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Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,209 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#381
Originally Posted by mrojas View Post
Would you mind to expand? I am not doubting you, just want to learn more.
Maemo based itself on Debian from the beginning. Unfortunately, over time Nokia has introduced a lot of hackish modifications into the platform that have slowly caused divergence away from upstream (Debian) and failed to keep packages up to date (we're still on debhelper 5, upstream is at 7).

Basically, Maemo has become something that's only vaguely related to Debian and it affects people's ability to work with and on the platform.

Moblin, on the other hand, has a platform that uses up-to-date tools and doesn't have a tendency to compromise sanity to get a working product out the door.

Intel's bringing a strong platform expertise and Nokia's bringing the user experience.
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#382
The moblin user experience isn't that bad either, which isn't surprising since some of the same people (eg the gang formerly known as Opened Hand) contributed to both.
 
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#383
Well, I've slept on this. And I still don't like it.

It's not that I mind about it being fedora not debian - to be honst, I don't understand all that enough to have an informed opinion.

It's not that nobody had the courtesy to give our five (yes, just five) elected representatives a 24 hour heads up, leaving poor Valerio to carry it all on his own.

It's not even that the new name embodies all that I despise most in the corproate marketing of technology.

It's that I'm no longer sure I shall belong.

The moblin 'community' is basically made up of intel employees.
The moblin 'community' has expressed interest in working with the Maemo developer community.

So far so good. But maemo.org is made up not only of developers and highly technically knowlegdeable people. Maemo.org includes, supports and values end users. Average bears.

Now, end users are a mixed blessing. We make a lot of noise and chatter. Some of us are useful contributers but frankly, some of us are not. A quick wander through t.m.o. quickly reveals the downside as well as the upside of having end users around. Heck, let's be honest, there are people in maemo.org who'd like to get rid of us! One or two individuals who would happily kill the forum completely to get back to the 'heart' of the comunity as they see it. (And I suspect they're already suggesting that Meego might provide just that opportunity.)

There are wise people saying that it's 'up to us' to shape the future, to decide what we want Meego to be. But is it? Honestly? If Intel said to Nokia "We want your community but get rid of the end users" would Nokia refuse? Would Maemo?

So I'll Wait and See. But I might be around just a little less, and I might be looking for a new 'home', just in case.
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#384
Originally Posted by RevdKathy View Post
There are wise people saying that it's 'up to us' to shape the future, to decide what we want Meego to be. But is it? Honestly? If Intel said to Nokia "We want your community but get rid of the end users" would Nokia refuse? Would Maemo?
Nobody can make you go anywhere if you don't let them.

You may not be able to be on "talk.maemo.org", or it to even exist - but there is nothing stopping another N900 community-driven forum from springing up.
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#385
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
Nobody can make you go anywhere if you don't let them.

You may not be able to be on "talk.maemo.org", or it to even exist - but there is nothing stopping another N900 community-driven forum from springing up.
Thereby splitting the community into the development people in one place, and the end users in another. What makes maemo.org special is that we're all in the same (sometimes crowded and noisy) box together. Yes, I know the devs need places where they can be on their own for their complicated technical conversation: maemo.org allows for that.

But this place also provides a place where one can start a thread titled "Artists and designers - I need help" or "Game - a suggestion" and get the attention of people who can actually respond. Devs can bring their items to the table, get input, ideas, feedback and testers from ordinary users.

Splitting us into two communities would destroy something very valuable which maemo has created. I don't want a separate 'user community'.
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#386
Originally Posted by RevdKathy View Post
Thereby splitting the community into the development people in one place, and the end users in another. What makes maemo.org special is that we're all in the same (sometimes crowded and noisy) box together. Yes, I know the devs need places where they can be on their own for their complicated technical conversation: maemo.org allows for that.

But this place also provides a place where one can start a thread titled "Artists and designers - I need help" or "Game - a suggestion" and get the attention of people who can actually respond. Devs can bring their items to the table, get input, ideas, feedback and testers from ordinary users.

Splitting us into two communities would destroy something very valuable which maemo has created. I don't want a separate 'user community'.
No fear Kathy!
We don't get splittet!
Everything will even get better!
I had a conversation this morning. It's a really good thing happening at the moment!
 
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#387
Originally Posted by zehjotkah View Post
No fear Kathy!
We don't get splittet!
Everything will even get better!
I had a conversation this morning. It's a really good thing happening at the moment!
Coming from most people I'd call Bull doodoo on "I had a conversation this morning" but I'll take that from you. As I say, I'm in 'wait and see' mode. But if this ends up dividing the techies from the bears into two communities, that would be a great tragedy, IMNSHO. And I for one don't need that.

I had a conversation this morning too: God said "Sorry, love, I have no sway over what Nokia do or say".
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#388
I'm not worried at all about the future of all this. From a technical viewpoint, it's a perfect fit (even if the deb2rpm move might worry us a bit :-). In fact, the whole thing right now is probably more about marketing, platform momentum, big annnouncement and showing off. IMHO Maemo 6 / Harmattan already IS MeeGo, otherwise the announced release dates wouldn't be doable. And one of the most important elements of Maemo 6, which is QT 4.6, will come to Maemo5 in the next firmware update. Intel and Nokia also have experience working together on the oFono telephony framework which may be part of Maemo 6. And it will all be open.

I also sincerely believe that the "community" is overestimating itself heavily. Just look at the signal-to-noise ratio on the community list and in this forum. Make a list of results that the work of the Community Council really did produce. What brings a platform forward are two things:
  • Openness and Accessibility (so people can tinker with it and have fun in a creative way).
  • Developers developers developers (to quote Steve Ballmer :-). The people writing the applications you install. There are perhaps a 100-200 people writing apps for maemo right now (see that in relation to x0'000 users here in this forum (only a few hundred posting) and x00'000 of users with N900.)
MeeGo improves both these points. The platform opens even more, gets broader support and chances increase that more application development will happen.

Communities will arise automatically from that. Many other platforms have forums where devs and users meet. This isn't that special here. What IS special is that we have Nokians posting as Nokians. And if we take good enough care of them, they will hopefully be around in the future, too
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#389
Originally Posted by RevdKathy View Post
It's not even that the new name embodies all that I despise most in the corproate marketing of technology.


Still disliking the interpretational "Me Ego" part? Your intention may be good but your morals get in your way.

Reality Check: With Android (much more than Windows Mobile) there is no doubt that you as an end-user get seriously "bugged". It is not your own device, you may own the hardware, but it is Google's software which you "rent", and the payment method is usage content you generate. Now THAT's what >I< hate about the corporate world.

Nothing wrong with an brand name interpretation promising to make your device your own.

Nothing wrong with reestablishing the concept of SUBJECT in the mobile world. (It's a market gap indeed.)

A cloud based OS, a place where supposedly everyone must be happy, playing the harp unisono?
No thanks, instead bring back some "old-fashioned" egocentricity, please.

Alternatively, look at the "Ego" aspect the Freudian way.
 

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#390
What about the 770 - N8x0 tablets?

From the original information I got the faint impression that talk.maemo.org will get a rebranding but is considered something they want to incorporate into the meeme gogoo package.

But that leaves the tablets stranded. Unless your 770s will get a much unexpected new OS update. But then, I'd rather put my money on that having to happen through a MER-like project. And the hardware doesn't fit the requirements, right?
 
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