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2011-01-22
, 14:59
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Posts: 3,464 |
Thanked: 5,107 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Gothenburg in Sweden
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#42
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Originally Posted by v13
Soo are u saying dalvik doesnt need those registers or what? Or are you saying. dalvik just found the new hardware and optimize it right away wihout a need toouch the code in dalvik codebase?
Except from one case: Future devices. Android apps are guaranteed to run on future devices as long as they run a compatible OS version and most probably they will run faster and take advantage of the new hardware.
But when using MeeGo, who will dare (or care) to introduce a new architecture or improved hardware? It's not only a matter of architecture. Even an improved instruction set or extra registers will be useless if you have the same binaries, just like it happens with Debian (all programs are compiled for ridiculously old hardware).
You have the same problems in Android too.
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2011-01-22
, 15:01
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#43
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Originally Posted by eitama
Congratulations! (But are you really interested in only developing apps for one platform? If you, for example, wanted to port one of your apps to iOS, would that mean you'd drop all support for Android? I'm just kinda surprised at the implicit statement here that developing for one platform means not developing for any other platform.)
I Can see V13's point very clearly, As a former N900 owner, and a Former Maemo Qt developer, Now an android owner and developer,
I can already feel how much easier maintaining an android app is - compared to a C++/Qt application, and also how much more rewarding it is.
Originally Posted by eitama
So, you are going to just assume that your app works fine on both Android phones and on Android tablets? What amount of RAM are you targeting, and will you warn users of devices with less than optimal RAM that you haven't tested on their devices? Some Android devices have a screen as small as 320x240; are you going to be able to display your app on those screens? Some of them have displays as large as 1024x600 or better, are you prepared for that? The CPU power among these devices already varies quite a bit, and certainly that variance will increase in the future; if you only have one test device, how will you know just how well your app runs on faster or slower CPUs?
Personally as a developer, I don't want to have to test and own 5 different devices just to be able to check if my compiled binary file really runs on all different 5 architectures.
True, Google has done everything right for creating a superb environment for development, as one would expect from the braniacs at that company. But I just wouldn't be so complacent about just assuming any given Android app will be a "write-once, run-everywhere" experience...
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2011-01-22
, 15:11
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Posts: 376 |
Thanked: 511 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Greece
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#44
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Originally Posted by mikecomputing
Please, spare me...
Soo are u saying dalvik doesnt need those registers or what? Or are you saying. dalvik just found the new hardware and optimize it right away wihout a need toouch the code in dalvik codebase?
You have the same problems in Android too.
Of course dalvik is ported. The apps are not. Why do you confuse the OS with the apps? Android is ported and so is the VM. But the apps that use the VM instantly start using those extra features indirectly, since the VM is already using them.
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2011-01-22
, 15:13
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Posts: 1,341 |
Thanked: 708 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#45
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Dalvik running top of Meego is what Id like to see and get also.
Maybe, I do not know, but, maybe, qtJambi could give usefull improvements and features to dalvik-development.
Maybe, I do not know, but, maybe, qtJambi could give usefull improvements and features to dalvik-development.
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2011-01-22
, 15:15
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#46
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Originally Posted by v13
Ah, here's one thing you don't seem to understand -- Debian is an open-source operating system. The programs are not compiled at all, they are provided in source-code form. If you have Debian binaries that were compiled for ridiculously old hardware, that simply means you were too lazy to compile Debian yourself, and grabbed binaries that someone else compiled for you (and you probably picked up the wrong binaries anyway, as Debian is popular enough to have people providing lots of different pre-compiled binaries for lots of different targets, so you should be able to full advantage of modern hardware).
But when using MeeGo, who will dare (or care) to introduce a new architecture or improved hardware? It's not only a matter of architecture. Even an improved instruction set or extra registers will be useless if you have the same binaries, just like it happens with Debian (all programs are compiled for ridiculously old hardware).
Besides, if you really want a bleeding-edge Linux distribution, ultra-conservative Debian is the wrong choice. Something like, say, Fedora would be more up your alley...
In any case, if releasing new, incompatible hardware were as much a problem as you are worrying about, companies like Intel and Mips would have shut their doors decades ago.
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2011-01-22
, 15:20
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Posts: 671 |
Thanked: 1,630 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
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#47
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Quote of the Day :
Originally Posted by Copernicus
... if releasing new, incompatible hardware were as much a problem as you are worrying about, companies like Intel and Mips would have shut their doors decades ago.
