SHAME on Nokia! SHAME!! [Archive] - maemo.org

NokNok770

2006-01-09, 18:20

Big deal...Fry sells a hard drive enclosure that has lithium rechargeable batteries to power the hard drive. It also has built in card reader on there. There is a button on the case for copying contents on the memory card to the hard drive without hooking up to any device. It's less than 100 dollars. Thought about getting it for the nokia 770 but I haven't found the use yet. I got a 1gig card that hasn't filled up.

Mike Cane

2006-01-09, 18:28

It is a big deal. No friggin having to get a Mac or Linux on your PC just to modify one damned script command for host mode!

Shame, Nokia! SHAME SHAME!

Beaten by Sony!

Now that is low!

Hedgecore

2006-01-09, 18:33

cAPSLOCK

2006-01-09, 18:51

:( :eek: What an annoying thread title... I will 'use some heads' to show my opinion of it...

:eek: :(

I also hope for the sake of the non technical user that Nokia will allow turning on USB host mode easily.

But it seems to me that you just want to complain most of the time.

If you were posting on a PSP forum would you heap SHAME on sony for making the PSP have to be in a special USB file transfer ONLY mode while hooked up, while a device like the 770 could use the storage like a COMPUTER would, once usb mode is set up?

cAPS

Hedgecore

2006-01-09, 20:08

I think Mike's coming from the same point of view I exhibit towards Microsoft; some users are more than mindless point & clickers and are one step closer to an anneurysm each time they have to see "Warning! Looking at your program files is one step away from you deleting something on a whim and screwing up your system, click here to show them anyway".

Personally, I just want the option without having to reflash my system and risk horrible things happening to it. Even holding the 'select' button during bootup to login as root would be a decent option. If the option is toggled and someone hashes their system, they have nothing to complain about. Look at spraypaint. Deliberately concentrating and inhaling contents can cause death. Spray away from eyes. At least we still have the option ;)

cAPSLOCK

2006-01-09, 20:19

I also think it would be a good idea. ;)

tnkgrl

2006-01-09, 20:46

Mike, this device will work exactly the same way for the Nokia 770 as for the Sony PSP - it's a self powered hard drive enclosure with USB host capabilty... Here's another:
http://macally.com/spec/usb/storage_device/phr_250otg.html

Also keep in mind that the 770 can be set to be USB host but the PSP can't - I also have a PSP so I've tried hacking it too :)

thoughtfix

2006-01-09, 20:56

There's no shame in this whatsoever. The PSP was released March 24th 2005. The 770 tablet was released in November. I'd say the PSP had a good head start and bet that it won't take developers 10 months to deploy external hard drives for the 770.

thoughtfix

2006-01-09, 20:58

Mike, this device will work exactly the same way for the Nokia 770 as for the Sony PSP

Not exactly, Tank. The 770 requires +5V DC to be pushed BACKWARD up the USB line (from the device to the tablet) in order for USB host mode to work. I am sure we can find a way to solder over a single wire to permit that on these drives but then it may not work (or even damage) other devices.

putkowski

2006-01-09, 22:03

Not exactly, Tank. The 770 requires +5V DC to be pushed BACKWARD up the USB line (from the device to the tablet) in order for USB host mode to work. I am sure we can find a way to solder over a single wire to permit that on these drives but then it may not work (or even damage) other devices.

Not sure I understand this. Previous diagrams indicate the power leads are missing from the 770 USB connector...

P

thoughtfix

2006-01-09, 22:08

Not sure I understand this. Previous diagrams indicate the power leads are missing from the 770 USB connector...

P
This should help:

http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2006/01/no-solder-usb-host-method.html

tnkgrl

2006-01-09, 22:18

*thoughtfix*, as you have shown, pushing power up the USB port is trivial, and once the Nokia 770 becomes a USB host, any self powered hard drive like the Apple iPod can be connected to it...

However, this hard drive for the Sony PSP is itself USB host, allowing data to be pushed to any USB mass storage device (including the Nokia 770's RS-MMC card and the Sony PSP's Memory Stick Duo card).

gultig

2006-01-09, 23:20

If the enclosure is a host mode device, effectively making the PSP a client device, is this no different than what you could do with the 770. It would make no sense to me that the enclosure wouldn't have +5 volts sending out on the line to the PSP.

Clarification? Anyone?

