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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-01-06 , 20:03
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#51
Originally Posted by RevdKathy View Post
Not to dampen your pleasure at what's been a measured response, I suspect which forum this is posted in makes quite a differenc to the response. The regulars of some fora are more volatile than others, sadly.
Oh.. you mean everyone doesn't just use the "New Posts" button??

I never know what sub forum I am in lol. I would never have realized this or thought to look for it..
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RevdKathy is offline RevdKathy
2010-01-06 , 20:19
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#52
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
Oh.. you mean everyone doesn't just use the "New Posts" button??

I never know what sub forum I am in lol. I would never have realized this or thought to look for it..
No, we have some people who seldom venture out of their 'own' environment. They post all their material there, despite it often being more relevent elsewhere. It keeps the mods amused playing 'catch' tossing threads amongst themselves across the fora.

Seriously, threads in some fora are a lot more likely to get piled in on than others.

(New posts button only works is you're here all day and all night - otherwise you need to catch up in all fora once or twice a day. Admit it, you are, aren't you? )
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Laughing Man is offline Laughing Man
2010-01-06 , 20:19
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#53
Originally Posted by Tomaszd View Post
Then I advise the Super Moderators, whoever they are, to start banning. You will see initial backlash, martyrs blogging about how they got banned for nothing, but it just might work to have a peaceful conversation at tmo.
Banning has no point. It's relatively easy to get around a ban, even an IP ban. Unless your going ban a swath of IP addresses, but even that can be futile at times. That's pretty much the issue with any open forum, only by adding restrictions like a post count, amount of time since account creation date, a seperate restricted forum, etc.. can you control that.
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Originally Posted by ysss View Post
They're maemo and MeeGo...

"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
 
DaveP1 is offline DaveP1
2010-01-06 , 20:21
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#54
Originally Posted by RevdKathy View Post
Not to dampen your pleasure at what's been a measured response, I suspect which forum this is posted in makes quite a differenc to the response. The regulars of some fora are more volatile than others, sadly.
In the words of my teenager, true dat.

Let's not loose sight of one thing, however. The trolls are matched by the fanbois. For every "it sucks" troll there is at least one "you're too dumb to appreciate it" fanboi. Neither is constructive but, from the point of view of a new user who has encountered an issue with his shiny and expensive new phone, the fanboi response is far more damaging to Maemo.org, not to mention Nokia.

As a relatively happy N810 user who has not made a next generation phone decision yet, I have been known to peruse A*****d fora on occasion. One thing I have found is that in threads where the OP had a problem, while there have been fanboi responses, there typically have been more responses condemning and apologizing for the fanbois.

Let's keep in mind that everybody with a problem or a complaint is not a troll and responding to them in a civil and constructive manner, even if they weren't civil and constructive themselves, is a way to constructively build the community.
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-01-06 , 20:25
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#55
Originally Posted by DaveP1 View Post
In the words of my teenager, true dat.

Let's not loose sight of one thing, however. The trolls are matched by the fanbois. For every "it sucks" troll there is at least one "you're too dumb to appreciate it" fanboi. Neither is constructive but, from the point of view of a new user who has encountered an issue with his shiny and expensive new phone, the fanboi response is far more damaging to Maemo.org, not to mention Nokia..
I strongly disagree.

"Fanbois" are neuter without troll provocation.

Originally Posted by DaveP1 View Post
Let's keep in mind that everybody with a problem or a complaint is not a troll and responding to them in a civil and constructive manner, even if they weren't civil and constructive themselves, is a way to constructively build the community.
That's an "it depends", not an absolute.

Malcontents/sociopaths are going to cause trouble no matter what-- and they're fairly easy to distinguish from someone who is just upset over a bad experience.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2010-01-06 at 20:31.
 

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qole is offline qole
2010-01-06 , 20:30
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#56
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Don't post it if it's pointless.
Wow, the Internet would be a ghost town if we played by those rules.

Just want to say that it takes two types to tango in the Troll Dance, the Trolls and the Bait-Takers.

The Trolls can't survive without the Bait-Takers. They use all sorts of loaded words and unfair arguments, even calling the bait-takers "trolls" as part of their game, to get them riled up so they'll fire back a long defense. Which is really all they want. Once the fire is burning strongly, they feed off of the negativity...

