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Poll: What is your opinion about the migration to Moblin/RPM
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What is your opinion about the migration to Moblin/RPM

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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-02-15 , 20:51
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#31
Originally Posted by maacruz View Post
There aren't .deb or .rpm developers. That's just like comparing ".msi" vs ".exe" developers. It is just a way of packaging binaries, a trivial issue in development.
You seem to be ignoring the history of this though... deb-based systems are typically more universally compliant than all the various rpm-based ones.

Yes, rpm is just a packaging system, and yes - you really get this movng from rpm distro to rpm distro that seem to not relate to eachother at all except they use rpms. Deb based systems are more similar to each other not just in the package management but also in actual system stucture.

To pretend MeeGo is going to look exactly like Maemo except we'll issue rpm -Uvh instead of dpkg -i seems quite silly to me.
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rm42 is offline rm42
2010-02-15 , 20:51
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#32
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
My question I do you think "more developers" because you are under the (I think mistaken) impression that there are more rpm developers than deb ones?

Or do you think more developers meaning because we are combining Moblin devs with Maemo devs? In this case, I think that would depend on how many maemo devs we lose to the switch. Hopefully not many... but it's possible.
What we have here is a dream come true! Those of us that have spent years around Linux have been dreaming about a world were every hardware manufacturer cooperates to make a core Linux OS better rather than continue on the nightmare treadmill of proprietary OSs. Maemo's disadvantage is that it is exclusive to Nokia devices. Now, I don't know what the reasons for not making Maemo fully free are. But, in any case, synergy between Nokia and Intel has resulted in a completely free Linux based distro already supported by two of the largest hardware manufacturers in the world. That is going to catch the eye of many commercial software developers. They are going to see that maybe MeeGo is a platform that has legs and that will be around for the long haul. There was still too much uncertainty circulating about Maemo's prospects. This move is boost for true, standard based, mobile Linux.
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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-02-15 , 20:56
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#33
Originally Posted by rm42 View Post
What we have here is a dream come true! Those of us that have spent years around Linux have been dreaming about a world were every hardware manufacturer cooperates to make a core Linux OS better rather than continue on the nightmare treadmill of proprietary OSs. Maemo's disadvantage is that it is exclusive to Nokia devices. Now, I don't know what the reasons for not making Maemo fully free are. But, in any case, synergy between Nokia and Intel has resulted in a completely free Linux based distro already supported by two of the largest hardware manufacturers in the world. That is going to catch the eye of many commercial software developers. They are going to see that maybe MeeGo is a platform that has legs and that will be around for the long haul. There was still too much uncertainty circulating about Maemo's prospects. This move is boost for true, standard based, mobile Linux.
No argument at all. I think people are misunderstanding me... I think MeeGo is a good thing if it's truly completely open. No doubt. Doesn't mean I can't have my annoyances with the switch to an rpm-base.
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titan is offline titan
2010-02-15 , 21:02
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#34
Originally Posted by maacruz View Post
There aren't .deb or .rpm developers. That's just like comparing ".msi" vs ".exe" developers. It is just a way of packaging binaries, a trivial issue in development.
exactly. The package format is irrelevant!
However, the distribution is not. WinCE is not Windows7. IphoneOS is not OSX.
Fedora is not Debian. Yes, they are both GNU/Linux distributions but the devil is in the details.
If all future Nokia devices were based on a completely new platform (e.g. 35bit Intel x91) for which neither Debian nor Fedora were ported it would make hardly any difference whether MeeGo would choose either of them.
But Debian has a long ARM and in general multiarch history while Fedora or Moblin does not. And, don't forget, Maemo5 and its apps are ARM based,too.
You underestimate the effort to port a whole distribution to ARM.
Backporting to x86 is much easier, because the software is usually written for x86 in the first place.

It is more developers because there will be less fragmentation, just one community instead of two. Just one plataform to debug instead of two. Will make things easyer, at least in theory.
yes, in theory! You'll also lose access to the whole Debian/Ubuntu crowd of maintainers who IMHO have done a really great job so far to make sure that their packages also work on ARM. I believe the number Fedora maintainers who actively work on the ARM port is much smaller...(not to be confused with the x86 Fedora maintainers)
 

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nightfire is offline nightfire
2010-02-15 , 21:08
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#35
I don't mean to be offensive, but anyone here who doesn't understand why Debian + APT/dpkg is superior to Redhat/Fedora + yum + RPM, please stop commenting!

