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Estel is offline Estel
2012-06-26 , 18:27
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#71
Originally Posted by SD69 View Post

That was fine with me and I said so. But it changed after that, including that Estel later changed his mind and decided to request an award.
Not true, which is quite funny as per se, considering who posted it No offense taken, Rob, but please, ask before spreading FUD like this.

I've declared, that I'll submit for CA in April - even before being elected for Councilor - and never changed my mind about that. If in doubt, go and read mailing list.

/Estel

// Edit

ZogG, gerbrick, etc - Honestly, I *don't* care if You like my tone, or not. Whole point is about You failing to acknowledge, that everything was discussed and approved for almost 2 months.

People like ZogG applied for device, accepting rules and never saying single bad word about it - then, after losing, they come here and start posting demagogic things. It's especially true for ZogG, who tries to say that "he don't need to read mailing list, TMO, news and IRC for 2 months", yet he applied for Community Award - so he was aware of rules and participants, for sure.

It's pathetic, ridiculous and miserable, and I'm *not* going to sugar-coat it You may cover Your words in demagogic sentences, that [b]*pretend*[/'b] to be polite or "adult", but it doesn't change merit - it's unjustified, childlish outcry of either CA losers, or people who found themselves in un-meritocratic side of fence, and don't have guts to excuse now, for accusing too early.

Again - I don't care if people like ZogG trust me or not. Don't like my work as Councilor? Don't vote for me for next period, *if* I'm going to throw my name in hat. Like my work as Councilor, but don't like me, and it's more important for You? do the same, fair enough. No matter what, I'll continue to volunteer work for the Community, with except, that the latter scenario will give me more free time, and less demands to re-phrase answer, that were given zillion of times already.
---

For ones that still don't get it:

1. We think, that throwing Council names for CA, instead of granting devices for Councilor automatically, was more fair.

2. We did discussed it well with Community, and - except for geneven's one liner - no one ever said bad word about it, for almost two months

3. Paople like e-yes, notabigtruck or ZogG applied for devices, knew rules and other participants. They haven't protested, since final results. After losing, they started - more (ZogG) or less (y-yes angry one-liner)disguised in long, demagogic posts - outcry/

4. We think that it's ridiculous, yet, we've given detailed answers, including reference links to mailing lists, archival posts, announcements, etc.

5. People like ZogG stand in position, that they don't need to participate in Community channels, yet, they *know* that Councilors applying for CA is bad thing, so they outcry even more. People like gerbrick think that they haven't got answers, despite fact, that answers were posted more than 20 times, already.

Conclusion:
Is it my, or Council problem? Definitely not.

I'm done with this thread, and with any similar off-spring. Have fun pretending, that You're acting like adults.

/Estel

// Edit

Originally Posted by Dave999 View Post
Why not say what you mean straight up if you planning to say it anyway? . The discussion would more correct and faster.
Because some type of western people think, that writing FU in 5 sentences, make You more "adult"...
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Last edited by Estel; 2012-06-26 at 19:05.
 

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ZogG is offline ZogG
2012-06-26 , 18:35
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#72
Originally Posted by Estel View Post
Not true, which is quite funny as per se, considering who posted it No offense taken, Rob, but please, ask before spreading FUD like this.

I've declared, that I'll submit for CA in April - even before being elected for Councilor - and never changed my mind about that. If in doubt, go and read mailing list.

/Estel
Didn't like nieldk's response as he actually repeated from sudden of nowhere, though he had chance to talk before, and he used to insult. And than again even in apology:
deeply apologizes to those who at least had some truth in their statements.
he still blame those, as they say "~4". But i thought it is pointless as at least one council talked honestly (i hope).

But now Estel gives it another turn, when i think it's better you decide between each other first why and who and when and than straight the story up.
 

