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2015-01-27
, 09:35
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Posts: 343 |
Thanked: 819 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ Paris, France
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#32
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The only thing I can think for not having Jolla to work on that (easy?) fix is that they probably need to make some field tests and see if it really works on all supported countries with all network providers. It may work differently in some case?!
anyway thanks for that
anyway thanks for that
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2015-01-27
, 10:25
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Posts: 6,445 |
Thanked: 20,981 times |
Joined on Sep 2012
@ UK
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#33
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I think the real reason is as Zeta said. They have not even looked at that. So they never even got to the point of assessing whether it is a 5 minutes fix or a 5 months one.
Now, I do not blame them for that. They have a lot on their plate and they have to prioritize. Not knowing how difficult the fix is, I would also prefer them focusing on more burning issues such as the forced random app closing.
However, there is a big twist in the tale. Zeta has investigated the issue and provided a solution. That suddenly changes the game. It is no longer a case of "5 minutes or 5 months, we don't know". The task complexity has become known. I am not suggesting that they should drop everything and do this right now, but I agree with Zeta: the lack of any sensible response is unacceptable.
I work for a small software company. I could not imagine the PR disaster if one of our customers found a solution to a problem that has been on our backlog for a year and we would not even say thank you, we will test it and include it in our next release. And by the way, here is a bunch of flowers for your wife as an expression of our gratitude.
Now, I do not blame them for that. They have a lot on their plate and they have to prioritize. Not knowing how difficult the fix is, I would also prefer them focusing on more burning issues such as the forced random app closing.
However, there is a big twist in the tale. Zeta has investigated the issue and provided a solution. That suddenly changes the game. It is no longer a case of "5 minutes or 5 months, we don't know". The task complexity has become known. I am not suggesting that they should drop everything and do this right now, but I agree with Zeta: the lack of any sensible response is unacceptable.
I work for a small software company. I could not imagine the PR disaster if one of our customers found a solution to a problem that has been on our backlog for a year and we would not even say thank you, we will test it and include it in our next release. And by the way, here is a bunch of flowers for your wife as an expression of our gratitude.
__________________
Русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!
Русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!
| The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to pichlo For This Useful Post: | ||
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2015-01-27
, 12:26
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Posts: 752 |
Thanked: 2,808 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Czech Republic
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#34
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Originally Posted by Zeta
Yes you do. At least all service providers I've ever used would send me an SMS once I was back online, saying "You have a missed call from XXX-XXX-XXX from 27.01. 2015 13:25. Please, call them back. Have a nice day.". And what's better, the service provider makes it seem like it was sent by the other person (will appear under their name), so calling/texting them is just a step away.
It is especially useful for mobile phones, as we don't always have the network (in subway, in old buildings with thick walls, in countryside/mountain). In those cases, you don't have a notification of missed call.
That is the reason why I don't use voicemail and also why I hate when the person I'm calling does have it.
If I am unavailable, why should the other party pay for it? It is my problem, so I call back once I'm back online.
I'm not saying people shouldn't use it (I wish they wouldn't, though), but I don't see the use in my case.
| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to nodevel For This Useful Post: | ||
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2015-01-27
, 15:14
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Posts: 4,118 |
Thanked: 8,901 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
@ Ruhrgebiet, Germany
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#35
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Originally Posted by Zeta
Just as a side note, even you mentioned TJC,:
...
Jolla didn't answer any of my message with details, except than "We'll check and update TJC if there's any ETA. Thanks for the ping". I hoped they would have answered when I found this patch with something more meaningful about why they cannot do it like this, or that they have added this to some future update. Anything.
I know that this is not the only bug in their list, but it is a part of the basic phone functionality (as in "Nokia 3310 had it"...) and a lot of people complained about it for missing messages and having to call it randomly to check (talk about "smart"...phone) so it is strange they don't react about this.
Jolla, if you read me, let me know how we can help on this ! You ask us to do it together, we are ready...
...
Jolla did/does not see TMO as the platform to discuss/publish such information.
But WE do ...
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SIM-Switcher, automated SIM switching with a Double (Dual) SIM adapter
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SIM-Switcher, automated SIM switching with a Double (Dual) SIM adapter
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Thank you all for voting me into the Community Council 2014-2016!
