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ossipena is offline ossipena
2010-08-06 , 05:02
Posts: 3,159 | Thanked: 2,023 times | Joined on Feb 2008 @ Finland
#101
Originally Posted by Bec View Post
I'd really like to see what the "community council" has accomplished in the last while because all I hear is nothing.
I'd really like to see what you have accomplished outside ranting because all I can see is rant rant rant.
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ossipena's Avatar
ossipena is offline ossipena
2010-08-06 , 05:09
Posts: 3,159 | Thanked: 2,023 times | Joined on Feb 2008 @ Finland
#102
Originally Posted by daperl View Post
USB OTG was, is and always will be an official "no" from Nokia for the n900. I can find URLs if I have to, but please just believe me. Nokia failed USB OTG compliance and now it's too late. There will not be a chance to recertify the n900. It will officially always be just a USB peripheral device. Unofficially, host mode is still pending.
wasn't it something like OTG + charging standard was finished after N900 had been designed? or am I absolutely wrong?
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fms is offline fms
2010-08-06 , 05:19
Posts: 1,418 | Thanked: 1,541 times | Joined on Feb 2008
#103
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
If you commit to maintaining a repository which contains backported fixes, organise testing and ask for official council blessing, you can have it.
So, this should be done without the Community Council participation, right?

As Texrat says above though, we're not a "solution engine" (not sure if that's a pretentious term or not, but I like it ;-)). We'll try and make sure two people working on the same thing are aware of each other,
But the Internet is doing this job quite nicely, without Community Council's help, right?

and will put you in contact with people in Nokia if they can make insignificant changes (from their point of view) which would massively help your project.
Given Nokia's record of ignoring the community (as seen by both users reporting bugs and developers suffering from lack of information and repo breakage), why would a Maemo developer need to contact Nokia people? Besides, hasn't Nokia abandoned Maemo5, switching all development to Meego?

As for the council not doing anything, can anyone who got sponsored to the Amsterdam summit please send me a cheque covering their travel and accommodation costs? Anyone who's on the N900 device queue, we'll have those back too. I can stick them on eBay and use them to pay for the time we've invested in this platform and community.
As far as I know, all this should be attributed to Maemo Devices, represented by Quim Gil, and not to the Council.

We'll also stop working to trying to ease the mess of Qt in Extras; the MyNokia fiasco and trying to ensure a continuity of service and developer path to MeeGo.
Get back to me once you achieve any tangible result on these. A "thank you for your input" letter from Nokia does not count as a tangible result.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-08-06 , 05:28
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#104
Originally Posted by fms View Post
Get back to me once you achieve any tangible result on these. A "thank you for your input" letter from Nokia does not count as a tangible result.
*****ing is cheap and easy. My wife's idiot dog can do it.

Why didn't you run?
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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-08-06 , 06:46
Posts: 3,428 | Thanked: 2,856 times | Joined on Jul 2008
#105
So fms, your argument basically is:

Because Nokia is the one that actually did those things (Amsterdam sponsorship, free N900's, etc).. then even though those ideas may have been pioneered by and pushed up by the Council.. they shouldn't receive a lick of credit and everything should just be praise for Nokia?

... Am I missing something? I mean.. I know they say don't shoot the messenger.. but don't ignore them either.. without the messenger.. well you didn't get the message!
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Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2010-08-06 , 06:48
Posts: 2,535 | Thanked: 6,681 times | Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK
#106
Originally Posted by fms View Post
[Community SSU repo]So, this should be done without the Community Council participation, right?
Up to you. We'll help you. There's little point in us asking as the number of people who volunteer to do anything in this community is practically nil. Calls for participation in testing, organisation, process definition etc. always falls on lazy ears. So there's no point in us going to the community and asking "does anyone want to do this?", all we'll get is a set of Thanks! and no one willing to do the work.

[Collaboration]But the Internet is doing this job quite nicely, without Community Council's help, right?
History would say no.