If the only reason you don't care about it (or prefer RPM) is that you're more familiar with it, then you need to research! Debian is an extremely robust, well thought-out system ported to dozens of architectures, supported by thousands of dedicated, experienced maintainers.

The debian base filesystem, package layout, and dependency tree is mature and extremely well thought out. In-line patch application and cross compilers are flawless. The community is not greatly influenced by any one entity. Hundreds of Debian mirrors are established worldwide. Policies are well set and decision-making is an open process. The philosophy is a no-compromise GPL-compatible license and OSS system baseline.

Please, Nokia! Maemo is outstanding. Please don't cripple it with for months or years with a distribution change!

EDIT: I'm not trying to trash RedHat in any way. I support dozens of RHEL servers at my company, and it was one of my first distributions in the mid-90's. I've built hundreds of RPMs and in fact an entire RPM generator system for our company's internal software.

Before RedHat I ran Yggdrasil and Slackware. I've "been around" and recognize RedHat's phenomenal contributions to OSS.

I've also spent hundreds of hours hacking embedded Debian systems including an RC filght platform and car computer.

Debian is quite simply a superior system for handheld devices!
Last edited by nightfire; 2010-02-15 at 21:27.
 

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titan is offline titan
2010-02-15 , 21:10
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#36
This rpm vs. deb flamewar is offtopic! please stop it!

The thread is about the people who build the packages, their interests, background, the policies they follow, and most importantly, what they done so far.

Originally Posted by maacruz View Post
Again, switching to rpm means nothing more than adding a .spec file to the source tar.gz with all the patches that come in the source .deb, and rebuilding the package with "rpmbuild -ba package.spec". Nothing more, nothing less. You can do that in linux from scratch, if you are so inclined. And yes, building a debian system with rpm just requires adjusting the helper install scripts, which mostly aren't required in rpm.
Last edited by titan; 2010-02-15 at 21:15. Reason: topic
 
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ewan is offline ewan
2010-02-15 , 21:12
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#37
It would certainly help your case if people would just stop disagreeing with it, wouldn't it. But they probably won't because you're just plain wrong. Maemo may use the deb packaging format but it is not Debian. It does not follow Debian policy. It does not use Debian packages. It does not use Debian mirrors. It is not a 'no-compromise GPL-compatible license and OSS system baseline' (though, neither is Debian).

We're talking about the packaging format. Deb and RPM are equivalent.
 

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trbs is offline trbs
2010-02-15 , 21:14
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#38
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
No argument at all. I think people are misunderstanding me... I think MeeGo is a good thing if it's truly completely open. No doubt. Doesn't mean I can't have my annoyances with the switch to an rpm-base.
I would like to second that.

The cooperation and moving several mobile projects into one, can be a very very good thing for us all. But as for rpm and more specially the fedora base I can only feel the sorrow of losing something I really really loved.
 

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attila77 is offline attila77
2010-02-15 , 21:16
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#39
Originally Posted by ewan View Post
It would certainly help your case if people would just stop disagreeing with it, wouldn't it. But they probably won't because you're just plain wrong. Maemo may use the deb packaging format but it is not Debian. It does not follow Debian policy. It does not use Debian packages. It does not use Debian mirrors. It is not a 'no-compromise GPL-compatible license and OSS system baseline' (though, neither is Debian).
This is not entirely correct. In Maemo whenever there was a question about something that has not been defined by specific Maemo guidelines, Debian was almost invariably the fallback.

We're talking about the packaging format. Deb and RPM are equivalent.
All the more reasons to have a proper explanation why switch one for the other.
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titan is offline titan
2010-02-15 , 21:20
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#40
Neither Maemo nor Ubuntu exactly are Debian but they are based on it and are therefore
much more similar to each other than to Fedora or other rpm based distributions.
If you want to talk about packaging formats, please start a new thread (I'm indifferrent about deb vs. rpm).
Originally Posted by ewan View Post
It would certainly help your case if people would just stop disagreeing with it, wouldn't it. But they probably won't because you're just plain wrong. Maemo may use the deb packaging format but it is not Debian. It does not follow Debian policy. It does not use Debian packages. It does not use Debian mirrors. It is not a 'no-compromise GPL-compatible license and OSS system baseline' (though, neither is Debian).

We're talking about the packaging format. Deb and RPM are equivalent.
 

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