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Porting apps to Leste (32)
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[ANNOUNCE] CSSU-thumb thread - stable Thumb2 on N900 (2,264)
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2010-01-05
, 20:00
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@ Washington, DC
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#32
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A few comments.
Deep pockets - Google spent $757 million on R&D in the September quarter, Nokia spent $1,257 million. Half a billion more than Google.
New phone/OS - Nokia has been making mobile phones since the beginning and tablets since 2005. Maemo was first released in 2005.
While the original iPhone had a hardware advantage (touch), current phones are essentially generic when it comes to hardware. No phone has an advantage in all areas. The differentiation is what a phone can do and, right now, Android pwns the N900. You have an extensive and polished app store, you have integration with leading web apps out of the box, and you can get root if you want to.
Nokia cannot continue to use the argument that functionality will be available in the undated future. The app store needs to be populated. The OS needs to be fixed. A suite of phone applications (starting with portrait mode and features such as MMS) needs to be developed and implemented by Nokia.
If Nokia is to regain its leadership in the high end, it needs to beat "Droid does" (the US marketing slogan). "Nokia has the capability as soon as someone writes the software" just doesn't cut it.
Deep pockets - Google spent $757 million on R&D in the September quarter, Nokia spent $1,257 million. Half a billion more than Google.
New phone/OS - Nokia has been making mobile phones since the beginning and tablets since 2005. Maemo was first released in 2005.
While the original iPhone had a hardware advantage (touch), current phones are essentially generic when it comes to hardware. No phone has an advantage in all areas. The differentiation is what a phone can do and, right now, Android pwns the N900. You have an extensive and polished app store, you have integration with leading web apps out of the box, and you can get root if you want to.
Nokia cannot continue to use the argument that functionality will be available in the undated future. The app store needs to be populated. The OS needs to be fixed. A suite of phone applications (starting with portrait mode and features such as MMS) needs to be developed and implemented by Nokia.
If Nokia is to regain its leadership in the high end, it needs to beat "Droid does" (the US marketing slogan). "Nokia has the capability as soon as someone writes the software" just doesn't cut it.
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2010-01-05
, 20:03
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Joined on Apr 2008
@ Gainesville, FL
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#33
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Ah, fair enough. OS. That's what it really boils down to for you then, the power of a desktop OS in the palm of your hand. I can appreciate that.
The underlying Operating is more of a Desktop than it is a mobile phone. Desktop software runs on the N900.. not just "phone"-ized software written by random people.
It is easier to port desktop software to the N900 than any other device on the market. This makes it more of a mobile desktop than a phone. Now, the fact that said desktop software is *not* available yet goes to the youngness of it. In Maemo 4 we had Gnumeric, Abiword, etc all ported. Which means I am using *exactly* the same software on my desk at home, as on my new "phone". This puts the N900 into a category of it's own.
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2010-01-05
, 20:06
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Joined on Dec 2009
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#34
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Originally Posted by DaveP1
That's all well and good, but how many more phones/OSs does Nokia have to "research" than Google? Nokia has to do hardware "and" software", for multiple product lines.
A few comments.
Deep pockets - Google spent $757 million on R&D in the September quarter, Nokia spent $1,257 million. Half a billion more than Google....
That said, not all business leadership, nor shareholder bases, are created equal.
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2010-01-05
, 20:08
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Posts: 177 |
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Joined on Apr 2008
@ Gainesville, FL
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#35
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Originally Posted by DaveP1
The dollar comparison is apple to mangoes as Nokia is spending research dollars on hardware in addition to at least 3 operating systems, of which at least one has multiple versions. (DOH colnago, while you type faster than me!)
A few comments.
Deep pockets - Google spent $757 million on R&D in the September quarter, Nokia spent $1,257 million. Half a billion more than Google.
New phone/OS - Nokia has been making mobile phones since the beginning and tablets since 2005. Maemo was first released in 2005.
While the original iPhone had a hardware advantage (touch), current phones are essentially generic when it comes to hardware. No phone has an advantage in all areas. The differentiation is what a phone can do and, right now, Android pwns the N900. You have an extensive and polished app store, you have integration with leading web apps out of the box, and you can get root if you want to.
Nokia cannot continue to use the argument that functionality will be available in the undated future. The app store needs to be populated. The OS needs to be fixed. A suite of phone applications (starting with portrait mode and features such as MMS) needs to be developed and implemented by Nokia.
If Nokia is to regain its leadership in the high end, it needs to beat "Droid does" (the US marketing slogan). "Nokia has the capability as soon as someone writes the software" just doesn't cut it.
Is there ( I didn't see it) a list floating around of app essential to the user experience that Android/iphone (either or) have that the n900 does not have? I'm not interested in fart apps.
Last edited by iamNarada; 2010-01-05 at 20:09. Reason: relevance
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2010-01-05
, 20:08
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#36
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Originally Posted by DaveP1
Right... and Windows 3.1 == Windows 7.
New phone/OS - Nokia has been making mobile phones since the beginning and tablets since 2005. Maemo was first released in 2005.
As has been said.. Maemo 3 <> Maemo 4 <> Maemo 5. Completely different operating systems. Granted... they are quite a bit more similar than Windows 3.1 and Windows 7 - but it just goes to show that just because something shares a similar name does *not* make it the same thing.
Nokia has been working on several different OS's, not just Maemo. Google has Android and Chrome.. and Apple Mobile has.. well.. whatever the hell they call that thing.. and windows has WinMo.
Since Apple, google, and windows only have the *one* mobile OS they are able to dedicate all their mobile resources to the one platform.
