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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (3)
to General by Kalatti - 21 hrs, 45 mins ago - more...
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2014-08-28
, 17:55
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Joined on Oct 2009
@ Norway
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#232
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Originally Posted by pango
And why is this such a surprising thing to you?
And you have a bureaucrat at such a small and agile-looking company jump on that?
As an example, take a Jolla, and hand it to someone without letting them walk through the tutorial with zero exposure to the UI or its paradigms, and they won't be able to switch applications, because it's "different". And then they'll accidentally end up with the notifications feed, etc, etc, etc. This is why the device tutorial exists, and this is why new users - like your typical journalist would be - are put through that tutorial.
Also, unreleased software can be (and often is) incredibly broken in a million different ways.
You give that to someone from the press, and they discover that the browser plays five frames of video from youtube and crashes for instance because of some work-in-progress bug, and congratulations, instead of "Jolla is working hard on their software" as a headline, you just earned "Jolla's phone can't even play video".
Initial experience is everything with someone who isn't a "convert". I spoke about this before, but I really don't think you realise just how hard dealing with someone who knows nothing about all of this can be. To draw a sort-of-parallel, you might have just a matter of minutes at best to try get them to understand how things work and get them on your "side". Crashing software and having to spend those five minutes manually explaining/demoing the software, for instance, are going to ruin your chance for such an initial experience.
And if that person is publically covering your product, they might ruin your initial experience with a much wider audience.
And you don't think that warrants any care at all?
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i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
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i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
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2014-08-28
, 17:56
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
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#233
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Originally Posted by rcolistete
Yes, that's what I want.
Some people here just want everybody orbit around him/her, in a endless discussion.
Because I can't possibly want Jolla to be more transparent and succeed better through the improved community reaction that would bring.
No, wait. I want the latter.
If anything, I've tried to keep the discussion around jalyst's suggestion:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=29
Don't give a hoot about me or my words, but for Jolla's sake, think about jalyst's suggestion.
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2014-08-28
, 17:59
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Posts: 114 |
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Joined on Aug 2014
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#234
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Originally Posted by Morpog
I agree they probably have been panicking and have been trying to look perfect and thus forgot about how much trust transparency can build even through tough times - and reverse, how quickly trust erodes when transparency is lacking. I'm suggesting they not be so afraid of looking a little more rough, but also a little more open and honest in the process. I think their public image would improve.
Well, you may have forgot about it. Jolla is a small startup. They can't easily take drawbacks like Nokia, Samsung, HTC can (especially Nokia
You people should concentrate less on the PR. You can see and feel the openess of Jolla on IRC, and the open source parts of MER, Nemomobile, SailfishOS repos and upstream stuff like Qt. Even TJC has some bits of open feeling. Why nobody sees that? Do you get that anywhere else? And no, yearly codedrops don't count.
I guess you can feel the openness of Jolla on IRC when they are not kicking or blocking you?
But I do agree, aside from certain surprising non-open components (that actually make Sailfish a less open alternative than some), Jolla is quite an OK FOSS citizen. I think their participation mostly in FOSS stuff is OK.
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2014-08-28
, 18:06
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Posts: 956 |
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Joined on Nov 2011
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#235
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The only guy I ever ever ever saw gotting kicked there in the last 2 1/2 years was fk_lx. Have you seen what he did to the piratepads? Or on the developer maillist? He continued even after the community, not Jolla, asked him to stop his defacing and spamming. Should he do the same on IRC? Is that a sane behavior?
For me the discussion ends here. It's useless to discuss with you. I even started again to think that I'm discussing with fk_lx.
For me the discussion ends here. It's useless to discuss with you. I even started again to think that I'm discussing with fk_lx.
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2014-08-28
, 18:08
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
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#236
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Originally Posted by w00t
I guess it shouldn't be. Jolla has been shown to try and protect their pristine image in ways that I have a hard time fitting with an idea of modern, agile, social tech company. They are indeed quite closed and controlled in their comms policy, very old world aside from the fluffy stuff. I'd rather see something different from them.
And why is this such a surprising thing to you?
Originally Posted by w00t
No no, I do think it warrants care. I just think it was shooting a fly with artillery in the context of a guy loaning his Jolla to a blogger.
And you don't think that warrants any care at all?
There appears to be a pretty controlling culture within Jolla, which makes people afraid to step outside of that. I guess that is why people are so vague in the comms as well, afraid of a superior or team reaction and not sure what can be said and done. Some that, of course, is understandable, but I'm not getting a very open vibe from Jolla.
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2014-08-28
, 18:09
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
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#237
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Originally Posted by Morpog
Come on, people post popcorn images and make jokes all throughout the thread without me quitting. Live a little. Laugh a little. It was a joke.
The only guy I ever ever ever saw gotting kicked there in the last 2 1/2 years was fk_lx. Have you seen what he did to the piratepads? Or on the developer maillist? He continued even after the community, not Jolla, asked him to stop his defacing and spamming. Should he do the same on IRC? Is that a sane behavior?
For me the discussion ends here. It's useless to discuss with you.
That said, I believe Jolla has recently used banning and closing in other places, contexts with a few other people as well. No?
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2014-08-28
, 18:09
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Posts: 207 |
Thanked: 154 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
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#238
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Originally Posted by pango
Since this is such a major issue to you, a free tip: if you can't live with the "level of openness in communication" Jolla provides, the easiest way out is to take your money to some company that provides it on the level you need it. Problem solved.
Luckily we have a poll, where nobody else thinks Jolla should be more transparent.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93629
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2014-08-28
, 18:14
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
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#239
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Originally Posted by RFS-81
I can perfectly well live with the lack of openness Jolla provides, but I do see things cropping up for Jolla within the community and am offering my thoughts on how they could improve in this area.
Since this is such a major issue to you, a free tip: if you can't live with the "level of openness in communication" Jolla provides, the easiest way out is to take your money to some company that provides it on the level you need it. Problem solved.
Again, here is jalyst's post that made me respond because it resonated:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=29
Think about his post, if not mine.
And why would I want to take the easiest way out, if I'd like to see Jolla succeed instead? I just don't think being a silent or cheering apologist is the way to go when I see something I think they would do well to reconsider.
Mine is a honest suggestion. Transparency breeds trust. And that's good for business as it is for community.
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2014-08-28
, 18:19
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Posts: 207 |
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Joined on Nov 2009
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#240
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Originally Posted by pango
Fine, but offering that one thought for 24 pages? I'm sure it's more than enough for Jolla to pick it up, if they're interested.
I can perfectly well live with the lack of openness Jolla provides, but I do see things cropping up for Jolla within the community and am offering my thoughts on how they could improve in this area.
Imagine the days spent in this hate crusade if it was used for Qt Quick (or Python, etc) programming.
Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.