Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services [Archive] - Page 2 - maemo.org

gerbick

2013-10-06, 18:06

Only way Nokia could sell those tablets even moderately, would be to leak (tor) step-by-step instructions how to install Cyanogen (http://www.cyanogenmod.org/about) or Replicant (http://replicant.us/about/) Android to it.

That's a sure-fire way to make an already barely selling product sell even less. Having the ability to install Cyanogenmod, et al, is only appealing to a minority of the people.

Just as it seems the Surface RT. So to see Nokia build that first, possibly... shows how in touch with customer needs they were in the end.

Read: Not at all.

mikecomputing

2013-10-06, 18:46

juiceme

2013-10-06, 18:54

Only way Nokia could sell those tablets even moderately, would be to leak (tor) step-by-step instructions how to install Cyanogen or Replicant Android to it.

That's a sure-fire way to make an already barely selling product sell even less. Having the ability to install Cyanogenmod, et al, is only appealing to a minority of the people.

well, i'd say thats quite a pessimistic view to hold... I feel you are correct that the slice of public intrested in such a thing is fairly small but every sale counts, right? And I fail to see why would it make it sell less really?

Just as it seems the Surface RT. So to see Nokia build that first, possibly... shows how in touch with customer needs they were in the end.
Read: Not at all.

Yes, it really makes no sense to introduce new RT tablets when the current offering has shown people how useless it is. With windows tablets I am afraid the pro version is the only usable solution

For windos-liking people, that is. For quite a lot of people nothing that comes from MS is usable...

jalyst

2013-10-06, 18:58

To be fair, there's LOTS of murmurings lately about some big changes coming to RT, i.e. making it mostly like Win8 & getting rid of of it's major annoyances, that remains to be seen though.

gerbick

2013-10-06, 20:22

well, i'd say thats quite a pessimistic view to hold... I feel you are correct that the slice of public intrested in such a thing is fairly small but every sale counts, right? And I fail to see why would it make it sell less really?

I wouldn't say it's pessimistic as much as it's realistic. Don't get me wrong, that's on my mind whenever I purchase something - "What operating systems can I place on this gadget" and "Can I root this thing?" are actually always in my mind. But I'm realistic enough to know that I'm a minority in that.

And it probably won't make it sell less; it just won't help it sell more.

Yes, it really makes no sense to introduce new RT tablets when the current offering has shown people how useless it is. With windows tablets I am afraid the pro version is the only usable solution

For windos-liking people, that is. For quite a lot of people nothing that comes from MS is usable...

Here's where I become the hypocrite. I own a Surface RT - but it was purchased for me by a company to evaluate its validity as a platform. I told them to pass but kept the RT anyway (they offered).

It's not as much bad as it's just missing the point. RT shouldn't have a desktop mode whatsoever. Makes no sense since I can't install whatever I want. So it's just a waste. Nokia going for RT is like them going for Windows Phone 7 sales after Windows Phone 8 announced that they'd not have an upgrade path.

Dave999

2013-10-06, 21:00

gerbick

2013-10-06, 21:20

As long as Google and apple don't have a tablet with full desktop experience surface pro is a valid alternative. I can see surface continue to grow in the years to come since many are familiar with Windows desktop/laptop. It would help if microsoft could decrease the price for the pro...

Surface pro 2 feels like the most exciting product from Microsoft and would be cool if they could push full desktop experience to 5 inch phone in the years to come.

Hope apple do something simular with Ipad.

Apple's going in the other direction. They're merging tablet user experience into the desktop OS. Launchpad brings the iOS icon based type of launcher to the desktop. Notifications are now present and they're a lot like the notifications on iOS 6.

And if you think about it (think long term), there's gotta be a reason why they're converging. And I think the iPhone 5S is the clue.

64-bit ARM chip, integrating their mobile OS workflows (full screen apps, aforesaid items, et al) into the desktop could mean sooner than later they will have a ARM based MacBook AIR that could offer incredible battery life that the Surface Pro and even Surface RT cannot offer. And what's to stop them from converting all but their Pro offerings onto ARM? The software is the only hurdle at the moment - same issue on Windows RT.

If that's the case, Surface is indeed going in the wrong direction. Having a desktop on a product that's touted as being your "tablet" is just wrong. Metro is truly a mobile OS interface. Large, touch enabled, and finger friendly. After trying to use the Surface RT and going into the desktop, I've all but lost my religion. Hit areas are far too small, it just seems wrong without a keyboard and mouse.

Microsoft truly needs to have Desktop, Tablet and Phone levels of UI's. Desktop would include Enterprise, having Windows 2012 Server also have the Metro UI is just plain wrong.

mikecomputing

2013-10-06, 21:25

well, i'd say thats quite a pessimistic view to hold... I feel you are correct that the slice of public intrested in such a thing is fairly small but every sale counts, right? And I fail to see why would it make it sell less really?

Yes, it really makes no sense to introduce new RT tablets when the current offering has shown people how useless it is. With windows tablets I am afraid the pro version is the only usable solution

For windos-liking people, that is. For quite a lot of people nothing that comes from MS is usable...

Buying a Nokia tablet just to root it and run Linux instead is just plain ridicilous when there already exists others.

Why the f... do you want to pay taxes to Microsoft to run Linux? It has been so for years now! Thats how they had run theyr desktop/laptop bussiness time to stop feed them!

gerbick

2013-10-06, 21:27

Buying a Nokia tablet just to root it and run Linux instead is just plain ridicilous when there already exists others.

The build quality on some of those other tablets is just plain poor though.

qwazix

2013-10-06, 23:22

gerbick

2013-10-07, 00:55

They can't fix the annoyances of RT. The main problem is that it looks exactly the same as Win8 and people *will* be misled in store. Then go back to the store and ask the rep: "There is a problem with my new laptop (tablet)" I downloaded (Firefox|vlc|chrome|whatever) and it doesn't get installed"

That is indeed a valid concern and one that Microsoft has yet to address. Looking like the Surface 2/Surface 2 Pro will continue down that path of not differentiating the different chips and limitations of the OS's again.

Tell me what would you do if you were that rep, the next time a possibly clueless customer is courting the Yoga 11.
"Dear sir, this is not a real PC it cannot run your favorite software, you know that, yes?"
Still wondering why it doesn't sell?

Training can only do so much. But you're right... they've yet to address the clueless. Perhaps it will be another $900 million+ mistake.

They lost their chance to make that work. If they released RT with a home screen different enough and without a desktop it could have worked.

I keep telling folks that will listen...

Windows 8.1 RT = Metro start tiles - Desktop + unified mobile non x86 store (labeled as such)
Windows 8.1 Pro = Metro + Desktop + x86 store (labeled as such)
Windows 8.x Phone = Metro start tiles + unified mobile non x86 store (labeled as such)
Windows 2012 Server = Metro (optional, I personally HATE it on Server) + Desktop + Powershell + x86 store + MSDN

Drop non-Pro Windows OS, only Windows 8.1 Pro.

jalyst

2013-10-07, 04:30

It's too early to say, it sounds like they've got some major changes planned for RT, I'll hold final judgment till then.
But yeah, so far Win 8 tablets are looking way more interesting to me...

pichlo

2013-10-07, 08:28

Most people will continue use Windows even if they only use it for simple task like web surfing.