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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2012-06-26 , 18:40
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#73
Originally Posted by don_falcone View Post
So, after reading SD69's statement... if one would be a bit snappy; he could now conclude that:
The most vocal opponent to people questioning the whole process/story, being at the same time the person that launched most personal attacks against said questioners, this person showed the most questionable/arguable behavior?
Why not say what you mean straight up if you planning to say it anyway? . The discussion would more correct and faster.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2012-06-26 , 18:43
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#74
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
My bad... The minutes were supposed to read:[*] A few people on TMO are going crazy...

And frankly, I think going crazy is fitting for the fire-storm that was the thread in question, and not offensive. (I say that being one of the people that took part in the thread...)
I don't think it's advocating political correctness to ask council members to avoid inflammatory verbiage.
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nieldk
2012-06-26 , 18:52
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#75
Originally Posted by ZogG View Post
Didn't like nieldk's response as he actually repeated from sudden of nowhere, though he had chance to talk before, and he used to insult. And than again even in apology:

he still blame those, as they say "~4". But i thought it is pointless as at least one council talked honestly (i hope).

But now Estel gives it another turn, when i think it's better you decide between each other first why and who and when and than straight the story up.
What on earth does it take to make you happy?
I obviously cant say it clear enough!
You asked for an apology, I apologized, on a personal level once I became aware of an actual issue!
Insult, I dont think I insulted anyone, at least I have taken care NOT to.
But, what is the request from you REALLY, that you get a device?

Now, let me know from the rest of you guys!

1 should I resign from council?
2 Do you request that I forward my device?
3 all of the above

lets get some feedback on this, before friday this week, and I promise your voices will be heard, at least from me.

Whatever the outcome, I am not a coward that will leave this community to die, and I will stay and fight for its survival.
 

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woody14619 is offline woody14619
2012-06-26 , 18:53
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#76
Originally Posted by ZogG View Post
Woody, i understand situation, but if prev. problem existed and even people who think all of the council should get device, thought it was not nice way to do it. You just made second mistake, by simply ignoring it
Again, I ask: What should I have done? Quim and 6 of the other 7 nominees were all good with this solution, as were many past Council on the lists and TMO where this was discussed? What was my option? Withdraw my nomination for Council? I considered it.

And no, Gerbick, being Council doesn't make me some type of superior super-being that suddenly knows solutions to all things. I'm asking because I honestly don't see a solution to this. Especially not one that I, as a single Council member, can bring into being. Everyone seems to think that one Council member can single-highhandedly stop the entire community, and Nokia, and the rest of Council from doing something they're set on doing. So excuse me if I see the reply of "I won't comment" or "You should know what to do" as a cop-out.

Originally Posted by ZogG View Post
and even making second mistake:
You decided not to pay attention of the first one, but to discuss personally Arie instead on logged official meeting, reminding that there is ignore list.
First off... I (nor anyone) said anything about an ignore list. I think you're mixing things in your mind.

Second, did you bother to even read the logs, vs the 2 line excerpt Aries edited out of it? Did you not see the smiley face? Did you not get that I was making a joke?

And lets be clear here: I didn't call him a name, or insult him in any way. I simply stated a *FACT* that he said he was no longer using his N9, and that I would find it hard to lead a group based on a device while no longer using that device.

Was that a huge personal attack? One worth making a huge stink over? Was I calling out people by name as not being "worthy" of an award? I'd call that an attack. Or like calling people thieves, and a competition rigged, after being just fine with the rules when they were being formed when running for Council? I'd call that a personal attack.

I've yet to "personally attack" someone. All I've done is point out when others have been being rude. Don't think so? Please do prove me wrong. Go back and find somewhere where I've attacked someone personally and quote it here. You'll be hard pressed to find it. You'll find instead me telling people to stop being insulting, and for that, I'm damned.
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Dave999's Avatar
Dave999 is offline Dave999
2012-06-26 , 19:00
Posts: 7,074 | Thanked: 9,069 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#77
Originally Posted by nieldk View Post

1 should I resign from council?
2 Do you request that I forward my device?
3 all of the above

lets get some feedback on this, before friday this week, and I promise your voices will be heard, at least from me.