Nokia has at least 1 mobile phone OS and 1 mobile tablet OS if not more. So it's a bit more fractured than the rest. (not including old versions)
Gripes that I do understand: A date should be released for the firmware update everyone wants. An actual date.. not "when it's done". While us geeks don't mind that.. users do not like the answer "You'll get it when you get it."
Also, a detailed list of whats actually going to be there should be done.. as far as timeline though - doesn't matter. Just as long as there *is* one.
However.. constantly comparing a device thats already out to devices that are yet to be released is just sad. The N900 compares just fine to all the multitude of Android 1.5 or 1.6 phones that are out right now. And, well, pretty much anything beats the iPhone
(hides).
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2010-01-05
, 20:14
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Posts: 177 |
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Joined on Apr 2008
@ Gainesville, FL
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#37
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
LOL. I'll concur with you on that last bit.
Right... and Windows 3.1 == Windows 7.
As has been said.. Maemo 3 <> Maemo 4 <> Maemo 5. Completely different operating systems. Granted... they are quite a bit more similar than Windows 3.1 and Windows 7 - but it just goes to show that just because something shares a similar name does *not* make it the same thing.
Nokia has been working on several different OS's, not just Maemo. Google has Android and Chrome.. and Apple Mobile has.. well.. whatever the hell they call that thing.. and windows has WinMo.
Since Apple, google, and windows only have the *one* mobile OS they are able to dedicate all their mobile resources to the one platform.
Nokia has at least 1 mobile phone OS and 1 mobile tablet OS if not more. So it's a bit more fractured than the rest. (not including old versions)
Gripes that I do understand: A date should be released for the firmware update everyone wants. An actual date.. not "when it's done". While us geeks don't mind that.. users do not like the answer "You'll get it when you get it."
Also, a detailed list of whats actually going to be there should be done.. as far as timeline though - doesn't matter. Just as long as there *is* one.
However.. constantly comparing a device thats already out to devices that are yet to be released is just sad. The N900 compares just fine to all the multitude of Android 1.5 or 1.6 phones that are out right now. And, well, pretty much anything beats the iPhone
How does it compare (in your estimation) to devices running 2.01, which have been out as long as the n900.
And, again, it sounds like what's being said is that Nokia hasn't devoted comparable resources to development of the n900. Oh sure, the "reason" being given is the competitors only have one platform, and it's true, but I don't think that's going to cut it.
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2010-01-05
, 20:28
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Joined on Oct 2009
@ London
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#38
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Originally Posted by twoboxen
man you're missing the point. Nokia lack of innovation ? compared to HTC ? You trying to tell me Android is better than Maemo. Dont believe the HYPE.
The nexus one reveal is also showing a lot of new features in Android 2.1. Every version Google is throwing some really useful new features in.
My favorites from 2.0? REAL navigation software... OVI maps looks RIDICULOUS next to that. Also, the voice command is so useful.
My favorite from 2.1? Voice entry in any field! Real email dictation. The 3D integrated into the core OS is really nice, too.
Android does this and Nokia can't push out bug fixes, much less new features? I don't buy the "it just came out" argument or the "step 4 of 5" defense. This is supposed to be a premiere device, but the OS is supposed to be the 4th generation of a "mature" OS. Why does my exchange still not work? Where is the innovation???
The hardware is nice, but I'm REALLY wanting to find some other motivated people to work with on porting Android. I had hoped to fall in love with Maemo/Nokia. I'm holding onto hope, but with Nokia's lack of communication and lack of innovation, it might not be too long before i look to sell this guy and move to a Nexus One. I'll miss the keyboard, but I won't need it as much with voice entry and multi-touch.
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2010-01-05
, 20:29
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#39
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Originally Posted by twoboxen
I'm going to play devil's advocate here... Maemo OS 2005, OS 2006, OS 2007, OS 2008, Diablo (4.1) and Fremantle 5.0... versus 1.0, 1.1, 1.5, 1.6, 2.0 and 2.1. Even though Maemo has been around for longer, Android has made some serious strides with more internal and external devs on its project and is starting to get more right than wrong.
Ah, poking the hornets' nest. So fun.
Maemo has been around longer than Android.
HINT: the first version was called OS2005.
Maemo has less devs in total and still gets some things wrong despite being around longer. Has less software... despite being around longer. Thankfully... has no fart apps though... so that's a good thing.
So why doesn't it have more of a share despite being around longer? Why isn't the mainstream software updated as much if Maemo has been around for longer? And above all, why aren't more apps present despite being around longer? And ultimately... why isn't OVI ready... despite being around longer?
Remember, I'm playing devil's advocate...
I'm sorry, but are people really saying that Nokia doesn't have deep pockets? Maybe not close to Google, but I'm pretty sure they've been around the mobile market for a while. Where did all those sweet European S60 profits go?
I understand everyone getting defensive on a Maemo forum, but I just want you to consider the current state of other mobile operating systems and Maemo. I would like more innovation (well, at this point, some catch-up) and communication with their customers. I'm not giving up yet on n900/Maemo/Nokia, but, man... let's hope Nokia has something up their sleeves.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled random bashing of my views.
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2010-01-05
, 20:33
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@ Washington, DC
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#40
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Originally Posted by rmerren
If you want to compare the N900 to the iPhone, you're right. But don't kid yourself about Android. There is an SSH app and you can configure a VPN. You can get root and install Debian. If Nokia and its fanbois don't take Android seriously, Maemo will be forgotten.
The android fanbois will be dazzled by the same stuff the iPhone folks are impressed by.
You own a really cool phone which does lots of cool stuff. Useful stuff. Not just Hello Kitty apps
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