The bait-takers are sincere, helpful people. They also like to argue on the Internet. Their biggest mistake is taking the crap the Trolls dish out seriously. Bait-takers assume that when someone posts a complaint, that they are really complaining, not trolling.

Unfortunately, these forums are full of Bait-Takers. They are a huge sheep farm to the Trolls, or perhaps I should call them Chupacabras.

Bait-takers: Relax! Please take the troll threads and these posters lightly. Don't let them feed from your life force. Just like the mythical trolls of old turned to stone in daylight, Internet trolls cannot stand it when you don't take them seriously.

If you want to argue with them, do so with a smile, knowing that they aren't serious, either.
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RevdKathy is offline RevdKathy
2010-01-06 , 20:31
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#57
Originally Posted by DaveP1 View Post
In the words of my teenager, true dat.

Let's not loose sight of one thing, however. The trolls are matched by the fanbois. For every "it sucks" troll there is at least one "you're too dumb to appreciate it" fanboi. Neither is constructive but, from the point of view of a new user who has encountered an issue with his shiny and expensive new phone, the fanboi response is far more damaging to Maemo.org, not to mention Nokia.

As a relatively happy N810 user who has not made a next generation phone decision yet, I have been known to peruse A*****d fora on occasion. One thing I have found is that in threads where the OP had a problem, while there have been fanboi responses, there typically have been more responses condemning and apologizing for the fanbois.

Let's keep in mind that everybody with a problem or a complaint is not a troll and responding to them in a civil and constructive manner, even if they weren't civil and constructive themselves, is a way to constructively build the community.
I think part of what saddens me is that this shows a false perception. People who turn up with a problem, whether major or minor, almost certainly find some sort of solution. I'd say we seem to have a team around here answering questions at different levels.

Just in the last few hours I've seen someone do something they were specifically advised not to, then shout and rant they needed help: they got a bit of a ticking off but they still got help.

In reality the people with a real problem they can describe get help if help can be given: if it can't they'll be helped to submit a bug (or it will be submitted for them). Check Andre's 'recent posts' - he goes through the random compaints asking people to be more specific at least once a day.

The people who have a proper critical viewpoint get debated (and yeah, there will be some fanboi-ism in there too). But well-presented comment on faults, weaknesses and features missing are generally treated appropriately.

What gets piled in on are the people who don't seem to have a good thing to say, and are fairly vague about why. "It sucks!" doesn't invite help or debate. It only wants to rant. And it attracts counter rants.

The sad bit is that people see those big, shouty threads and think they're the bulk of t.m.o. They're not: statistically they're a small (albeit unpleasant) proportion.

It would be great to do away with them, but I doubt we'd succeed. Maybe we need a 'romper-room' forum where mods could banish threads that go downhill like that, and people who want to rant could do so to their root's content. Apparently some people don't know which forum they're actually in anyway.
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Laughing Man is offline Laughing Man
2010-01-06 , 20:31
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#58
I find fanboys as annoying as trolls. Even worse since they may lead people down the wrong path (e.g. getting the device when it may not suit that individual).
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Originally Posted by ysss View Post
They're maemo and MeeGo...

"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-01-06 , 20:31
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#59
Originally Posted by qole View Post
Wow, the Internet would be a ghost town if we played by those rules.
It was a tongue-in-cheek response to a previous snarky comment.
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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-01-06 , 20:31
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#60
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I strongly disagree.

"Fanbois" are neuter without troll provocation.
I disagree there texrat. SOME people do respond negatively to posts that normally *may* not deserve it.

The problem is when someone has something that doesn't work right, or not in the way they expect, they get mad. It happens. We all get mad. Some of us take a breather, and post a nice detailed post with a question. But I think that is mostly people that have been around forums, and helpdesks for a long time. We know how frustrating it is.

Other people get mad, and just come to the forum seeking an answer. Now, I can't entirely fault the behavior.. if they come and say "Why can't I do XYZ?" and someone else says "Do This".. no problem.

But we do have *some* people that will respond "because you're a *****.. get an iphone". And yes, it's as equally unhelpful as a troll.

I do believe, however, that the *number* of posts like this is significantly beneath what Dave is representing. In NO way have I seen a 1:1 ratio of incoherent fanboi to troll.
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