I've recently splashed out on a new laptop. After 6+ years of using Linux exclusively on my home machine, the idea of paying Microsoft Tax™ really stroked my hair the wrong way. So I spent a lot of time researching into buying a new, reasonably specced laptop without Windows preinstalled.

I hate to say that I failed miserably. Yes, there are options, but at least here in the UK the reality is such that a new laptop without Windows is at least 20% more expensive than the equivalent with Windows on. In my case it translates to saving about £150 by giving part of it to Microsoft. Much as I hate myself for that, I took those 150 pieces of silver and now I pay for it with my frustration with Windows 8's huge step back in terms of usability.

I understand the economics of it: OS-free or Linux-preinstlled laptops sell in much smaller quantities through small companies who cannot afford to push the prices down the way the behemoths like Dell do. But the point is that yes, people will continue using Windows. Not necessarily through conscious choice but through a perceived lack of other options.

zimon

2013-10-07, 09:05

This cannot be fixed unfortunately. Linux on ARM makes sense as you still have all the apps in repos, readily recompiled for you. It is impossible to recompile the world of windows, and an emulator is out of the question, not enough grunt.

"Normal" desktop Linuxes have poor touchscreen support and applications are not designed for a touch screen UX.
Therefore Android (Cyanogen/Replicant (http://replicant.us/about/)) could actually be a working solution and I was not fully joking when I said Nokia should just leak instructions (via Tor (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/04/nsa-gchq-attack-tor-network-encryption)) how step-by-step Android can be installed to their tablet-device.

@mikecomputing: Just start making Qt-apps to Android (http://necessitas.kde.org/) while waiting some other Linux variant (, which you'd like more, and me too perhaps) is really alive. Android-devices are good, they just work, although they are not perfect.

danramos

2013-10-07, 11:52

I've recently splashed out on a new laptop. After 6+ years of using Linux exclusively on my home machine, the idea of paying Microsoft Tax™ really stroked my hair the wrong way. So I spent a lot of time researching into buying a new, reasonably specced laptop without Windows preinstalled.

I hate to say that I failed miserably. Yes, there are options, but at least here in the UK the reality is such that a new laptop without Windows is at least 20% more expensive than the equivalent with Windows on. In my case it translates to saving about £150 by giving part of it to Microsoft. Much as I hate myself for that, I took those 150 pieces of silver and now I pay for it with my frustration with Windows 8's huge step back in terms of usability.

I understand the economics of it: OS-free or Linux-preinstlled laptops sell in much smaller quantities through small companies who cannot afford to push the prices down the way the behemoths like Dell do. But the point is that yes, people will continue using Windows. Not necessarily through conscious choice but through a perceived lack of other options.

I understand and empathize with you. I did the same thing about a year ago but, truthfully, I would be okay with it if there was an option for refunding me back the cost of the bundled software that I will never use and never wanted with the hardware I did want. I'd be okay with that, at least.

switch-hitter

2013-10-07, 17:34

When you purchase a new Windows PC it often comes preloaded with a 30 day demo of software a, b and c and a lite version of software x, y and z. The vendors of those programs pay large volume manufacturers to preinstall them on new PCs and cummulatively those payments add up to more than the cost of an OEM Windows license.

Although it irritates me that PCs invariably come with Windows preinstalled the 'Windows Tax' to the end user is actually probably zero.

If you're determined to get an OS free PC in the UK ebuyer's Zoostorm (http://www.ebuyer.com/store/Computer/cat/Laptops/Zoostorm) range are the best I know of. For laptops they only seem to have pink in available at the moment but I think it looks a decent spec for the money.

mikecomputing

2013-10-07, 19:14

"Normal" desktop Linuxes have poor touchscreen support and applications are not designed for a touch screen UX.
Therefore Android

Here we go again with Android propaganda. Ever heard of plasmaactive?

strongm

2013-10-07, 20:07

>Ever heard of plasmaactive?

Plasma Active is not based on a "Normal desktop Linux". It is based on Mer, which is a mobile optimised Linux. You are simply helping zimon make his point.

zimon

2013-10-07, 20:40

Here we go again with Android propaganda. Ever heard of plasmaactive?

apps, apps, apps.
Apps with a touchscreen UX.

http://www.appbrain.com/stats/number-of-android-apps

Current number of Android apps in the market: 861190

That's why Jolla has ACL in Sailfish and that's why Samsung will have ACL in Tizen.

Android's SDK and Java language apparently just works. It is relatively easy to make scalable apps with those, so lower and higher level hw is supported w/o too much hassle, and small & big screen sizes.
Qt (http://qt-project.org/search/tag/android) enables the above also, but it is more difficult and bad programmers can mess things up easily.
I very much doubt, if there ever will be even 20% of touch screen UX Qt apps compared to number of Android apps.

Kangal

2013-10-07, 23:57

Microsoft buying Nokia?
The vision is realized.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI_xuFA18m4&feature=player_embedded#t=1

danramos

2013-10-08, 02:30

Microsoft buying Nokia?
The vision is realized.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI_xuFA18m4&feature=player_embedded#t=1

That's sadly appropriate.

juiceme

2013-10-08, 05:20

I understand and empathize with you. I did the same thing about a year ago but, truthfully, I would be okay with it if there was an option for refunding me back the cost of the bundled software that I will never use and never wanted with the hardware I did want. I'd be okay with that, at least.

There used to be a way to get discount when buying a laptop with pre-installed Windows.
You could return the installation disks to manufacturer (or was it directly to MS?) and wipe the OS out from the HDD and they'd mail you a check for the price of the OS.
I wonder at what point (and how, by what right?) they made that impossible since I have not heard of anything like that in the last 10 years or so...

pichlo

2013-10-08, 07:31

It might have something to do with the fact that you no longer get the installation disc. Instead, everything is now on an OEM partition, recovery partition or whatever your dealer calls it. Quite a PITA if you ask me, 12GB wasted in my case.

zimon

2013-10-08, 09:49

There used to be a way to get discount when buying a laptop with pre-installed Windows.
You could return the installation disks to manufacturer (or was it directly to MS?) and wipe the OS out from the HDD and they'd mail you a check for the price of the OS.
I wonder at what point (and how, by what right?) they made that impossible since I have not heard of anything like that in the last 10 years or so...

This should be lobbied in EU and in US to be possible again. That is how it should be as it is technically easily possible. Especially nowadays when Microsoft also requires to register your product on-line.

switch-hitter

2013-10-08, 12:45

I think you used to be able to reject the terms of the EULA and request a refund for the license fee based on that but the manufacturers (possibly under pressure from Microsoft) then started insisting you had to send the whole kit and caboodle back so it was all or nothing.

aironeous

2013-11-03, 13:39

The smoking gun.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/terokuittinen/2013/09/24/nokia-admits-giving-misleading-information-about-elops-compensation/

I knew it.

Elop was brought on board to destroy Nokia handsets and sell it to Microhard. It's right there in the contract, a bonus if this happens.
So they (the Board) gave up on handsets that long ago and intended to shed that part of their business.
When they were called on it by the media they tried to play it off as a professional mistake. They looked away for 3 years while he destroyed every part of Nokia handset and carrier relations!