Please consider your membership / supporting Maemo e.V. and help to spread this by following/copying this link to your TMO signature:
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2015-01-27
, 16:21
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Posts: 6,445 |
Thanked: 20,981 times |
Joined on Sep 2012
@ UK
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#36
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Originally Posted by nodevel
You are lucky
At least all service providers I've ever used would send me an SMS once I was back online, saying "You have a missed call from XXX-XXX-XXX from 27.01. 2015 13:25. Please, call them back. Have a nice day.".
I have seen four different cases, and that is only in my limited experience with the provides I have used personally:
1) You missed a call for whatever reason. The other party left a message. Outcome: the voicemail indicator lights up.
2) You missed a call because you did not hear the phone ringing or rejected the call. The other party did not leave a message. Outcome: nothing, only a missed call indicator on your phone.
3) You missed a call because you were out of range. The other party did not leave a message. Outcome: a friendly SMS from the operator along the lines you mention above.
4) 3) You missed a call because you were out of range. The other party did not leave a message. Outcome: nothing at all. You never know you missed a call.
Please note that in none of the four cases did the operator send me an SMS when the other party has left a message. Cases 3 and 4 depend on the operator. Only one of the four operators I used personally does #3.
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Русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!
Русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!
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2015-01-27
, 19:14
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Posts: 338 |
Thanked: 496 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#37
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I think this bodes terribly for Jolla and the development of Sailfish generally. It gives a glimpse into how haphazard, lackadaisical or generally disorganised or directionless Jolla are, and is completely consistent with much of the rest of their activity (or lack thereof).
The near 6 months between stable updates, because they thought it would be a good idea to implement a new version of Qt without any infrastructure in place to roll things back or forward, or branch development, suggests pretty staggering naivety.
Their communication is generally extremely poor. Only now, 14 months after launch, are we beginning to get very vague 'roadmap' type statements.
Various simple things don't get fixed or hotfixed. Some of them which are allowed to go for months and months. One suspects the reason is "can't be bothered" more than anything.
The most amazing thing to me is that all we know about paid for apps is in April last year they were aiming for an H2 launch, and in early December it was a "priority" but being held up by "technical issues". Clearly they missed their extremely vague H2 window, and what technical issues exactly? There are numerous off the shelf solutions that they could probably implement within days. Are we to believe that they're flailing around trying to code their own secure payments system from the ground up? If so, why? If so, why are they not implementing an off the shelf product as an interim solution? Sailfish has lost enough developers already, none of which it could afford to lose, and given both the tiny size of the ecosystem and the total lack of incentive to develop for it, how will it ever become self sufficient? What if Warehouse / OpenRepos hadn't taken off? Sailfish would be completely dead.
It seems like Jolla have yet to contact Zeta about this. It's pretty saddening and makes it extremely hard to have any optimism about the way the company is run.
Last edited by bluefoot; 2015-01-27 at 19:24.
The near 6 months between stable updates, because they thought it would be a good idea to implement a new version of Qt without any infrastructure in place to roll things back or forward, or branch development, suggests pretty staggering naivety.
Their communication is generally extremely poor. Only now, 14 months after launch, are we beginning to get very vague 'roadmap' type statements.
Various simple things don't get fixed or hotfixed. Some of them which are allowed to go for months and months. One suspects the reason is "can't be bothered" more than anything.
The most amazing thing to me is that all we know about paid for apps is in April last year they were aiming for an H2 launch, and in early December it was a "priority" but being held up by "technical issues". Clearly they missed their extremely vague H2 window, and what technical issues exactly? There are numerous off the shelf solutions that they could probably implement within days. Are we to believe that they're flailing around trying to code their own secure payments system from the ground up? If so, why? If so, why are they not implementing an off the shelf product as an interim solution? Sailfish has lost enough developers already, none of which it could afford to lose, and given both the tiny size of the ecosystem and the total lack of incentive to develop for it, how will it ever become self sufficient? What if Warehouse / OpenRepos hadn't taken off? Sailfish would be completely dead.
It seems like Jolla have yet to contact Zeta about this. It's pretty saddening and makes it extremely hard to have any optimism about the way the company is run.
