From Vertu with Love | # 21 | 2015-04-23, 16:04 | Report

More when it comes to Android. They're locked into a set of agreements that means while HTC produce Google-Android phones (the only type that'll sell in the western world), they're unable to produce or sell any phones with Android compatibility that don't run Google's exact version of Android. It goes by the innocuous name of the 'Open Handset Alliance'.

It's why there won't be an HTC Kindle, a Sony BlackBerry, an Acer Aliyun - or an Alien Dalvik-toting Sailfish OS device from any one of these manufacturers.

It means that for for HTC's bread and butter (smartphones), Google can leverage an unfair amount of control over what they do.

herpderp | # 22 | 2015-04-23, 16:07 | Report

One can argue that those terms of the OHA are there to protect Android from fragmentation.

Still HTC could release a Sailfish phone without Alien Dalvik.

From Vertu with Love | # 23 | 2015-04-23, 16:14 | Report

Just as Microsoft valiantly sought to prevent the fragmentation of web standards by bundling Internet Explorer with their incredibly popular OS, and not allowing OEMs to install alternatives?

And they could, but they're not stupid - it'd be DOA. No Dalvik = no official WhatsApp. That means next to no sales in Europe, which is the primary market for any Sailfish device. Google know that they're stopping competition by preventing the release of Android-compatible competitors.

pichlo | # 24 | 2015-04-23, 16:23 | Report

FWIW, Jolla has released a Sailfish phone without Alien Dalvik

herpderp | # 25 | 2015-04-23, 16:39 | Report

That's not the same thing. For one, IE was never open source. Anybody can take Android's source and fork it, they just can't release devices with it and label it as official android (they won't get play services for it, for example).

The more reason for Jolla to focus on supporting developers of native apps (hint hint: payed apps).

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Last edited by herpderp; 2015-04-23 at 16:44.

marxian | # 26 | 2015-04-23, 17:03 | Report

It is the same. It's Google trying to force their services onto device manufacturers by preventing the release of devices that come without those services. Those services are being bundled into Android in the same way that IE was bundled into Windoze. The fact that Android is open source is irrelevant to this. It would be like Linus Torvalds saying 'you can't release a Linux device without my personal approval'.

herpderp | # 27 | 2015-04-23, 17:31 | Report

I disagree. You can create an Android handset without Play Services and release it, without anyone suing you, see for example Amazon.

OTOH you could never release a device with Windows and leave out IE. Even removing it was impossible, which you can do on Android if you root your device.

From Vertu with Love | # 28 | 2015-04-23, 17:52 | Report

Actually, no, they can't. Aliyun is an AOSP fork without Google Play services (much like Amazon's Fire OS). Google stopped Acer from releasing a phone with the OS, as it violates the Open Handset Alliance terms.

Alibaba: "Our partner was notified by Google that if the product runs Aliyun OS, Google will terminate its Android-related cooperation and other technology licensing with our partner"

They're leveraging their extremely popular (market share %) OS + app suite (which OEMs can't unbundle) to effectively force OEMs into contractual agreements which forbid them from selling devices with competing Operating Systems. This is anti-competition.

Google aren't allowed leverage the popularity of their OS + app suite to stifle competition - it's textbook abuse of monopoly. Google knows that if these OEMs try to 'go it alone' without Google's Android (and all that's bundled with it), they'll crash and burn. Much like how Microsoft knew OEMs would accept IE being bundled, because going it alone (with Linux or their own OS) would not be viable.

As a footnote, do you know who manufactures the Fire OS (Kindle Fire) tablets? Quanta Computing. Members of the Open Handset Alliance (which include the majority of Android OEMs) are contractually forbidden to produce Android devices based on forks of the OS.

This is a fairly good read regarding what's being discussed in this thread.

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Last edited by From Vertu with Love; 2015-04-23 at 18:01.

ZogG | # 29 | 2015-04-23, 18:32 | Report

With all these said, there are ROMs of android without Google services and you can release phone with it, you lose Google support, but if you can replace it(provide alternative) it's not a problem. So it's not the same as IE, which was hard corded and forced as part of the code, while Google services are are just more like pass to google's eco system. In other words, IE is there in code, you can't uninstall it, but you are not forced to use it, while Google services are there and you can choose to not provide them, but you loose apps, maps and etc and in some ways you loose users.
CM are going to release ROM with alternative to Google services this year AFAIK

smoku | # 30 | 2015-04-23, 20:48 | Report

Take a read how did that work for Amazon and Samsung: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/...ans-necessary/