*Edit*

According to http://www.beyondlogic.org/usb/otghost.htm :

A dual-role device needs only source a minimum of 8 mA on Vbus

The question is now: Would 8mA be enough to enable the 770?

Mike Cane

2006-01-09, 23:33

thoughtfix: the shame is that there is no easy host option. Hell, I'd settle for a fugly option on XP, as long as I could finally hook up all the neat things like you. Admit it: You're protecting your 1337 turf. Ha!!

tnkgrl, you continue to astound me. Are there 3 of you or don't you sleep? Thanks again!

-- edited to add:

Replied too soon, didn't see pg 2!

Yeah, what gultig said!

-- live via 770

gultig

2006-01-09, 23:35

thoughtfix: the shame is that there is no easy host option. Hell, I'd settle for a fugly option on XP, as long as I could finally hook up all the neat things like you. Admit it: You're protecting your 1337 turf. Ha!!

tnkgrl, you continue to astound me. Are there 3 of you or don't you sleep? Thanks again!
Mike, please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think that there is a USB host mode on the PSP. It has a USB slave mode much like the 770, and the access is only to the memory stick (much like the 770 again).

Mike Cane

2006-01-09, 23:38

Live via 770:

Well, like you, I await clarification!

gultig

2006-01-09, 23:53

Live via 770:

Well, like you, I await clarification!

Sorry, not going to edit history, but I'm not awaiting clarification any more. It's pretty much fact according to much of the browsing I've just done on the OTG spec, and the PSP's specs. Now it's just down to someone doing it.

But still...

http://www.gp32x.com/board/lofiversion/index.php/t23342.html

This is nothing to be ashamed of, it's a hack that doesn't look like much fun in reality. So now I have to buy a big flash card anyway since this device cannot be accessed by the PSP or 770 while it's operating without hacks (770 gets a point since you're not going to hack USB host mode into the PSP), and then I have to use the HD device's tiny lcd screen to transfer say a movie over to said flash card. Wait... Wait... Wait... Then I get to watch said movie. Then when I'm ready to watch part 2 of the movie.... Wait.... Wait... Wait....

Please. I'm pretty sure everyone on this thread knows what you're looking for in a peripheral for the 770, but "Shame on Nokia!" for a third party having a hackish device? Save the righteous indignation for something more worthy.

David

Mike Cane

2006-01-10, 00:02

Live via 770:

Turn on me, willya?

The entire point is that we should *all* have an easy -- or even fugly -- way to enable host mode.

That you have delved into fine print to find something else shouldn't distract from the larger point.

tnkgrl

2006-01-10, 00:16

*gultig*, you're right and I've edited my post above!

Mike, I don't sleep much :) I own a Sony PSP and it cannot operate as a USB host (until someone figures it out, anyway).

Mike Cane

2006-01-10, 00:45

AaronL

2006-01-10, 00:53

Agreed. I haven't obtained root or enabled USB host mode on my device yet because of the process involved. Bury the options in the control panel and give us the option to enable them; I break it, it's my fault. Include all the warnings, all the dialogue boxes, etc, but at least give me the functionality. My RCA Lyra is a self powered 40GB HDD that is automatically detected by a PC as an external drive. I'd love to be able to jack it into my 770.
Please note that once root is granted, it is possible to enable/disable USB host mode without using flasher. And, using Kreature's patch (at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1003), it is possible to get root relatively easily without needing a Mac or Linux.

So, how do you get USB host mode without using flasher, assuming that you already have root? This has been mentioned a few times on the maemo-developers e-mail list, but for some reason, hasn't made it into the maemo wiki. I haven't tested this, but the following should turn USB host mode on: echo host > /sys/devices/platform/tahvo-usb/otg_mode . To turn USB host mode off, use the following: echo peripheral > /sys/devices/platform/tahvo-usb/otg_mode . According to posts on the maemo-developers list from Nokia employees, host mode should immediately start working once this is turned on.

Note that there is good reason to keep USB host mode turned off unless it is needed. According to http://maemo.org/maemowiki/Flasher_tool_usage, host mode disables dyntick, which means that battery time goes down. More information about dyntick can be found at http://muru.com/linux/dyntick/.

Aaron

Mike Cane

2006-01-10, 01:17

Live via 770:

This sounds interesting. Will study. Thanks.

