desktop or laptop or phone.

At the very least, on #neo900 there were pleasant in-depth discussions of why cellular modem and GPS chip have to be on the same chip (space, power; cellular location is way more accurate than GPS location), and no, there is no GPS-only chip which could be used instead of the cellular-and-GPS chip (this manufacturer makes no GPS-only chips; chips of other manufacturers would be too different and require too much R&D; there is already plenty of ways to disable cellular transmitter). I suppose I was one of the several people who bugged him extensively with patience-trying questions.

Best wishes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...

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Last edited by Wikiwide; 2014-10-04 at 12:56. Reason: misprint

nokiabot | # 39 | 2014-10-04, 18:08 | Report

I deleted my post as wikiwides is better explained @estel

From Vertu with Love | # 40 | 2014-10-30, 14:35 | Report

Maybe Jolla can tick off one of the reasons people are against it with this interesting TOH project. On top of this, the most recent opt-in update has made a lot of owners fall back in love with their handset.

As for advice to OP, I'd go for the horse that no-one's backing - BlackBerry. It's closed, but it's really very good. I had a Z10 for a few months at the start of this year as my daily driver, and the card-based multitasking worked very well. The app situation is a lot better than Jolla, and it also has the ability to run Android apps. The OS feels finished, rather than a work in progress - and with a Q5, Q10 or Passport you can have far better specs than other devices mentioned (plus a very good hardware keyboard).

Look into it at least.