This is exactly my experience with RPM based distros, and the reason I won't be providing packages of anything I do within MeeGo.

Well done Nokia, you've destroyed Maemo before it even had a chance.

I think the intended meaning may have been that LSB is severly lacking, and so are the RHEL-type distributions.

I agree about the LSB (I think everyone does - the LSB isn't what anyone would have wanted, just what was possible), but I don't see the problem with the RHEL/Fedora filesystem layout or configuration style. It's certainly different, but aside from familiarity I'm not sure why anyone would prefer /etc/network/interfaces to /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts. Besides which, if you look at /etc/network/interfaces on an N900 at least, it makes no mention of the WiFi or GPRS interfaces at all. Similar things are true of desktop distributions now as well, mostly people leave that sort of thing to Network Manager these days. A lot of these old differences are simply being obsoleted out of reality.

No.. he caught me with my pants down on that one. Unfortunately he then killed himself with his next comment.

Oh of course there's only ONE!

You went from correct to utterly wrong faster than anyone I've ever seen.

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Different topic:
My example of /etc/network/interfaces was a bad one as well considering debian is the only one that uses it.

Unfortunately, I don't have a legitimate example off the top of my head. What I can say is in the 10 years I've used linux... moving from:
Slackware - .tgz
Arch - .pkg.tar.gz
Gentoo - .tar.gz
Debian - .deb

I always felt as if they were built the same.. had the same packages/software, and configuration was relatively similar. None of them left the impression something was wrong - and I was able to customize them heavily without problems.

Then using:
Red Hat 9 - .rpm
Fedora - .rpm
Mandrake/Mandriva - .rpm
SuSE - .rpm

Nothing felt the same.. nothing felt similar. Yes, it's "Linux", and yes you can stumble your way through everything using the most basic of Linux utilities trying to search for crap.. but everything was in completely different sections. I'd try to customize things and then all of the sudden the GUI's would go weird on me.

Really, I think the way it feels is that the RPM based systems seem more heavily based and focused on the *GUI* tools they build.. whereas all the others' GUI tools were more of a frontend to their CLI counterparts. The latter makes more sense to me in the Linux world, where the former is more of the windows way of doing things.

Take Yast and up2date.. I believe both have their own CLI versions as well, but focus on the GUI versions. Then you have Synaptic on Ubuntu for example.. You don't call "synaptic" from the command line.. that's the GUI.. it's a wrapper for Apt. But with yast and up2date they are their own thing.. you call them from CLI if you want to do it that way.. not RPM or Yum. URPMI for Mandrake.. not primarily GUI.. but not Yast or Yum or up2date either.

I believe in RHEL5 forward Yum is now the base.. and the GUI's are wrappers for YUM.. which addresses that one specifically - but the rest are still *shrug*.

Nearly every distro that uses .deb.. uses apt... not ever distro that uses rpm - uses yum. It's confusing.

There's no continuity between RPM-based systems.. it's ugly.

I'll admit one thing - I took my RHCE on RHEL5 having almost zero CENTOS5 or RHEL5 experience. I have used RHEL4, and were mostly active with Fedora back before version 5... and yet I managed to ace my RHCE on RHEL5 because it - finally - did just "feel" like Linux. (or it could just be that I'm getting more used to understanding I have to do find's for everything on RPM systems cuz who knows where they got put.)

I've setup some Mandriva's, and openSuse's over time they still feel like a foreign entity to me. Things are just... wrong. Guess I can't explain it.

That's the problem I have with moving from debian-based to Fedora-based. Once I start dealing with RPM-systems things are just.. wrong.. files are in the wrong place or have different formatting. After spending weeks with an RPM and then moving to any other Linux system (gentoo, arch, slack, debian) I feel as if I have to relearn things. But once I started using Ubuntu as my desktop and debian for my servers.. moving to the others still feel natural. They aren't *dramatically* different except their specific packages.

And finally.. to what someone said earlier: I don't like relying on "Network Manager" to do it for me.. Ubuntu even annoys me there. Log out of Ubuntu and you disconnect from the wireless.. so if I have something to do on the CLI with CTRL+ALT+F1.. I'm not online. I have to set it up manually anyway. That's annoying... I should *always* be connected unless I specifically turn it off.

This is how we think and is probably right but I am so sure that if we had to make such big decisions we would do the same. This is problem with, I feel, running company for profits for shareholders. I am a linux newb and have no understanding of how the deb and rpms work and whats the history of the various distros, but still I think that keeping the system open like maemo or more open that that, is still better than any other mobile plateform out there. So thats a relief atleast.

I personally prefer the RPM structure, tho nothing wrong with the DEB either. I also prefer yum over apt-get. Both, as a user, and as a developer. And it probably has more to do with the things I'm used to than the real difference between those (although yum-presto gives a kick-*** sequential delta updates, not sure if there is something like that on apt-get side of things). So, yes, I'd probably like RPM-based distribution in the future of Maemo/MeeGo...

But... there are valid points for sticking with deb way of doing things, mainly because there are already wide varieties of deb packages for ARMEL. Sure, those could be repacked into rpms quite easily, but the problem with default config locations and similar things would remain.

Why not keep the structure but use RPM as package manager instead? That way the both zealotish sides will be happy

there is some good news: Harmhattan, previously known as Maemo 6, and the first MeeGo implementation of Nokia, is going to be based on the same Debian-like package management (incl .deb format) http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=529073&postcount=1
However, it is not clear how much they will stick to Debian policies or file system standards.

This I would have no issue with. As I said.. the RPM v Deb is zealotry.. I'm just operating on the history of RPM-based and Deb-based systems. I historically haven't been impressed.

If we wind up with a debian look-a-like that uses RPM.. works for me.

ETA: I guess before a certain someone start coming around saying I'm ranting and raving and to get a clue again.. I should say it would work for me either way of course - I won't bail just because they decide to make a Red Hat or Mandrake clone.

It's all been an stskeeps plot. Have you seen the moves he's been making lately? Why else would he have chosen OBS for Mer? He's been planning this for over a year. Better start keeping a better eye on him. That's what I think. And he gets my vote for stickin' it to those Intel/Moblin devs. Let's show 'em who's boss!

In the meantime, everybody can brush-up on their OBS Debian packaging skills.

I had NO problem with RPM-based SuSE YaST years.
But I had and I still have a couple of problems with DEB-ian based Maemo5.

I can't say for sure why is it, but I would like to exclude from this such things like my expertise and so on. Of course, packaging format is closely linked with distribution infrastructure and policies and it is definitely takes toll. For exam - the famous "red pill" removal problem and attempt to hide libraries and administrative application from GUI (Hildon Application Manager). As result - no GUI AM for system-based tools or libraries. Fine 8-[

What reasons did Intel have, when they decided to use fedora base instead of debian?