Slashdot rewrote Elop's burning platform Memo in light of this. It's kind of funny.
http://slashdot.org/topic/cloud/a-timely-revision-of-elops-burning-platform-memo/

Full market and management analysis of how Elop destroyed Nokia handset.
http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/09/now-we-know-why-nokias-elop-had-a-25m-personal-bonus-clause-from-the-nokia-board-if-he-was-able-to-s.html

Elop belongs in jail and so does any board members that did not object to his decisions. These 1%ers need reality to hit them in the face so they don't play with other people lives like that, like it is a surreal game, like there are no real consequences.
There is a clear conflict of interest here and all agreements with M$ need to be cancelled and if it is going to be sold it should be open to all bidders not a secret closed deal at a low price.

Lumiaman

2013-11-03, 13:45

noetus

2013-11-08, 10:49

Ray of hope (http://seekingalpha.com/article/1819782-will-this-company-grab-nokias-phone-business-from-microsoft?source=email_rt_article_readmore)?

(I know this mentioned before, but not this article)

jalyst

2013-11-08, 12:19

I don't think it'll get wings, they left it waaaay too late, investors just aren't listening any more.
They're only hearing sweet whisperings in their ears from the primary bidding camp nowadays.
I wish them luck but it looks quite amateurish, & mostly "big talk" that they can't deliver on...
I hope I'm wrong though, I really do....

juiceme

2013-11-08, 12:49

Just got an SMS invitation to the shareholders meeting on 19th this month.
It'll be intresting... :D

jalyst

2013-11-08, 14:43

Nokia or Nokita? Either way, plz let us know what your impressions are.

gerbick

2013-11-08, 17:18

Microsoft would do well with Elop as CEO. He's already thinking about selling off the Xbox and canceling Bing. People wanted the downfall of Microsoft, it might just happen sooner with Elop at the helm (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-08/microsoft-ceo-candidate-elop-said-to-mull-windows-shift.html)...

Dave999

2013-12-05, 19:42

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/04/us-eu-commission-microsoft-nokia-idUSBRE9B30SP20131204

EU Approved!
http://www.biospectrumasia.com/IMG/168/21168/gilead-s-viread-approved-for-two-new-indications-hiv-and-hepatitis-b-in-european-union-262x174.jpg

gerbick

2013-12-05, 23:08

Even though I can't/won't see your message, Dave999... nobody cares about Nokia's handset unit being purchased by Microsoft.

Nobody cares.

stuartpaul12

2014-04-22, 12:30

Microsoft buys Nokia. its good, because Nokia market in very poor situation. One reason for Nokia sold, it is not launch any android mobile in market.

strongm

2014-04-22, 12:57

it is not launch any android mobile in market.

Well, apart from the Nokia X range (http://www.nokia.com/global/products/nokia-x/) ...

herpderp

2014-04-22, 13:51

Today's news (http://tech.firstpost.com/news-analysis/nokia-phone-business-to-be-renamed-microsoft-mobile-222109.html). The name 'Nokia' will be banished from the world of smartphones. How sad.

PMaff

2014-04-22, 14:01

As far as I know, Nokia still owns its patents, they will not been sold to Microsoft. This is a good news for Finland.

?
How long do you think will it last, till the rest of Nokia is also gone to
MS?

PMaff

2014-04-22, 14:06

Microsoft buying Nokia?
The vision is realized.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI_xuFA18m4&feature=player_embedded#t=1

I fear that the colors of the girls will be the colors of the MS bricks.
;)

PMaff

2014-04-22, 14:36

The handheld business has peeked. Nokia will never go back doing phones again. The future is in networks, TVs, streaming services, servers and has been so for some time already.

I had a small Nokia TV for years:

http://www.bilder-space.de/bild-NokiaTVedjpg-15367.htm

klinglerware

2014-04-22, 14:41

I received the TOS update via e-mail. I was amused:

Nokia currently expects to complete the sale of its Devices & Services business to Microsoft in April 2014. With the completion of this transaction, a Microsoft Finnish affiliate* assumes responsibility for your personal data and the contractual relationships for the products and services related to this business. Microsoft cares deeply about your privacy and the protection of your personal data and will continue to collect and use your personal data in the same ways and for the same reasons as Nokia, and you should experience no difference as a result of the sale.

The take-away I received was "don't expect any support from us, but we'll feel free to continue mining your data". Oh well, c'est la vie welcome to the new millennium...

juiceme

2014-04-22, 18:04

?
How long do you think will it last, till the rest of Nokia is also gone to
MS?

well, hmm, forever?

There's no incentive for MS to try to acquire the core Nokia businesses, it was the handset line it was after. Rest of the Nokia products use operating systems and software that has nothing to do with MS.

MINKIN2

2014-04-22, 19:38

Is this bye bye Nokia? (until 2016)

http://technology.inquirer.net/35647/nokia-to-be-named-microsoft-mobile

__-_-_-__

2014-04-22, 19:58

I didn't login in some years because nokia ditch support and such.
but I just felt compelled today just to say that I was right and to say to all the nay sayers to stfu.
I told you so.

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1164649&postcount=566

herpderp

2014-04-22, 20:39

__-_-_-__

2014-04-22, 21:35

Psssh, 2012? Many of us knew this was the plan like a year before that, at least.

it was just an example. I've said that as soon as I knew that Elop was going to take charge.
I got trolled, flamed and mods even deleted some of my posts. No one believed me.

**** off to all of them. die nokia. die microshit. die elop.

herpderp

2014-04-22, 22:48

Such rage. Very immature. Wow.

marxian

2014-04-23, 00:39

it was just an example. I've said that as soon as I knew that Elop was going to take charge.
I got trolled, flamed and mods even deleted some of my posts. No one believed me.

**** off to all of them. die nokia. die microshit. die elop.

I'm not sure that nobody believed you. I think that the idea of Elop being a trojan horse was pretty much common consensus around here when he was hired. I don't buy that idea myself. I think Nokia employed Elop precisely because of his connections with Microshaft, to make the sale go smoothly. The board knew exactly what they were getting.

endsormeans

2014-04-23, 04:53

Second that ... it was blatantly purposeful.
It has alllll the signatures of a deliberately crafted master plan..
A plan to get in bed with a monster corp. and make alot of money for a few in the process....Unfortunately devoted brand consumers...ie... sayyyy..."US" ...for example....are (for the most part...tho I'm sure a few would give them another chance) unlikely to be loyal consumers again in the future considering their behaviour in opting for this.... this...merger...(for lack of a better word)....and their abandonment of their customers.
I'm sure that once the party is over and Nokia comes to from the blackout during that wild time at the party....nursing the hangover in 2016 and turns over and sees the corp(ulent) (:D) M$ stretched out in her bed... then the screaming will begin .... XD

What's that saying again ?..
"..careful what you wish for.....
...you just might get it..."

juiceme

2014-04-23, 04:58

Is this bye bye Nokia? (until 2016)

http://technology.inquirer.net/35647/nokia-to-be-named-microsoft-mobile

Now just tell me why it's always the same thing with the media, whether it be paper-press or e-something, they just cannot get the details right :(
In a leaked letter, Nokia Oyj would become Microsoft Mobile Oy.
It's not about Nokia Oyj, it's just the bloody phones!

juiceme

2014-04-23, 05:03

I'm not sure that nobody believed you. I think that the idea of Elop being a trojan horse was pretty much common consensus around here when he was hired. I don't buy that idea myself. I think Nokia employed Elop precisely because of his connections with Microshaft, to make the sale go smoothly. The board knew exactly what they were getting.

