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Posts: 124 | Thanked: 213 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#11
May I suggest that it is somewhat ridiculous for a site dedicated to a mobile OS to not be an exemplary model of mobile site design?

This site is not well designed for such visually constrained devices.

We're so used to nice big hi-rez screens that we've abandoned the skills required to be conservative with screen real estate....it's a challenging job, getting it right for mobile devices!
 

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#12
I agree with Dak - the other problem I have is that on both the N810 AND the N900 the longer threads become difficult to navigate as the page links at top and bottom of the page become corrupted. Also the left pain with content is wider than the real estate without triggering a horzontal bar so can't scroll. Please test on the devices this forum is about please - bit daft otherwise!
 

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#13
Originally Posted by buurmas View Post
A fair point. One plug for tags: they (as opposed to categories) give thread creators the option of specifying more than one. Do we need/want that? If I recall correctly, there are cases of apps written for OS2007 that work in OS2008 without modification--perhaps those threads could have two OS tags. Also, IIUC, Mer and Fremantle are highly compatible, but not 100%. For example, some Fremantle software will take advantage of N900-specific hardware like the accelerometer. Also, right now, applications for Mer (like Tear) need to be put in a Mer repository. I'm not aware that Mer is officially pulling from the Fremantle repository yet, although perhaps that is on the near horizon. So I'm not sure if this is a good argument or not.
This is actually a very good point... and Mer is most certainly a great example of how dynamic this community is. Mer currently is nothing but a bastardized step-child somewhat related by a binary-or-two to the current Maemo 5 (ok, maybe not that bad, but its no where near complete, in my understanding.)

Eventually compatibility is the goal.. however I am highly doubtful that it will ever be 100%. But depending on how close it gets it may or may not be worth having it's own sub-forum. (which is why I listed it as optional.)

Also note, however, that in my solution I don't necessarily say we can't use tags, or to remove them. Tags are fine for a more granular search if someone chooses - because tags can include information not OS or Software specific. You can tag an application as "mp4,xvid,h.264" for example to specifically say your app adds these capabilities. However, we wouldn't make a sub-forum for every different codec a media app might provide.

And I had already put in my "known problems" that apps that apply to two different OS's would be a problem. Unfortunately, I just don't think we'll ever address *every* problem possible; and it is my personal opinion there would be less bleed from one category/OS to another, as bundling everything into one category, and relying solely on tags would be confusing to new-comers. A solution that addresses both these problems is definitely appreciated.

Dak and Fargus also have very good points about design and layout. I utterly fail at both, or I would try to add something into my solution about it. I recommend someone that can draw better than me (read: if you can draw a stig figure: you're better than me ) to go and post a solution to try and address this.
 

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#14
Just to say that I view the forum in conventional grey-and-orange on the desktop and laptop, but use the 'classic dark' on the tablet as they layout is much, much easier.
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#15
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
The solution building for this one is going to have to run a while, I'm sure.
NO! NO! NO! NO! We have already lost N8x0 users, and the longer we wait the more we lose. Yes, I have a specific agenda, and I don't want it sacrificed. I want changes that will preserve a viable Diablo community, and that community has already taken a hit because this grossly overdue "re-structuring" has been so tardy already.

Texrat, you yourself said:

Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
The implementation isn't complicated at all, and I don't think I ever said it needed to be. Heck I could craft something up in half an hour or less, have it in a day later, done.
OK, take your time on re-structuring categories, but my Solution #1* (filtering by checkbox) is straightforward, would help N8x0 users immensely and immediately, and would be compatible with whatever else everyone comes up with over your long "while."

I wish you would place your efforts on the side of a quick implementation. Because you are interested in the N900 you have no idea how useless and inefficient this forum feels for someone who doesn't share that interest.

There is no reason to wait for other aspects of a re-structuring. I want it now, and that's reasonable.

*Dave Pat's Solution #5 (allowing Advanced Searches with blank keywords) likewise is straightforward, and it's particularly commendable for its simplicity. My only issues with it are that it doesn't make for easy New Posts searches with all the functionality the New Posts button currently offers and it very inconveniently forces the user to choose the categories every time he initiates a search.
 
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#16
Can you explain how to filter, by checkbox, the current structure of this forum - quickly - and get the information you want?

N800, N810 and N900 are all in the same categories, I doubt they are all tagged properly, what exactly are you going to put a "checkbox" on for people to search by?

The solution regarding allowing Null Searches and just selecting certain areas is a little more feasible.. but you're still going to get noise because they are all intermingled with eachother as it is.
 
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#17
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
Can you explain how to filter, by checkbox, the current structure of this forum - quickly - and get the information you want?

N800, N810 and N900 are all in the same categories, I doubt they are all tagged properly, what exactly are you going to put a "checkbox" on for people to search by?