Whatever the outcome, I am not a coward that will leave this community to die, and I will stay and fight for its survival.
1. No, a councelier is selected for the term and I expect not less unless personal reasons.
2. No, if that is happening. Same should go for all winners. That would be ridiculous.
3. Please no! Someone like me or worse can be asked to take your place.

To all in this thread:
What are you doing to the guys in the Council. It should be fun to be a part of the community on all levels. I honestly don't understand why you all blow this thing out of proportion. It's amaze me. Stunning!
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Last edited by Dave999; 2012-06-26 at 19:12.
 

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2012-06-26 , 19:10
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#78
It's enuf to give a little bit about that problem, and not act like child. i dont appreciate the tone talked to me and about that problem. I would accept it from the begging and from truly meaning it. But now? I'll just leave you alone, and as planned to be in read mode only here.
And before i'll add personal: I not only think that some people dont deserve any price, but even to be a council and the log after proves it. And no it wouldn't work that way to now say that we do it coz we were in list. And i never thought i'll get i wrote even in that words in submition. And it's obv than other people who speaked up more logical to understand by that they'll not get the phone as it would be also not ethic.
EDIT: for more readable log — http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23mae...06-26T21:40:10


21:40
Estel_ freemangordon, I understand. If You're reffering to my post aimed @ SD69, i Think it was like it was meant to be, as I felt accussed a little 21:42
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Estel_ +, ust few hours ago, i told him that it isn't true, and provided links. I don't suspect abd will, just being careless on already heated thing 21:43
Estel_ anyway, i'm done with all post-CA outcry threrads for good 21:43
Estel_ definitely, much more productive things to do 21:43
Estel_ I don't care if they're going to ounslaughter themselves. I think you're right, that this thing started to get in my nerves too much 21:44
Estel_ and You're right, my bad to heat amosphere even more. Eh. 21:44
freemangordon yes, that post, but not only. I don't know about you, but I have a lot of contacts with western people and I can assure you, they just don grok our south way of thinking/expressing things. 21:44
Estel_ ah, true 21:45
freemangordon *don't 21:45
Estel_ yes, you're right, and You're definitely right about fact, that they take it 2x more heavily, than I would take it or mean, even when angered 21:45
Estel_ good catch. 21:45
*** dafox has joined #maemo 21:46
freemangordon the same way as we don;t grock whay the hell it takes 5 sentences to say something that can be said with 5 words 21:46
Estel_ yea Well... Thanks for advice, (hoever it sounds), as I msut say that it was one with most merit in it, and I got many "friendly advices" lately 21:47
Estel_ BTw, I suspect, that Scots are either more like us, or vi_ is Slav in disguise :P 21:48
ZogG_lap1op facts are facts in any language 21:48
ZogG_lap1op i'm not native too 21:48
Estel_ ZogG, like fact, that You've applied for Ca Yourself, and started to protest only, when You've lost? 21:49
*** Zahra has quit IRC 21:49
ZogG_lap1op if you accuse or go personal it doesn't matter if you do it too much or less, it's the point of you going personal 21:49
Estel_ freemangordon, i'm doing better, yep? I've written two-liner. 21:49
freemangordon ZogG_lap1op: it is not about the language itself, but the wording 21:49
ZogG_lap1op Estel_: nope, i lost way before 21:49
freemangordon Estel_: sure thing 21:49
Estel_ I'm starting to get afraid of myself. soon, I'm going to write FU in 3 sentences 21:50
ZogG_lap1op you see how it's easy to make a laugth and like you are big guy that i just bug, so you want friends protection as you insecure and you joke with him in the middle 21:50
ZogG_lap1op nice touch =) 21:50
Estel_ ZogG, haven't You though about going for vacation? i've heard, that weather is nice where You live. 21:50
freemangordon ZogG_lap1op: I don;t know what nationality you are, but there is deffinitely a difference on how western/eastern people understand one and the same sentence 21:50