Exactly. The whole thing was petty clear from the beginning, now as you look backwards on the developments; The highest management at Nokia saw that the future of mobile phones is not going to look that bright in a few years, so they made the decision to tie up the thing with MS so that in the end, if they had to chop off the devices, MS would be forced to buy it, and it would actually be the only option for them.

I do not have to like it, but I admire the boldness of the move.

aegis

2014-04-23, 17:20

The highest management at Nokia saw that the future of mobile phones is not going to look that bright in a few years, so they made the decision to tie up the thing with MS so that in the end, if they had to chop off the devices, MS would be forced to buy it, and it would actually be the only option for them.

I do not have to like it, but I admire the boldness of the move.

I'm not sure 'bold' is the right adjective.

If they analysed their situation correctly and 'selling D&S to Microsoft' was the correct solution then it doesn't say much for their faith in their own development and business.

To me it seems 'cowardly' but I'm maybe vesting too much desire in seeing a once great European company and an open (mostly) OS succeed against US mega-corps and the harvesting of their customers. All along we heard about the plucky Finns and their 'sisu' which seemed to disappear when Elop arrived. Whether that was Elop or the boards doing, it doesn't really matter. Onward.

abyzthomas

2014-04-23, 17:57

After about 15 years of Nokia!!!! I finally deleted my Nokia Account today.

juiceme

2014-04-23, 19:06

I'm not sure 'bold' is the right adjective.

If they analysed their situation correctly and 'selling D&S to Microsoft' was the correct solution then it doesn't say much for their faith in their own development and business.

To me it seems 'cowardly' but I'm maybe vesting too much desire in seeing a once great European company and an open (mostly) OS succeed against US mega-corps and the harvesting of their customers. All along we heard about the plucky Finns and their 'sisu' which seemed to disappear when Elop arrived. Whether that was Elop or the boards doing, it doesn't really matter. Onward.

There's much that is true, however I actually have came to accept the official explanation given, that there are diminishing returns in the smartphone business as it is; Look at Apple now for example: It is the most profitable of the top vendors, but for how long? They have not managed to get out anything new since iPhone 4 really. It is only matter of time before people start turning away from their products. And same goes for all in the android camp, it has turned pretty boring lately...

There still is niche available for small and innovative manufacturers, but the large ones cannot really compete any longer.

Selling off the devices division was good way to raise capital to invest in more interesting areas, to reform the company once more like so many times before.

FlashInTheNight86

2014-04-24, 04:43

Why you people blame Microsoft so much? In comparison with others, they're the good guys. Half of the world uses their PC products without actually paying and they don't care much, look at their protection. Linux, the major alternative in different flavors, is too user-unfriendly to compete, at least so far. Nokia was great but that Nokia is gone anyway. If Microsoft succeeds in mobile markets, that'd be great. Wish them best of luck.

juiceme

2014-04-24, 05:14

Linux, the major alternative in different flavors, is too user-unfriendly to compete, at least so far.

Not really. Linux is in most ways superior to Windows in all computing environments, from the tiniest to the largest systems ever made.
Even as desktop environment Linux variants shine over Windows in usability and customability.

There's just one area that Windows is better than Linux, and that is in gaming. The reason for that is just because video chipset vendors do not open their interfaces to Linux developers, and do not themselves create drivers of similar specifications to Windows and Linux.

Nokia was great but that Nokia is gone anyway. If Microsoft succeeds in mobile markets, that'd be great. Wish them best of luck.

Nokia is not going anywhere last time I looked, and it is doing currently better than in a long time. The future looks pretty bright too :D

Microsoft will also be in the mobiles for some time, as they do have barrels of cash to burn. And burn they will, in the end, but it is nowhere near yet. The market share of WP is negilible everywhere else than in finland, and it will probably start to dwindle here too in time.

FlashInTheNight86

2014-04-24, 09:04

There's just one area that Windows is better than Linux, and that is in gaming. You forgot office, and professional audio & video production software. Meanwhile, a lot of games work well using wine.

chilango

2014-04-24, 14:32

What is wrong for office alternative in Openoffice/Libreoffice?

For audio/video i didnt expirienced that

herpderp

2014-04-24, 15:32

What is wrong for office alternative in Openoffice/Libreoffice?

Feature comparison (https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office)

tissot

2014-04-24, 16:12

I'm not sure 'bold' is the right adjective.

If they analysed their situation correctly and 'selling D&S to Microsoft' was the correct solution then it doesn't say much for their faith in their own development and business.

They are selling their directly phone related R&D though, that at least back in 2011 represented only 20% of their R&D costs, Nokia Research and NSN is the main user of R&D, both that are kept inside the new Nokia. Nokia Research includes all the wider research, like their graphene studies.

To me it seems 'cowardly' but I'm maybe vesting too much desire in seeing a once great European company and an open (mostly) OS succeed against US mega-corps and the harvesting of their customers. All along we heard about the plucky Finns and their 'sisu' which seemed to disappear when Elop arrived. Whether that was Elop or the boards doing, it doesn't really matter. Onward.

There wasn't indeed anything bold about the sales. They ****ed up, they ****ed up so badly in 3 years time, that it will go down in to history books as one of the quickest downfalls of such a large company.
It really is a shame. Not as a Finn, but more as a european. We really need our own, european alternatives.

Dave999

2014-04-24, 16:21

After about 15 years of Nokia!!!! I finally deleted my Nokia Account today.

One could say that you wasted 15 years. And for what? ;) You lost :D

Edit: sorry for break it to you...

chilango

2014-04-24, 16:53

Feature comparison (https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office)

So?
Some stuff have only MS Office, some stuff only Openoffice.

Also 95% all of Office Users only use 5 % of there features. ;)

marxian

2014-04-24, 17:26

What is wrong for office alternative in Openoffice/Libreoffice?

There is nothing wrong with them. What is wrong is Microshaft doing their best to prevent interoperability between their own office suite and FOSS alternatives by creating their own document 'standards'. This makes it difficult for people who would like to use those FOSS alternatives when creating/editing documents that will also be viewed/edited in Microshaft Office, which is what most large organisations still use.

juiceme

2014-04-24, 19:29

Feature comparison (https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office)

Exactly :D

It seems both suites have tons of features I never use... My normal usage pattern is to open/view/edit microsoft-format documents sent by others, and create texts and spreadsheets on LibreOffice.

FlashInTheNight86

2014-04-25, 02:46

What is wrong for office alternative in Openoffice/Libreoffice? Compatibility problems. I personally use OpenOffice, just in case, but for office workers that is not an option.

juiceme

2014-04-25, 04:24

Compatibility problems. I personally use OpenOffice, just in case, but for office workers that is not an option.