The solution regarding allowing Null Searches and just selecting certain areas is a little more feasible.. but you're still going to get noise because they are all intermingled with eachother as it is.
There are various ways it could be done. It can almost be done now.

For example, the user could go to Advanced Search. There is already a list of the 29 sub-categories there, under the heading "Search in Forum(s)." Currently you can select which forums to search by clicking on a forum you want so that it's highlighted, and then clicking on another you want while holding down the Control Key (at least in Windows that's the proper key for this).

So, for example, if I click on only "Devices:N800" and use "gpodder" as my keyword, I get 12 hits, all in threads that are in the N800 category (or, as this website likes to put it, in "Forum: Nokia N800"). If I use the Control key and add the category for "OS2008 / Maemo 4 / Chinook - Diablo" (so that I now have two categories selected) and I again use "gpodder" as my keyword, I get 19 hits (that is, 19 threads). (As you would expect, if I select only "OS2008 / Maemo 4 / Chinook - Diablo", I get 7. If I use the two I already used plus "Maemo 5 / Fremantle," I get 28.)

So having checkboxes, instead of having to hold down the Control Key, to select multiple categories (or what the website refers to as "forums") is trivial. It's just clearer and easier (at least to me).

Then I want the website to remember my last selection of "forums" (what I usually call Categories or Sub-Categories). (Currently the website resets it each time once I close the search.) Once it is remembered, I want to be able to hit the New Posts button and have it do exactly what it already does for New Posts -- but omitting threads according to the filters I had set when I was last in Advanced Search, that is, according to the "forums" I had selected when I last did an Advanced Search.
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for N8x0/Diablo Users! Register and Vote for Solution #1 on this Brainstorm. (The Solution will let you see New Posts with any threads you choose -- like the N900 and Maemo5/Fremantle threads -- filtered out.) (To understand the Solution better, see these posts #17, #18, and #19.)
 

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#18
Ok, I understand. However, gpodder could also be under multimedia right?? So I did a search for gpodder selecting only Multimedia under software. 15 hits. So then I did a search for "gpodder n800" in Multimedia and still got 3 hits.

But how are we to know if any of the other 12 hits are related to the N800? They could be related to any hardware.

Anyway.. the point is your search system is not giving you all the information. I suppose implementing will get you a "most"... but it's possible the solution to someone's problem could easily be missed if it falls through their search strings.
 

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#19
Sure, all I was doing was giving an example of how the website already has a filtering mechanism.

I'm really trying to accomplish primarily one thing: make this forum viable again for people who use Diablo and aren't much interested in the N900/Fremantle posts that absolutely, overwhelmingly swamp the posts that are relevant to us.

And the way I'm saying this goal could readily be accomplished is by making New Posts effective for us. (I think most regular contributors rely on going regularly to the New Posts button.)

So the way I (and I believe most people in my situation) would use my "checkbox filtering with memory" is to check off almost every category except Fremantle and N900 and Off Topic. From the point of view of someone interested primarily in the pre-N900 era of Maemo devices, that would clear out the vast amount of irrelevant threads and let us (a) way more efficiently see what we care about and (b) feel like we still have a home here.

Go through New Posts and count what percentage of threads that would eliminate -- its a huge percentage. It's not a perfect solution, but it would truly be a giant step; indeed, although imperfect, it would be sufficient.

I also know there would be threads that are in the "Applications Forum" or "Multimedia Forum" that I wish I could get omitted, but would show up despite the filter because of the deficiency in the organization of the Categories and Sub-Categories ("Forums"). Yes, they need to be re-organized. But that need does not mean the filter-with-memory solution wouldn't be a huge help; and there is no reason for that need to delay implementation of a New Posts filtering system.

(BTW, now and then I would look through N900 and Off Topic posts, due to general interest. The N900 isn't for me, but I do care about future Maemo development. I just don't want to be forced to go through it all the time.)

EDIT: I also want to point out that Solution #1 does nothing to hurt N900 users -- and would, in fact, help them, too, by letting them filter out Categories they don't always care about. I hope that N900 users will vote for Solution #1 also as a sort of support for Minority Rights on the forum! We few N8x0/770 users that still frequent the forum really need it! Be kind!

Last edited by GeraldKo; 2009-12-18 at 22:10.
 

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#20
Gerald, how soon you forgot what I also said about breaking solutions into manageable chunks.

For the life of me I don't know why you would think I ever suggested all solutions need to be implemented simultaneously, when for the entire existence of Brainstorm I have advocated the opposite.

Let the overall solution building run a while-- but that in no way implies easy ones can't be implemented while deeper discussion progresses.

I really feel your tirade at me is inappropriate and unfair, to say the least.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2009-12-17 at 05:07.
 
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