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Frappacino is offline Frappacino
2010-02-19 , 11:21
Posts: 619 | Thanked: 691 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#41
gerbick is correct

what mapkes it worse is nokia's fancy dodging. just say yes or no. n900 customers are not stupid and will understand - e.g. if it is a "no" because of hardware limitations, well, so be it.

many have seen companies do their fancy verbal dodging before, what it usually means is that the company knows the answer, but refuse to give it because they think it will hurt sales. but customers are not stupid, so customers see this behaviour and automatically assume the worse (which is usually correct), and it feeds off itself.

regardless, i think if nokia DID have plans to have meego on n900, they would have announced it with meego. the fact that this wasnt done and the constant emphasis on app backward compatibility from meego on n900 pretty much seals the deal for me stating that there will be no official meego for n900

other's opinoin may vary, but i just shake my head and teh corporate stupidity being shown here.
 

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fpp is offline fpp
2010-02-19 , 20:19
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#42
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
I've seen this a few times and let me say this:
How many have tried it? I mean.. this community is being severely impacted by another OS.. even going it's route for a packaging system.. and probably likely to use more of it's structure or base than Maemo's... just keeping Maemo's QT..
So how many of you have taken a look?
Just for the record, in the post you're answering there, I didn't mean to say that Moblin itself was something bad or good. Just that I had never seen it natively shipped on brand-name, globally available hardware like Maemo has been since 2005. This was just for the sake of disputing Kathy's "functioning perfectly well without a forum" jibe about the Moblin "community".

And yes, I've tried it on my netbook too, but had hardware support problems, and didn't like the UI, so I finally went with Mint. But maybe we just share that thing about "bubbly" :-)
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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-02-19 , 20:22
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#43
Originally Posted by fpp View Post
Just for the record, in the post you're answering there, I didn't mean to say that Moblin itself was something bad or good. Just that I had never seen it natively shipped on brand-name, globally available hardware like Maemo has been since 2005. This was just for the sake of disputing Kathy's "functioning perfectly well without a forum" jibe about the Moblin "community".

And yes, I've tried it on my netbook too, but had hardware support problems, and didn't like the UI, so I finally went with Mint. But maybe we just share that thing about "bubbly" :-)
Ah. I didn't experience any hardware issues that I've noticed yet.. but also haven't done much with it either. Just some browsing and video playback to try out the new toy.

I still maintain that Moblin not being available on anything doesn't really mean anything.. about the community or about the OS. It simply means no hardware platform has picked it up.

I'm sure the Moblin community thought they ran perfectly fine before all this mess . They are probably over there wondering how we manage to have a community with how these forums have looked lately .
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timwatt is offline timwatt
2010-02-19 , 20:51
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#44
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Do you mind elaborating?
My concerns would be:
- invalidating warranty by gaining root access to the device.
- inability to install .deb files (worse controlling the app market)
- limiting community support by deviating from a standard Linux distro. Making it more difficult to port existing Linux apps.
- restricting little hacks like adding brightness controller to the phone menu or making an app that pauses media player when you pull the headphones out.

In essence if a conflict such as: Nokia and Intel decide it is not in there commercial interest to support "say" the .ogg format (for example). With meamo it is open enough that the community could support .ogg, and Nokia would let it be. A concern I have and it may be out of ignorance: with MeeGo is Nokia and Intel may not leave those types of conflicts open to the community to solve, but they would take an active role in securing there commercial interest at the expense of the progress the community would bring.
 
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fpp is offline fpp
2010-02-19 , 21:13
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#45
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
Ah. I didn't experience any hardware issues that I've noticed yet.. but also haven't done much with it either. Just some browsing and video playback to try out the new toy.
This was on a Samsung NC10, with which most distros had problems when it came out over a year ago. Not showstoppers, but things like Fn-keys for sound volume & screen brightness, other keyboard shortcuts for Wifi/BT/hibernate. Some didn't even "see" the Wifi chip. All major distros eventually caught up, but I never connected with the (supposedly netbook-optimized) PlaySkool UIs, such asMoblin or UNR.