I have to disagree, I work in an office.

Jaco2k

2014-04-25, 04:37

How about staying on topic? ;)

Either way, I am still curious about who is backing Jolla. Part of me wants to believe that not all in the Nokia board were happy with the decision to sell and Jolla was the plan B.

Jolla now has 2 years to prove and establish itself and I bet come 2016 we will see the "Nokia Jolla"

juiceme

2014-04-25, 06:55

How about staying on topic? ;)

Sure... but it is a sign of the topic gone out of focus when people start drifting in and out of the real issue, right?

What more can you say about it, really?
Since NMP went WP, I have to say I just lost all intrest in the topic.
I only come back to this topic to try to correct people when somebody assets some silly notions of Nokia being sold to Microsoft, when it was all the time just about Devices&Services (ex-NMP).

Either way, I am still curious about who is backing Jolla. Part of me wants to believe that not all in the Nokia board were happy with the decision to sell and Jolla was the plan B.

No.

Jolla now has 2 years to prove and establish itself and I bet come 2016 we will see the "Nokia Jolla"

No.

Rauha

2014-04-25, 07:41

Either way, I am still curious about who is backing Jolla. Part of me wants to believe that not all in the Nokia board were happy with the decision to sell and Jolla was the plan B.

Nokia certainly isn't backing Jolla and has nothing to do with Jolla. Apart from the small investment that was part of Nokia's lay off progam given to sacked employees.

Last month (source (http://mobiili.fi/2014/03/23/arvopaperi-jollan-suurimmat-omistajat-julki/)) Jolla was owned by::

Steven Lau (20,9%) <- Hong Kong/Chinese tycoon who made his fortune by importing Nokia phones to the chinese in the 90's.
Sami Pienmäki (17,3%)
Stefano Mosconi (16,4%)
Marc Dillon (16,4 %)
Jolly Boat (2,6%) <- fund for non-founder Jolla employees
Other investors all <3%

Jolla now has 2 years to prove and establish itself and I bet come 2016 we will see the "Nokia Jolla"
Hopefully Nokia doens't get in any way involved with Jolla and screw it up.

mick3_de

2014-04-25, 08:24

So who owns the missing 25%?
What about Antii Saarnio? Does he also has a stake of 17.3%?

Last month (source (http://mobiili.fi/2014/03/23/arvopaperi-jollan-suurimmat-omistajat-julki/)) Jolla was owned by::

Steven Lau (20,9%) <- Hong Kong/Chinese tycoon who made his fortune by importing Nokia phones to the chinese in the 90's.
Sami Pienmäki (17,3%)
Stefano Mosconi (16,4%)
Marc Dillon (16,4 %)
Jolly Boat (2,6%) <- fund for non-founder Jolla employees
Other investors all <3%

Jaco2k

2014-04-25, 12:02

tissot

2014-04-25, 13:52

I think you are naive if you think "Nokia" (or part of the board) did not/does not have interests in Jolla.

What about all the Nokia IP that is a simple evolution of Meego/Maemo that Jolla uses?

Pretty sure Nokia would have sued Jolla long time ago if they would not have a stake in it.

Jolla was part of the Nokia's Bride program, where Nokia let 18 000 employees start their own companies from the research they had done inside the company. Jolla was one of the among 400 companies created by this program starting from 2011.

Nokia certainly still owns the patents, but it probably got similar agreement that they got with MS at the moment. I don't think Nokia is invested to the company as it has zero interest on Sailfish OS as a whole. I wold also imagine if Nokia Growth Partners owned large enough part of Jolla for it to matter at all, they would need to inform this as they are a public company.

You might be downplaying the patriotism and atmosphere towards Nokia at that time. Nokia's board is/was mostly Finnish and there was a lot of discussion about the 160 million euros pumped to the company by Finland. Why this whole Bridge program happened in the first place.

marxian

2014-04-25, 14:16

So who owns the missing 25%?

Elop. I hear he's busy making the necessary alterations to his 'Burning Platform' memo template as we speak (s/nokia/jolla). Unfortunately, the memo is in DOCX format, and I believe they use LibreOffice at Jolla, so who knows what it will look like when the employees attempt to read it.

rm42

2014-04-25, 14:57

It looks like Elop is one hamburger away from a heart attack:

http://rack.0.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE0LzA0LzI1L2Y4L1NhdHlhTmFkZWxsLjk4MGVjLmpwZw pwCXRodW1iCTk1MHg1MzQjCmUJanBn/414dcf6c/4b6/Satya-Nadella-Stephen-Elop1.jpg

http://mashable.com/2014/04/25/nokia-devices-is-now-officially-a-part-of-microsoft/

jalyst

2014-04-25, 17:58

The talk about IP being loaned/gifted was compete baloney, both Nokia & Jolla formally refuted that several times, yet it's constantly rehashed.
Could it happen in the future? Maybe, who knows, I very much doubt it though. IP however has been licensed, on reasonable terms...
Also, Jolla doesn't have any of Nokia's IP as a result of building on top of MeeGo, that's a mis-comprehension of what MeeGo/MeeGoCE was.
Aside from that, nowadays MeR/Nemo/Sailfish is so different from those early days of MeeGo that it may as well NOT be based on MeeGo.

akaSM

2014-04-25, 18:30

minimos

2014-04-25, 21:48

Jolla was part of the Nokia's Bride program
s/Bride/Bridge/

blue_led

2014-04-26, 19:34

pycage

2014-04-27, 15:05

Also, Jolla doesn't have any of Nokia's IP as a result of building on top of MeeGo, that's a mis-comprehension of what MeeGo/MeeGoCE was.
Aside from that, nowadays MeR/Nemo/Sailfish is so different from those early days of MeeGo that it may as well NOT be based on MeeGo.

Nokia never brought a device running MeeGo to market. All public MeeGo work from Nokia was released as open source, and Jolla builds on that.
MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan was, despite its name, Maemo and not MeeGo. Maemo is dead, except for a few open source pieces that survived into MeeGo CE, which was later renamed to Nemo, and became the basis of Sailfish OS.

gerbick

2014-04-27, 16:42

It looks like Elop is one hamburger away from a heart attack

That's fat gained from drinking the tears of all of the Nokia fans. He looks full.

(18)

mikecomputing

2014-04-27, 17:23

One more reason to hate M$ to death. It is not about money they can get by selling phones, they can not compete with Android sales.
I think this is all about NSA ( US ) global spy program. Hard to believe that NOKIA as europeean company could accept putting spy software on phones as Siri do on iphones. Now US gain full controll of mobile OS with Android, IOS and M$mobile.
Now sky is the limit so let fill NSA servers wntil they run out of space with pet, food, et c. all day long junk photos and stupid facebook coments.

Oh hey,lets blame microsoft for NSA also. Especially those running Android? Now since when is this different from Google, Samsung or whatever else? All is in bed with NSA or other similar organisations. ever heard of that idiot in Russian named Putin? who want his own controlled Internet. Or China or EU or whatever?