BTW:
http://blog.russnelson.com/770/index.html
(Thanks Nokia 770 Blog!)

gultig

2006-01-10, 05:31

Live via 770:

gultig, I went to that PSP URL you cited and the whole thing is some argument over pins that's beyond me. I'm no EE or solder jock. And I have no idea what that GP2X they kept mentioning is. None of it inspired confidence.

Mike, that link was just for the image at the top that described the usage of the host usb drive. Nothing special.

Didn't mean to rain on your parade, just adding some facts to the discussion.

BTW- the gpx is a linux based gaming system with dual arm processors. Quite a fun looking system. http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9112527929.html

j.pickens

2006-01-10, 05:48

This whole "damage the nokia" concept must be done away with.
It's my friggin' machine, let me use it!
We need a simple icon to switch the 770 into "geek" mode.
One disclaimer page, with a checkbox to never show it again.
Then, icons for root, Xterm, and "switch USB to host" magically appear.
I mean, Nokia distributes the OS flash program, and that will totally wipe out your system, whatever we do can't be "worse" than that!

meshsmooth

2006-01-10, 09:18

Mike you have inspired me. after hearing you have your cry I decided to get proactive.

I had a usb hub i was going to do some solldering to feed power back to the 770. I needed a cable to go from USB mini to femail USB A. Descovering that i wasent about to find that cable I decided i would need to make it from 2 regular cables and I may as well make that cable "power injected". to inject the power i decided i would like to use the nokia chjarger, because i have a car cgarger as well this would work well. the electronics store diidnt have tiny plug so i decided i would make it the same plug as the USB hub, 3.5mm.

So I went out and bought a soldering iron, soder, some usb cables, a battry pack, and some 3.5mm power plugs. I took the powered usb hub and conected the external power through a switch so i could still use it as a regular hub as well as a "nokia 770 hub" I decided that i could use one of the cut off cables with a male USB A conecter atached to it, to leac power from a pc and inject it inot my hub or my simple cable with the power injected. A battry batry pack outputs 6V but i want to swap the regular batrys for rechargables so it gets closer to 5.1V.

this was ritten all from my 770. on my keyboard.

like the gaining root on the 770 putting the device into ost mode is a switch that is kept even after reboot.

i have made a simple script and stuck it in /bin and called it usbhost it is exacutable and has the contence of ...
echo host > /sys/devices/platform/tahvo-usb/otg_mode

and the other called "usbslave"
echo peripheral > /sys/devices/platform/tahvo-usb/otg_mode

and yet thease donot enable and disable usb host mode for me. It seams to be in some kind of limbo, not too much is working with the usb port

AllThumbs

2006-01-10, 20:44

It is a big deal. No friggin having to get a Mac or Linux on your PC just to modify one damned script command for host mode!

Shame, Nokia! SHAME SHAME!

Beaten by Sony!

Now that is low!

Now let's see. Would I rather buy a machine from Nokia or the folks that make it their business practice to quietly install rootkits on every PC their 'special' Sony CDs come in contact with?

Call me crazy but I'd rather have convoluted root access than support the Sony creeps with my money. In addition, if you want root access to a machine, seems like you'd want it difficult enough so that every Joe Schmoe on the planet doesn't whack their (or your) machine. It won't be a warning label that stops them.

Having read all of the above, if you're still hell-bent on having simple root access to your 770, here's how:

1. Install Xterm on your Nokia 770 from here (http://770.fs-security.com/xterm/files/osso-xterm_0.11_arm.deb).

2. Load the Flasher program on your PC, Mac, or Linux box from here (http://maemo.org/downloads/d3.php).

3. Run this Flasher command on your ... Mac or Linux machine: ./flasher --enable-rd-mode --reboot

4. Turn off your 770, plug it into your machine above with the included USB cable, and then power it on while holding down Home.

5. Open Xterm from the Extras menu and type: sudo makeroot

If you want to avoid steps #3 and #4 in the future, issue the following command the first time you have root access to the 770:

echo user ALL = NOPASSWD: ALL >> /etc/sudoers

You can also turn off RD-mode permanently by repeating steps #3 and #4 using the following commands:

3. ./flasher --disable-rd-mode --reboot

4. Turn off your 770, plug it into your machine above with the included USB cable, and then power it on while holding down Home.