I still maintain that Moblin not being available on anything doesn't really mean anything.. about the community or about the OS. It simply means no hardware platform has picked it up.
And I still maintain that never being picked up by any hardware platform means something about the community or about the OS, so there :-)

I'm sure the Moblin community thought they ran perfectly fine before all this mess . They are probably over there wondering how we manage to have a community with how these forums have looked lately .
Obviously the culture shock goes both ways. They ran a tidy, well-organized, corporate-style outfit, and now there are great unwashed hordes of Barbarians at their gates :-)
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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-02-19 , 21:16
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#46
Originally Posted by fpp View Post
PlaySkool UIs, such asMoblin or UNR.
PlaySkool UI.. I love it! (I have an Acer Aspire One.. wireless and all worked fine. I don't typically use FN keys).

We're in pretty much agreement except for the implications of the Hardware. That could be just as much advertising and/or marketing as it is about the OS.

You can't convince me the iPhone OS/framework is good . I hate it lol.
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fpp is offline fpp
2010-02-19 , 21:41
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#47
Not even thinking to try anyway :-)
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wjbaird is offline wjbaird
2010-02-19 , 21:54
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#48
Originally Posted by Frappacino View Post
gerbick is correct

what mapkes it worse is nokia's fancy dodging. just say yes or no. n900 customers are not stupid and will understand - e.g. if it is a "no" because of hardware limitations, well, so be it.
I strongly suspect that they haven't said because they don't know... It's still early days yet, and obviously the primary goal of meego is for future handsets, but there's definitely value to Nokia in bringing meego to the n900 - so the evaluation they will be making is what the cost of that effort is relative to the value.

If I was product managing this, I certainly wouldn't commit to officially supporting meego on the n900 until I was quite certain that the cost of the port would be less than the value to Nokia... I suspect it'll take some time to sort that out.

I'm still not exactly sure what the ruckus is about - haven't the 'mer' folks already said they'll port meego to the n900 if there isn't an 'official' version??
 

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wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-02-20 , 09:12
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#49
Originally Posted by timwatt View Post
- inability to install .deb files (worse controlling the app market)
For one thing, people shouldn't be tossing around .deb or .rpm files and installing them directly.

Now then. They can't take the ability to directly install packages away without eliminating the concept of using a standard package management system and your access to root.

Note that -carriers- might, but that's just more reason to buy direct.

- restricting little hacks like adding brightness controller to the phone menu or making an app that pauses media player when you pull the headphones out.
To prevent small additions like this they would have to get as restrictive as Apple, which I doubt will happen.

with MeeGo is Nokia and Intel may not leave those types of conflicts open to the community to solve, but they would take an active role in securing there commercial interest at the expense of the progress the community would bring.
If they pulled that, the community would probably vacate the premises. After all, the issue you described is -why- you draw in a community: so they can supply all the bits and pieces that may be wanted, but not necessarily a large audience. On top of letting other people pick up some of the developmental load for you.
 

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swineflue is offline swineflue
2010-02-20 , 10:52
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#50
Originally Posted by wjbaird View Post
I strongly suspect that they haven't said because they don't know... It's still early days yet, and obviously the primary goal of meego is for future handsets, but there's definitely value to Nokia in bringing meego to the n900 - so the evaluation they will be making is what the cost of that effort is relative to the value.

If I was product managing this, I certainly wouldn't commit to officially supporting meego on the n900 until I was quite certain that the cost of the port would be less than the value to Nokia... I suspect it'll take some time to sort that out.

I'm eady said they'll port meego to the n900 if there isn't an 'officistill not exactly sure what the ruckus is about - haven't the 'mer' folks alral' version??
Total agree with everything here. They don't know yet. The whole Meego thing smells fantastically half-baked at this point.

I would guess that the technical compatibility or likeness of Maemo and Moblin are a secondary benefit of the merger into Meego. I think this is more about Intel and Nokia finding a good marketing and branding partner, rather then a good "technical partner". Both are into open source mobile OS for very different reasons, and thec ombined strategy and implementation require a lot of work and market experimentation they haven't done yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is no meego yet at all. Just Maemo 6 with some last-minute meego aspects.
 

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