True is same **** different name.

peterleinchen

2014-04-27, 19:41

Another thing:

Please see new Privacy Policy (http://www.nokia.com/global/privacy/privacy/faqs/faq/):
4. Question: If I understand correctly, Microsoft Mobile’s privacy policy only applies to certain services. How do I know which privacy policy applies to which services after the sale?

Answer:
Microsoft’s purchase of Nokia’s Devices & Services business includes all Lumia, Asha and S40, S30, Symbian and MeeGo-based devices as well as certain former Nokia applications and services related to these devices. Any personal data that is collected in connection with the transferred business, is governed by the Microsoft Mobile privacy policy. You can view this policy at here

Does that read we Maemonians are not assimilated?
Too bad I also own a N9 ;)

If so we are lucky to have taken over Maemo (Fremantle) as community, but would also like to have the same for MeeGo (Harmattan).

Win7Mac

2014-04-27, 20:18

Does that read we Maemonians are not assimilated?...
If so we are lucky to have taken over Maemo (Fremantle) as community...

That should be true. :)

peterleinchen

2014-04-28, 06:45

Thanks.

But bad luck for all MeeGo/Harmattan lover then, as M$ will prolly never release any stuff to this community (and let Harmattan die?).
At least sdk repo of harmattan-dev is already gone...
(but not really topic for this thread, or?)

jalyst

2014-04-28, 17:55

Nokia never brought a device running MeeGo to market. All public MeeGo work from Nokia was released as open source, and Jolla builds on that.
MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan was, despite its name, Maemo and not MeeGo. Maemo is dead, except for a few open source pieces that survived into MeeGo CE, which was later renamed to Nemo, and became the basis of Sailfish OS.

Yes, I know all that, but thanks for quoting me & further clarifying/expanding my post.

gerbick

2014-04-28, 19:03

Another thing:

Please see new Privacy Policy (http://www.nokia.com/global/privacy/privacy/faqs/faq/):

Does that read we Maemonians are not assimilated?
Too bad I also own a N9 ;)

If so we are lucky to have taken over Maemo (Fremantle) as community, but would also like to have the same for MeeGo (Harmattan).

So to all of those folks that swore they'd never support Microsoft. Your account here does just that.

Great times we live in...

(16)

Leinad

2014-04-29, 20:49

Just saw that on 9gag :)

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/aM1DMAW_700b_v2.jpg (http://9gag.com/gag/aM1DMAW)

Dave999

2014-04-30, 16:04

Just saw that on 9gag :)

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/aM1DMAW_700b_v2.jpg (http://9gag.com/gag/aM1DMAW)

That might be actually be true, becouse Iphones and Galaxies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT7K_429YWc) can't.

Anyways, What happen with Lumiaman. Lost all his money in nokia stocks?

tissot

2014-04-30, 16:21

Anyways, What happen with Lumiaman. Lost all his money in nokia stocks?

Shouldn't Lumiaman be buying MS stock?
Nokia stock has been on its 3 year high for the past months. You could have tripled your cash in relatively short time.

It's another story if you bought any years ago...

Dave999

2014-05-09, 15:57

Working for Microsoft...nah, I rather go with aPple...

http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/09/apple-just-hired-nokias-pureview-camera-expert/

Dave999

2014-06-19, 20:39

Nokia launching Android Launcher...

https://www.zlauncher.com/

MINKIN2

2014-07-06, 12:52

Nokia launching Android Launcher...

https://www.zlauncher.com/

Just seen this and was surprised to learn that this IS an actual Nokia product, (not MS Nokia).

v0id

2014-07-17, 15:40

The Elop virus strikes again. After the kill of nokias linux-phone line some years ago, today this bloodthirsty bastard increases his body count.

Victim: Nokia X Android smartphone project

Source (http://www.gsmarena.com/microsoft_kills_nokia_x_android_phones_lays_off_18 000_people-news-9060.php)

jalyst

2014-07-17, 16:53

juiceme

2014-07-17, 18:55

There's still rumours from evleaks & the like that they're planning to introduce AOSP-based Lumia(s), not upper bottom-end devices like the X-range.
OR integrate an ACL, OR GFS* (instead of full-blown ACL & the downsides to that) into WP, so perhaps it's an exercise in shifting resources &/or reducing expenditure.

*Google Framework Services (much of it prolly reverse-engineered)

Mmmh... not very likely since it was the Oulu site which was just announced to be demolished that had all the experience on that area... the very place that the X-series devices were designed in...

jalyst

2014-07-17, 19:21

Doesn't mean some resources haven't been transferred already & more going forward, if it does exist it would've been worked on for ages & be nearing completion.
There's been several rumours lately from those that leak this stuff, 3 of them (Evan/Eldar/TomW -or was it PaulT) have been corroborating one another by saying basically the same stuff.
They are often wrong (especially Eldar), but they're sometimes VERY right...

Dave999

2014-07-17, 20:02

Elop has written yet another Message...android is a burning platform ;)

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2014/jul14/07-17announcement2.aspx

marxian

2014-07-17, 20:12

Elop has written yet another Message...android is a burning plattform ;)

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2014/jul14/07-17announcement2.aspx

Let's play Bullsh1t Bingo:

'focused on productivity'

'digital life experiences'

'focus our efforts'

'add the most value'

'get things done'

'fundamental focus'

'new areas of innovation'

'embody the finest of Microsoft’s digital work'

'accruing value to Microsoft’s overall strategy'

'accomplished within an appropriate financial envelope'

'enrich the Windows application ecosystem'

'take advantage of integration opportunities'

'thoughtfully expand Windows with new interaction models'

So, to put Elop's message in plain English, Nokia will be crystalising their financial assets by taking advantage of synergies made possible by a focussed strategy in a fast moving world that enables them to take advantage of integration opportunities and accomplish their goals within an appropriate financial envelope.

Or, as we say where I come from, Nokia are laying people off to save money (which will no doubt be spent on company golf tournaments).

juiceme

2014-07-17, 20:18

Elop has written yet another Message...android is a burning platform ;)

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2014/jul14/07-17announcement2.aspx

Only this time he's not urging people to jump & drown themselves in the icy waters of the north sea, I wonder why?
I thought the lemming analogy was his favourite... :D

juiceme

2014-07-17, 20:24

So, to put Elop's message in plain English, N̶o̶k̶i̶a̶ Microsoft will be crystalising their financial assets by taking advantage of synergies made possible by a focussed strategy in a fast moving world that enables them to take advantage of integration opportunities and accomplish their goals within an appropriate financial envelope.

Or, as we say where I come from, N̶o̶k̶i̶a̶ Microsoft are laying people off to save money (which will no doubt be spent on company golf tournaments).

There, corrected it for you :)

marxian

2014-07-17, 20:36

There, corrected it for you :)

Hehe. :o These rent-a-CEOs play musical chairs so often it's hard to keep up.

