DrYak | # 251 | 2017-08-03, 11:04 | Report

Actually, Palm handled it nicely back in the PalmOS era (both with the hardware foldable keyboards and the on-screen one that can be used instead of Graffiti) :
The keyboard layout is US,
but nearly any additional symbol is available by using "Alt"+key (and those Alt combo follow the same layout as the on-screen display of alternative chars).


By the way, I hope that this upcoming device will easily work with rotation in any orientation. (Or at least can easily be patched to)
I would love using it in "reverse portrait" (with the connectors on the top, like current jolla device).
Useful to plug in earphone (or a powerbank) when in the pocket.

Also doesn't require a dock when charging on a desk while propped up (e.g.: to use with a full sized bt keyboard)

merpl | # 252 | 2017-08-03, 11:31 | Report

For now, I suggest buying a Droid 4 (xt894) and putting Sailfish OS on it.

The Jolla Store was just opened for it, and it's a fabulous device with hardware keyboard.

Cameras work, GPS seems to work, bluetooth file sending/receiving works, phone calls/SMS work....

Could use a better keyboard map to include more symbols and make use of the SYM and OK keys...

CPU plenty fast, 1GB RAM is too small for SFDroid though.

marmistrz | # 253 | 2017-08-03, 11:50 | Report

I see that glass screen has been chosen but maybe we should rethink it. Glass screen have that beautiful property (every phone manufacturing company will agree) that they break really easily!

And a QWERTY slider can't be put in an extremely heavy duty case to prevent the screen from cracking.

Maybe we should rather go for a plastic screen, as the good ol' N900 had?

mr_pingu | # 254 | 2017-08-03, 12:00 | Report

Just like the N900 has. FN + Ctrl brings up the symbol dialog box

caa | # 255 | 2017-08-03, 14:49 | Report

Even if it is unlikely you will receive a reply, isn't contacting the suppliers or direct surely worth the time expended?

(It's not just Samsung with a monopoly now: LG Display, BOE Display, Tianma, and AUO, are worth contacting.) And surely whether they ignore you or not - as you mentioned - depends on the numbers you require, which depends on the popularity of the crowdfunding phase, which depends on how appealing the product is, which depends on the features... so perhaps OLED display should be a "stretch goal"?

Purely due to the number of advantages* that AMOLED/OLED would bring (so it is worth not ruling it out, at least not yet).

*Those advantages you already know being:

• Usually slightly thinner display module than LED-backlit LCD (which is quite important in this project)
• White colour accuracy (less colour tint) in real world examples.
• Truer blacks, with inherently better contrast ratio
• Already have the ability to mod Sailfish to enable the LPM (Low Power Mode) status screen, mainly applicable to OLED screens.
• Burn-in is less of a problem with latest generation panels (although I never had that problem with my N9). Also, switching between portrait/landscape should naturally mitigate burn-in somewhat.

On the camera specs:

Sensor: The Sony Exmor RS IMX378 (1/2.3", 12.2MP, 1.55μm cell size) would be the current acceptable size/performance compromise for me. Obviously this will probably be too high-end and expensive for your target price. (IMX260, IMX333, IMX362 would be possible second choices.)

I personally wouldn't bother with the dual rear cameras. No dual rear camera phone has yet matched the 'large sensor' camera phones in raw IQ (Nokia Pureview 808 or Panasonic CM1) despite what some benchmark websites claim.

Much more important than 'dual rear camera' for me would be: Addition of a physical shutter release button on the bottom right side of the phone in portrait mode (top right in landscape) which many phones do not have.


The full list of priorities for the rear camera for me would be: Large sensor (1/2.3 inch or larger); low MP count ~12 MP; single rear camera; f2.2 or faster aperture lens; physical shutter release button; on-sensor phase-detect AF; BSI sensor or stacked BSI sensor.

(Front camera is far less important for me.)

Great project by the way!! Nice renderings too, keep up the great work.

Thanks!

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Last edited by caa; 2017-08-03 at 15:14.

gerbick | # 256 | 2017-08-03, 14:50 | Report

All of the variants of keyboards might prove to be a sticking point to a lot of folks unfortunately.

Heck, I'd even go for a blank keyboard and let me label it - novel idea, not ideal I know.

Regardless, thank you for sharing these updates. I hope that many of us can place aside our petty squabbles and not place you in the precarious situation of where you have to cater to every keyboard like/dislike at the risk of losing a sale because of inflexibility.

Good luck on your endeavors.

TheKit | # 257 | 2017-08-03, 15:11 | Report

Personally I'm fine even with wrong labeled keyboard as long as there are enough keys to be remapped .

Macros | # 258 | 2017-08-03, 15:37 | Report

Offset keys aren't a good solution for a thumb typing keyboard as Kabouik explained quite well.

A quick google search reveals that mostly early landscape sliders like the T-Mobile G1 or the LG KS360 used them. I own a G1 and typing is very uncomfortable. Almost all later phones have the keys stacked on each other like our beloved N900. The Droid 4 has them shifted only very slightly.

So it would suggest not to imitate a keyboard from a much larger device but to use the solution which we know works well for thumb typing.

Kabouik | # 259 | 2017-08-03, 15:47 | Report

Funny, I actually naturally put my Jolla C upside down in my pocket all the time because I find it more convenient to reach it and then twist the wrist to look at the screen, except when I have to keep it up because of jack/earplugs, and in that case I find it less convenient. Chen's device will be perfect for me in that regard, always upside down in the pocket.

But in any case, I agree with you, patches to allow full rotation cannot hurt and they give flexibility to users with different preferences.

I think the hardware shutter button should not be a problem if the phone comes with Sailfish. We can already use volume key as shutter release on the Jolla phones, and this phone will inevitably have volume keys as well. Admittedly, volume keys are not ideally located on the phone since they tend to be on the top left when the phone is held in landscape mode, but this is still a good compromise if adding another button is too difficult.

The camera itself is not an selling point for me, it will not rival the cameras or lenses I use when I really want to take photos which means I will always feel frustrated even with the best phone camera if I only have this at hand when I really want to take pictures. Usually bad image quality is fine for me as I use phones just for souvenirs and actually high resolution would just eat SD card space for no real benefit in my case (therefore I agree on the low pixel count on a bigger sensor), but of course I can't tell better camera would hurt, as long as it does not increase the price tag too much. I also understand that it can be a significant marketing argument, not only for people who don't own other cameras but also for photographers who don't always carry their professional camera with them, and it has proven rewarding for previous "camera-phones" on the market. As you mentioned, it really depends on how much it impacts the final device price.

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Last edited by Kabouik; 2017-08-03 at 16:10.

catbus | # 260 | 2017-08-03, 20:18 | Report

And btw... what is the price? 400? 600? 1000? (euros)

Do i have to sell my car? Or house?