__________________
Three n900s: One for stable working platform,
One fordevelopment testing Chopping Onions
One forsaltwater immersion power testing resurrected ! parts scavenging
My Mods for Wonko's Advanced Clock Plugin:
ISO8601 clock mod and Momental_IST clock mod
Printing your Email with the N900
Three n900s: One for stable working platform,
One for
One for
My Mods for Wonko's Advanced Clock Plugin:
ISO8601 clock mod and Momental_IST clock mod
Printing your Email with the N900
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2011-01-22
, 15:20
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Posts: 724 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
@ Cambridge, UK
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#48
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Originally Posted by v13
What about all the apps with c/c++ engines? A) They need to be recompiled with these new extensions. B) They may be quite specific about library requirements. If you're android development is all in Java then do do the same in Qt you'd use Qml, if you need more, you e Qt/C++
Please, spare me...
Of course dalvik is ported. The apps are not. Why do you confuse the OS with the apps? Android is ported and so is the VM. But the apps that use the VM instantly start using those extra features indirectly, since the VM is already using them.
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2011-01-22
, 15:21
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Posts: 376 |
Thanked: 511 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Greece
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#49
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Originally Posted by Copernicus
I believe that when you'll start writing programs you'll understand...
Congratulations! (But are you really interested in only developing apps for one platform? If you, for example, wanted to port one of your apps to iOS, would that mean you'd drop all support for Android? I'm just kinda surprised at the implicit statement here that developing for one platform means not developing for any other platform.)
You still confuse the OS and its versions, the peripherals and the architecture.
Today, android runs on far too many phones and the apps work there very well. Of course different characteristics (like screen resolution etc) will require to be taken care off. Of course the same program may not run on a PC and on a mobile because there are different assumptions behind it (read: CPU, disks, network/connectivity, windows/no-windows, etc...). But between mobile phones, Android apps are instantly available to all of them.
It's easy to write a game that runs both on 640x480 and 800x400. But you can't write something that runs both on ARM, MIPS and x86 without being recompiled.
Oh.. and the irony won't help...
Originally Posted by Copernicus
You're making claims by yourself. The thread is about different mobile phones. Not phones and tables and PCs, etc etc...
So, you are going to just assume that your app works fine on both Android phones and on Android tablets?
If I write a hello world app for android and upload it to the app store it will run everywhere. If I do this with MeeGo I'll have to do a lot of other work. Of course it is doable, but it doesn't help me at all.
So ... again ... I'm not asking whether it is possible... I know it is...
I'm asking what's Nokia's position on this and whether it is already considered.
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2011-01-22
, 15:28
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Posts: 3,464 |
Thanked: 5,107 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Gothenburg in Sweden
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#50
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it scares me alot how mush google Android has influenced people her.
I mean who the hell wins on have exactly the same hw/apps etc. shouldnt endusers have possibility to select different platform? I am sure there are people who still dont want Google on theyr phones.
I want different choices! this discussions about android has more apps or iphone has more apps is in the end just tottally ridicilous. Its says NOTHING about who is the best platfom.
I have had same discussion in years about Linux vs Windows vs MacOSX. Thing is it is upto the enduusers to decide. We are different people with different culture and soo on.
Personally as a developer I want choices to select language. Myself dont like java for example. but people her want different. By saying Nokia should go Android is stupid imho that is infact saying I and other who prefer C++/python or whatever language are "loosers" and vise versa.
We all have our favorite OS:ses and development language.
Let endusers/developers decide.
I mean who the hell wins on have exactly the same hw/apps etc. shouldnt endusers have possibility to select different platform? I am sure there are people who still dont want Google on theyr phones.
I want different choices! this discussions about android has more apps or iphone has more apps is in the end just tottally ridicilous. Its says NOTHING about who is the best platfom.
I have had same discussion in years about Linux vs Windows vs MacOSX. Thing is it is upto the enduusers to decide. We are different people with different culture and soo on.
Personally as a developer I want choices to select language. Myself dont like java for example. but people her want different. By saying Nokia should go Android is stupid imho that is infact saying I and other who prefer C++/python or whatever language are "loosers" and vise versa.
We all have our favorite OS:ses and development language.
Let endusers/developers decide.
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| Tags |
| bada rox, dalvik, future, java haters, meego, meego?fail, nokia, sandbox sucks |
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Would this be possible for MeeGo? Such a port instantly makes available all android programs. Would mips care to port MeeGo? Would anyone care using MeeGo on mips devices (since there would be no available apps and not available central app repository)?
And finally... Was/Is this considered by Nokia/Intel?