Fuzzillogic

2014-07-17, 22:45

Elop is more like a "rent-a-doomsday-device". With proven track record.

mscion

2014-07-17, 23:02

Sorry if I'm posting in the wrong place. Is this thread about buying or killing...

http://www.xda-developers.com/android/microsoft-kills-nokia-x/

panjgoori

2014-07-18, 03:20

Not just X series but they are also killing S40 devices series. Seems like Nokia (Microsoft part) will solely focus on Lumia series.

jalyst

2014-07-18, 04:10

OpEd from MNB, one of the main Nokia fan sites on the net...
http://mynokiablog.com/2014/07/17/oped-why-ms-layoffs-are-not-a-surprise-elop-not-to-blame-for-nokias-demise/
There's other slightly more clued-up lurkers there who could prolly have done a better job, but he's fairly on the money.

jalyst

2014-07-18, 04:19

Not just X series but they are also killing S40 devices series..

Glad they're finally getting rid of that, looong overdue, tis just a shame X (even better would've been Meltemi or both) didn't come sooner, thanks to Symbian/S30/S40 religion @Nokia.

gerbick

2014-07-18, 04:38

Elop is more like a "rent-a-doomsday-device". With proven track record.

So friggin' quotable. And perfect.

(+24)

nokiabot

2014-07-18, 10:05

Nah it should be hire-a-doomsday-service:D

Dave999

2014-07-18, 10:17

What do you mean doomsday? Elop cached in a big fat bonus for the Nokia purchase. It's all good.

http://theworldismyscallop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/elop.jpg

panjgoori

2014-07-23, 04:05

18 months remaining for Nokia to come in smartphone bussiness again. I hope they will come back and will surprise everyone with a High end MeeGo phone.

jalyst

2014-07-23, 04:45

Very unlikely IMO, smartphones have become far too commoditized*, every ODM (even Samsung) is struggling to turn a decent profit, only Apple's still doing kinda okay. Plus, everything Nokia has said/done to date suggests they're not interested. They may get back into some form of consumer electronics, but they'll try to break new ground, not plant in exhausted soil.** Much of their business going forward seems to be in the IP licensing game, low level (high costs) research, then licensing out those findings. That's their advanced materials division (can't recall latest name OTTOMH), they still have HERE & NSN of course.

Plus, some users seem to have short memories, or they didn't follow the entire Nokia + Maemo/MeeGo saga from the earliest days. Nokia's one of the last co's I'd want heavily involved with Jolla/MeR/Nemo/Sailfish. There's many rising Asian/Other ODM's (mostly Chinese -but not exclusively) currently riding the Android wave, who I'd much rather see embrace MeR/Nemo/Sailfish before Nokia. Of course, Jolla should go with Nokia*** if they're unsuccessful in wooing other ODM's & Nokia's one of the last options, after all, beggars can't be choosers. ;-)

*not-to-mention insanely competitive, at least on the hw side
**and already there's been (very vague) hints at what they might do
***assuming Nokia's ever interested, which I highly doubt

misterc

2014-07-23, 06:35

maybe this has already been posted around here, but i saw a news flash a week or two ago that m$KIA was going to emulate Jolla's Alien Dalvik technology in a (desperate) attempt to sell Lumia crap ¦-)))))
could explain the killing of X
and knowing Flop's business acumen, the only thing that matters is Lumia crap
btw, saw the zero theorem the other night... the only mobile one can see is... a NOKIA Lumia :eek: :cool: :rolleyes:
so, in an utopian consumerist future, NOKIA (still) exists ¦-))))))))))))))))

ps: but because nobody wants the crap, only an elusive / exclusive elite has such devices :D :rolleyes:

jalyst

2014-07-23, 06:40

Nope, that was already confirmed as mere FUD by evleaks & similar rumour merchants, what they'll do is stick with their universal apps program, which won't be (mostly) realised until ~Win 9 & WP 9, but is already well advanced. The closest they'll get to an ACL, is perhaps reverse engineering GFS (google framework services) & integrating that into WP, extremely unlikely they'll touch an ACL with a 10ft pole, makes sense for much smaller entities like Sailfish(Jolla), not MS & their pre-existing plans.

misterc

2014-07-23, 07:22

well, that leave us w/ Flop's acumen then ¦-)))))
btw m0%%0n is getting divorced - apparently the many hotel nights in Helsinki (while his family stayed in the North-West) had some consequences @ home too >¦-)
whichever way

jalyst

2014-07-23, 07:35

Ask Joe Belfiore himself, ask if MS would use a dalvik compatibility layer any time soon...

It seems very unlikely MS would be tempted to do that given:
(1) The axing of Nokia AOSP (w/MS services integrated)
(2) The plans for Win/RT/WP that pre-date these ACL/AOSP rumours that aren't yet fully executed (sounds very Nokia-esque! ;-P)

Maybe when (if) they're in a much direr position & their fully executed plans clearly aren't helping, but not now.
AOSP for the top-end (w. integrated MS/Other services) is a possibility, maybe a limited set of devices there, but still unlikely.

misterc

2014-07-23, 07:50

misterc

2014-07-23, 07:54

possibly the only reason why they haven't written off the NOKIA division (& its m0%%0nic mgr with it) yet is because last time the m$ big boss made such a write off (Surface, nearly a billion) he got handed his resignation, thus his successor decided to keep throwing good money after bad one, though less.

jalyst

2014-07-23, 07:55

well, they are in much direr position every passing quarter / reporting period, losing market like sand spilling out of a net.
S40 may have been NOKIA's golden egg lying milk swine for ages but thanks to (!) Flops back stabbing burning platform hara-kiri that's not so any more >¦-))))))
thus losing money on their "future" and not getting much (if any) money in w/ traditional products, one has to make choices, right?
still the wrong choice of course :D :eek: :rolleyes:
in fact, the only way m@ke$$h!t gets $$$$$$s in from the mobile market is thru their patent trolling on Android ¦-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
not much of an achievement for Flop, now, is it? Possibly the only reason why they haven't written off the NOKIA division (& its m0%%0nic mgr with it) yet is because last time the m$ big boss made such a write off (Surface, nearly a billion) he got handed his resignation, thus his successor decided to keep throwing good money after bad one, though less.

MS was still posting record profits until relatively recently, IIRC that only dipped for the 1st time very recently, regardless, they're still a long way off being in dire straits. S40's gone because they want to push WP down there too (or possibly Android LT), it was no longer competitive like it used to be, S30's still competitive so it remains, for now. N.B. Elop had nothing to do with them now being able to (partially) monetise Android. The new MM (formerly Nokia D&S's) division won't be going anywhere soon, it's one that MUST work for them LT or it's curtains*. Also, not sure what you're talking about WRT Surface division, it most def. wasn't canned. The SP3's in fact a very nice device, by the time the SP4 hits they really will have nailed it. Already the SP3's compelling, much harder sell to users already heavily into Android tablet + Win UP & esp. iPad + MBA/UP, but for folks who aren't using both FF's, or aren't using Android/iOS (there's still many), it's a compelling offering.

EDIT: well, as a matter of fact, getting the NOKIA patents was one of its achievements indeed, thus, yes, maybe the patent trolling on Android can keep m$KIA afloat somewhat longer...

That had nothing to do with helping them to monetise Android, that was to help them mostly in the area of radio tech/signalling etc.
IIRC Nokia kept most of that portfolio & are free to license it to others, but as part of the purchase of D&S's MS is allowed to use it w.o. licensing fees.
I could be wrong about the above sentence though, my memory's hazy now...