Once you finish the above, it's "Sony Simple" (without the Sony baggage) to gain root access to the Nokia 770 anytime you (or anyone else!) desires:

1. Open Xterm from the Extras menu and type: sudo su

putkowski

2006-01-10, 21:10

Having read all of the above, if you're still hell-bent on having simple root access to your 770, here's how:

1. Install Xterm on your Nokia 770 from here (http://770.fs-security.com/xterm/files/osso-xterm_0.11_arm.deb).

2. Load the Flasher program on your PC, Mac, or Linux box from here (http://maemo.org/downloads/d3.php).

3. Run this Flasher command on your PC, Mac, or Linux machine: ./flasher --enable-rd-mode --reboot

Sorry AllThumbs: the flasher only operates on Linux and Mac..

If the powers-that-be made it work on Windows, things would be very simple.

paul

Mike Cane

2006-01-10, 21:19

Live via 770:

I was wondering WTF was up with his mentioning PC. Thought maybe Nokia did something new while I was distracted by Apple. No joy.

But now I have X Term again, so it wasn't all a waste.

AllThumbs

2006-01-10, 21:50

Ah. Now I get it. Sounds like Nokia is just doing their part to rid the world of viruses and Trojans. :rolleyes:

Of course, anyone could send me their 770. Always willing to help. :D

putkowski

2006-01-10, 21:53

The biggest problem here is NOT that you need a Linux/OSX box to be root..

The biggest problem is the stupid conditional in the gainroot script that checks to see if the machine is in R & D mode before it will let you run as root !!!

If that conditional was not there, you could do

sudo gainroot

and setup the dropbear-server to run as root when the system starts

ln -s /var/lib/install/etc/init.d/dropbear-server /etc/rc2.d/S20dropbear-server

(Note: the capital S is important... and you should have all 3 dropbear packages installed...)

Then, after a simple reboot, you can

1. connect via wi-fi manually.
2. use SSH or puTTY on your PC to login to the 770 and do "programming" from the comfort of your regular keyboard and screen.

AND GUESS WHAT? At NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE you (or your significant other) can USE the 770 AT THE SAME TIME to browse/read news/play games.... THAT'S RIGHT !!! IT'S MULTI-USER !!!

Some things you might want to do:

1. change the PATH= in /home/user/.profile and /root/.profile to include /var/lib/install/usr/bin (as seen elsewhere here) so xterm can find "installed" programs without typing War and Peace as a path name...

2. a. add a link to scp (secure copy)

ln -sf /var/lib/install/usr/bin/scp /usr/bin/scp

b. install WinSCP on your Windows PC so you can use a graphical browser on all of your 770 files, including the ability to edit them and change their permissions (without having to copy them to the MMC and without your Windows editor changing their permissions when you copy them back from your MMC.) Yessir !! you can copy files from and to your PC to the memory card or any folder WITHOUT A USB WIRE !!! Why should we be second-class citizens like wire-bound Ipod users??? We can load MP3's RIGHT THROUGH THE AIR !!! (Your mileage may vary.)

How many people would actually stumble onto sudo gainroot if they didn't know what they were looking for? Couldn't we just have gainroot ask us to type Yes each time it's run to acknowledge we know what we're doing?

Mike Cane

2006-01-10, 22:05

How many people would actually stumble onto sudo gainroot if they didn't know what they were looking for?

Sudo Gainroot sounds like a fekkin Star Wars character. Or was it LOTR?

putkowski

2006-01-10, 22:15

Sudo Gainroot sounds like a fekkin Star Wars character. Or was it LOTR?

Well put, Mike, but if you use the capital letters, it won't work... I think it was LOTR... (the e.e. cummings edition... 'neath tile or thatch that man is rich who has a scrach for every itch...)

P

fpp

2006-01-10, 22:52

Well, if you're not afraid of xterms, it's easy enough to flash your 770 from a Windows PC:
- download the Linux flasher from maemo and save it to the root of your C: drive
- download a Knoppix live CD image and burn it (to a RW, if you're cheap :-)
- boot from that CD, type "enter", wait for pretty graphic interface to load
- there should be at least one hard drive icon up left, labeled something like '/dev/hda1'
- note that name, click icon - this "mounts" the drive (ie makes it available as a Linux directory)
- open "root xterm" from the "start menu"
- type 'cd /mnt/hda1' (or whatever the drive name was)
- type 'ls' - you should see the flasher
- type './flasher --enable-rd-mode --enable-usb-host-mode --reboot'
- connect 770 as described before

Voilà - you have root acces AND usb host. Now you can pop the CD from the tray and resume normal XP experience :-)