Estel_ it's holiday seasons, You know 21:51
Estel_ (3th sentence) You know that sitting before monitor and writing 3x A4 posts on TMO is unhealthy? Mind taking a short walk? 21:51
ZogG_lap1op i actully leaved in few countries and had experience with people from different nations 21:51
ZogG_lap1op wait on the phone with GF 21:51
ZogG_lap1op brb 21:52
qwazix_ freemangordon: True, when I'm abroad with friends they keep asking us why are we arguing while we're just having a conversation 21:52
*** Atarii has joined #maemo 21:52
* freemangordon is going off just before GF gets mad, bbl 21:52
Estel_ (slav mode on) ZogG, i jsut don't give a F***. i'm done with threads full of 4-5 people, that doesn't accept answrs and facts 21:52
Estel_ see ya, freemangordon 21:52
*** mase76 has joined #maemo 21:53
Estel_ fun fact - I moved my ***, and calculated. turned out, that 70% of people protesting for CA have beeb candidates themselves. Whi9ch, of course, isn't any conflict of interest, at all ;() 21:53
Estel_ especially, e-yes, who praised Community and Council in his submissions, yet, after losing, he posted one-liner about how he hate Council and Community. Hah! 21:54
Estel_ ~botsnack 21:54
Sicelo CA ftw \m/ 21:54
Estel_ qwazix_, yea, it's common 21:54
Sicelo lol 21:54
ZogG_lap1op шэь ифсл 21:55
ZogG_lap1op i'm back 21:55
Estel_ qwazix_, it's just difference of temper 21:55
Estel_ as You can see, we all missed, and waited. 21:56
Estel_ holding our breath. 21:56
Estel_ terrified. 21:56
Estel_ if You haven't decide to get a short summer walk. you know, we wouldn't be able to sleep. 21:57
Estel_ ok, enough of laughing around. 21:57
Estel_ time for work! 21:57
ZogG_lap1op i'm kinda slovacian related.i;m slavic 21:57
ZogG_lap1op Estel_: you talk to much and again insult me 21:58
DocScrutinizer05 dang commies 21:58
Sicelo Estel_: what is the latest RE: what qgil asked for a while back .. a direction/vision for us ? 21:58
Estel_ Sicelo, 21:58
Estel_ yea, he should be carefull with what he wishes for 21:58
ZogG_lap1op even if it's you language, i think you know it insult people as you stated above 21:58
Sicelo hmm, ok 21:58
Estel_ ZogG, i'm not insulting You. I just asked if You don't want to enjoy summer walk. 21:58
Estel_ I'mcarrying about Your health, and You're aggressive? 21:59
ZogG_lap1op i'll just post the log 21:59
Last edited by ZogG; 2012-06-26 at 19:17.
 

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2012-06-26 , 19:12
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#79
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post

First off... I (nor anyone) said anything about an ignore list. I think you're mixing things in your mind.
And this quote from log? I think you was at the meeting, was you? Or it was so normal that you didn't pay attention?

Estel_ and as for abil_uk and others, they have nice small ignore button
 

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2012-06-26 , 19:29
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#80
Originally Posted by Estel View Post
I've declared, that I'll submit for CA in April - even before being elected for Councilor - and never changed my mind about that. If in doubt, go and read mailing list.
I've looked and haven't found any such mail.

I know this post on May 28 where you and Woody were going to decide the awards:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=20

And I know this post on May 28 by you indicating submitting councilors (Me, Ivan and Niel) were stepping down:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...9&postcount=24

So as of May 28 you were one of two deciding the awards because you had not announced an intention to submit for an award (at least that's the way these posts indicate). And then you didn't nominate yourself soon after May 28, or during the subsequent debate about how to decide the awards, or say anything to indicate that you had submitted or that you would submit. I've also reviewed the council meeting logs of June 8 and June 15, and you didn't say anything then either.

Edit: link to mail on May 24 (after council election) has been provided which implies that Estel will apply for device

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...9&postcount=24
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