*Unless they successfully shift into business only, but really, one can't do one or the other, one must do both well now if one wants to remain a BIG player.
There's companies that "fly in the face" of that, but I have my (perhaps unfounded) doubts over their LT prospects...

misterc

2014-07-23, 08:17

misterc

2014-07-23, 08:22

[...] Also, not sure what you're talking about WRT Surface division,[...]

Bllamer forced out after $900M Surface RT debacle (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9241867/Ballmer_forced_out_after_900M_Surface_RT_debacle?p ageNumber=1) maybe?

fan boy, are we?

jalyst

2014-07-23, 08:22

yes, as long as companies will keep using LostDOS (aka windooooz) their "business model" is safe
but how long will that be?
& it doesn't mean they'll keep throwing good money after bad one forever into their mobile adventure.
just like NOKIA kept financing Maemo w/ their fat margins on Symbian.
again, and perversely, Flop killed NOKIA's golden egg lying milk giving swine; wouldn't he be glad now to have only one of those golden eggs?

You really seem to have some kind of blind hate for MS, that's odd, personally, I like to use/try anything & everything, no ideologies.
I want a future where there's a healthy mixture of ALL types of sw, proprietary/closed* & F/OSS, not purely one or the other...
We're still far from that, but, I think we're in better position than we've ever been, so long as Apple/Google don't continue at the same pace.
MS had a past where they ruthlessly dominated the commercial sw world, but that power's been waning for ages, it's resulted in a softer MS.
Nowadays you'll see a browser that adheres to standards as often as other major engines (often more), + MS offers it's sw/services on multiple platforms far more readily than others.

*MS actually contributes a **** ton to F/OSS nowadays, it's (mostly) come round to the notion that it's better to go with the flow than against it

jalyst

2014-07-23, 08:23

Bllamer forced out after $900M Surface RT debacle (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9241867/Ballmer_forced_out_after_900M_Surface_RT_debacle?p ageNumber=1) maybe?

fan boy, are we?

Fanboy? Why the insult? You seemed to be saying Surfce was canned, that's what I was addressing.

misterc

2014-07-23, 08:33

Fanboy? Why the insult? You seemed to be saying Surfce was canned, that's what I was addressing.

apologies about the "insult", not meant that way.
your rejoicing about Surface's evolution (independently of its being born dead) and ignoring... a $ 900M gap (and its consequences) seemed to hint that you were maybe not (totally) objective.

i don't care about m@ke$$h!t, surface or stinking to heaven's guts, but the allusion to Bllamer's losing his job was obvious enough, wasn't it?

Dave999

2014-07-23, 08:37

Fanboy? Why the insult? You seemed to be saying Surfce was canned, that's what I was addressing.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/50692617.jpg
...

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-because-im-just-kidding.png

...

jalyst

2014-07-23, 08:48

apologies about the "insult", not meant that way

I don't see how it could be taken any other way, anyway, apology accepted...

your rejoicing about Surface's evolution (independently of its being born dead) and ignoring... a $ 900M gap (and its consequences) seemed to hint that you were maybe not (totally) objective.

Well, you're assuming it's stillborn, it's carving out a new FF for itself, it's not trying to compete head-on with the one Apple started & Google/Others emulated.
It's too early to say it's completely dead, as a device (not a platform/strategy) it's a rather nice one, irrespective of one's religious beliefs or tribal groups etc.

i don't care about m@ke$$h!t, surface or stinking to heaven's guts, but the allusion to Bllamer's losing his job was obvious enough, wasn't it?

It was time for him to go, he made one too many big missteps...
But he also laid much (not all) of the framework for the evolution we see now, so his legacy (to some extent) lives on.

misterc

2014-07-23, 09:20

You really seem to have some kind of blind hate for MS, that's odd, personally, I like to use/try anything & everything, no ideologies.
i'm running vista2 in a vm (-¦ on a 3.7.10-1.36-desktop ¦-) because it's the only OS that supports the USB3 ports of my lappy, at least out of the box
thus my "stinking to heaven's guts" reference.

and i may actually get myself a Lumia Pureview w/ my contract renewal (after getting a 808 two yrs ago), mostly for the better low light performances
know i'm going to hate it (for everything else) and only use it as a camera, but... technology is our passion, right :D :cool: :rolleyes:

I want a future where there's a healthy mixture of ALL types of sw, proprietary/closed* & F/OSS, not purely one or the other...[...]
because i need a couple Android apps and the Sailfishes' Android performances are simply not (yet?) up to par i finally got myself a Moto Photon Q a few wks ago.
with Cyanogenmod (and a SIM-mod)
still hate Android

in fact all i want is... a "pocket computer running on Linux".
not sure i'll be able to afford a Neo900
plus i don't really care about the CSSU mess, thus probably won't run Fremantle "out of the box", thus probably not going to pursue this avenue, neither.
and my "desktop" is fine, thanks, running.... KDE 3.5.10 "Release 266" :eek: :D
sorry, old fashioned :cool: ¦-)
but as i already mentioned, recent kernel, Qt4 & all that

I don't see how it could be taken any other way, anyway, apology accepted...[...]

fanboy (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fanboy)
A passionate fan of various elements of geek culture (e.g. sci-fi, comics, Star Wars, video games, anime, hobbits, Magic: the Gathering, etc.), but who lets his passion override social graces.
take it as an insult if you have to...
i didn't say you were a troll (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll) now, did i?
even though our in house troll made an appearance...

jalyst

2014-07-23, 09:22

Yes, I think this discussion has run it's useful course.
Lets clear the stage for others...

ni9gro

2014-08-28, 20:28

Not just yet.

Dave999

2014-08-29, 15:41

http://360.here.com/2014/08/29/here-samsung-galaxy-android/

Here maps for Galaxy phones...great news

fos4

2014-08-30, 07:53

Maybe someone knows something about Here Maps for Galaxy tabs?

Kangal

2014-09-20, 11:32

How much has Nokia influenced the world in the past? Plenty.
How much were they worth? Plenty.
But how much were they bought for? $7 B

@_@
http://online.wsj.com/articles/microsoft-agrees-to-acquire-creator-of-minecraft-1410786190

Microsoft buys Minecraft for $2.5 B
Microsoft believes they're worth almost as much as Nokia.
Microsoft believes Minecraft has affected history as much as Nokia has.

:\

Dave999

2014-09-20, 13:23

jalyst

2014-09-20, 15:10

Haven't read it (not interested) but may be of interest to others...
http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/19/microsoft-buying-minecraft-explanation/

endsormeans

2014-09-20, 15:31

Yeah...there is a great amorphous money and power element at play with minecraft..that isn't really calculated that is much different than the Nokia purchase (which was M$ ability to control not just the platform but devices as well...perhaps they have learned now that this 1990 agressive business acquisition model of buying everything involved in a process from beginning to end doesn't necessarily work today...)..minecrafts purchase is more akin to the purchase of Skype...but far more intelligent a purchase...the fact it is popular across many devices...apple ....android...the fact the revenues go beyond the game itself...t-shirts and other real ..physical merchandise ....
For the biopsic dissective study alone...it is a most brilliant purchase.