[Nokia contacts]Given Nokia's record of ignoring the community (as seen by both users reporting bugs and developers suffering from lack of information and repo breakage), why would a Maemo developer need to contact Nokia people? Besides, hasn't Nokia abandoned Maemo5, switching all development to Meego?
There are still lots of experts in Nokia about Maemo. I can think of lots of circumstances where having an engineer to talk to from Nokia could be useful for numerous projects. Don't blame me for your lack of imagination.

[Sponsorship/device queue]As far as I know, all this should be attributed to Maemo Devices, represented by Quim Gil, and not to the Council.
Perhaps you should listen then when someone who knows more than you tries to correct "as far as you know". Quim has a limited amount of time, yes he provided the budget for the sponsorship but he could do other stuff whilst the council decided who got it. The council was also involved in choosing the event and helping organise it. Similarly, the device queue requires some admin work, reminders and triage - all roles the council perform.

Get back to me once you achieve any tangible result on these. A "thank you for your input" letter from Nokia does not count as a tangible result.
Why would I get back to you? You've made your mind up. I'm not going to try to dissuade you any more, I've got better things to be doing.
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Bec is offline Bec
2010-08-06 , 07:26
Posts: 876 | Thanked: 396 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#107
Originally Posted by daperl View Post
USB OTG was, is and always will be an official "no" from Nokia for the n900. I can find URLs if I have to, but please just believe me. Nokia failed USB OTG compliance and now it's too late. There will not be a chance to recertify the n900. It will officially always be just a USB peripheral device. Unofficially, host mode is still pending.
Even without OTG not all is lost. Host mode is still possible if they would barely bother to open source BME.

Does anyone at nokia even know of the efforts done to accomplish host mode?


Originally Posted by ossipena View Post
I'd really like to see what you have accomplished outside ranting because all I can see is rant rant rant.
I've accomplished as much as I could as a simple user, through brainstorms, bug reports and tutorial threads.

I would be glad if any of these rants would ever matter, but as qwerty "said", they don't since no one's listening.

Personally I'm going to wait one or two months more and if there's still no flash, then it's goodbye nokia for good. Why so sudden, well regarding bugs and brainstorms qwerty was the one who provided the most as far as my complaints/requests went.
As for the host mode project, that's stalled too, thanks to Nokia's ignorance (if they've even heard of it).
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fms is offline fms
2010-08-06 , 07:33
Posts: 1,418 | Thanked: 1,541 times | Joined on Feb 2008
#108
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
*****ing is cheap and easy. My wife's idiot dog can do it. Why didn't you run?
I did not run because I did not see a point in running. Initially, I did try to contribute to maemo.org design and organization, but quickly saw that my contributions were not welcome and switched to more fruitful pursuits.
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Bec is offline Bec
2010-08-06 , 07:36
Posts: 876 | Thanked: 396 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#109
What's with all the contribution? I expect decent support too and directly from nokia for my 500$ device. You guys seem to miss that.
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fms is offline fms
2010-08-06 , 07:42
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#110
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
History would say no.
I see people getting in touch with each other on IRC or t.m.o and working on projects jointly all the time, without any help from the Council. So, while your history says "no", my evidence appears to say "yes".

There are still lots of experts in Nokia about Maemo. I can think of lots of circumstances where having an engineer to talk to from Nokia could be useful for numerous projects. Don't blame me for your lack of imagination.
If I do need a Nokia engineer to talk to, I will find one on IRC or at t.m.o. Having said that, "your are not supposed to do that" and "it is done for your own benefit" are two most common responses people get from Nokia engineers. Neither is very constructive. I have got a long list of such cases from Faheem by the way.

Perhaps you should listen then when someone who knows more than you tries to correct "as far as you know". Quim has a limited amount of time, yes he provided the budget for the sponsorship but he could do other stuff whilst the council decided who got it. The council was also involved in choosing the event and helping organise it. Similarly, the device queue requires some admin work, reminders and triage - all roles the council perform.
So, the budget has still been provided by Quim, right?

Why would I get back to you? You've made your mind up. I'm not going to try to dissuade you any more, I've got better things to be doing.
I used "me" mostly to avoid using "us". But it is ok, let me rephrase it: Please, get back to us, here, on t.m.o, once you achieve some tangible result in your Council work. Thanks.
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