Last edited by bluefoot; 2015-01-27 at 19:24.
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2015-01-27
, 19:20
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Posts: 339 |
Thanked: 1,623 times |
Joined on Oct 2013
@ France
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#38
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Originally Posted by nodevel
You missed completely the problem here.
Yes you do. At least all service providers I've ever used would send me an SMS once I was back online, saying "You have a missed call from XXX-XXX-XXX from 27.01. 2015 13:25. Please, call them back. Have a nice day.". And what's better, the service provider makes it seem like it was sent by the other person (will appear under their name), so calling/texting them is just a step away.
That is the reason why I don't use voicemail and also why I hate when the person I'm calling does have it.
If I am unavailable, why should the other party pay for it? It is my problem, so I call back once I'm back online.
I'm not saying people shouldn't use it (I wish they wouldn't, though), but I don't see the use in my case.
My phone provider sends those messages (just checked with another SIM card from them in my Android phone).
My Jolla phone doesn't display them !!!!!
This SIM card was previously in my N8 which displayed them correctly (both missed calls and voicemails when you come back in the network).
So then 2 problems can arise:
* someone called and didn't leave a message. I will never know it, but if it was important they would have left a message.
* someone called and left a message. That was surely important ! Jolla doesn't display it, so here comes this patch that at least says "you should check your voicemail, there is something here, but I don't know from who".
| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Zeta For This Useful Post: | ||
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2015-01-27
, 19:27
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Posts: 338 |
Thanked: 496 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#39
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@Zeta
There's also the issue that with a lot of networks that do provide SMS notification still (some don't), you have to manually enable it from your account with them (O2 are a major example). So if you're abroad or using an unfamilar or new network / SIM card, you may either not realise you have to enable it or are prevented from doing so due to language barrier.
The fact there's no warning about lack of enhanced notification and the bugs / need to provider enable sms notifications in the phone's settings is awful.
The message is clearly that Jolla would rather people suffer inconvenience and miss potentially important voicemails than either acknowledging or fixing the problem.
There's also the issue that with a lot of networks that do provide SMS notification still (some don't), you have to manually enable it from your account with them (O2 are a major example). So if you're abroad or using an unfamilar or new network / SIM card, you may either not realise you have to enable it or are prevented from doing so due to language barrier.
The fact there's no warning about lack of enhanced notification and the bugs / need to provider enable sms notifications in the phone's settings is awful.
The message is clearly that Jolla would rather people suffer inconvenience and miss potentially important voicemails than either acknowledging or fixing the problem.
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2015-01-27
, 19:36
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Posts: 339 |
Thanked: 1,623 times |
Joined on Oct 2013
@ France
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#40
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Originally Posted by peterleinchen
I know. That's why there is a one year running TJC thread, plus several pings on Twitter.
Just as a side note, even you mentioned TJC,:
Jolla did/does not see TMO as the platform to discuss/publish such information.
But WE do ...
This sentence from me there directed to Jolla was only dictated by despair
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It is especially useful for mobile phones, as we don't always have the network (in subway, in old buildings with thick walls, in countryside/mountain). In those cases, you don't have a notification of missed call. But the guy could have left a message, something that can be important and you won't miss (job, flat...).
Your friends calling from mobile phone can leave you an SMS or reach you through some other service, but when a company wants to hire you calling from a landline phone (no sms!), and need to talk with you as soon as possible, you are thankful when the phone tells you they called and left a voicemail when going out of the subway !
Jolla didn't answer any of my message with details, except than "We'll check and update TJC if there's any ETA. Thanks for the ping". I hoped they would have answered when I found this patch with something more meaningful about why they cannot do it like this, or that they have added this to some future update. Anything.
I know that this is not the only bug in their list, but it is a part of the basic phone functionality (as in "Nokia 3310 had it"...) and a lot of people complained about it for missing messages and having to call it randomly to check (talk about "smart"...phone) so it is strange they don't react about this.
Jolla, if you read me, let me know how we can help on this ! You ask us to do it together, we are ready...
In the mean time, thanks to the help from the community (patch-manager, ideas and tips on IRC, tests on other operators...) at least we have something that works.