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2012-04-04
, 03:53
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Posts: 5,028 |
Thanked: 8,613 times |
Joined on Mar 2011
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#52
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qgil, could You please answer to freemangordon's post?
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=39
Maybe it's just me, but I wasn't able to filter out direct answer to precisely formed questions in Your few last posts. No offense here - as I've said, it may be just me. If You feel that You've already answered it, please, pair quotes of question-answer here.
I'm "pushing" You to give direct answers, as it seems, that those are real problems Community is facing (to the point, that it was slowing development of actual code considerably, more than once), more than "is Nokia going to try convince Maemo users to invlve in new devices projects, or not".
Maemo users got they own mind and will do what they feel fancy no matter of our or Nokia's ideas - they real problems we're facing, is everyday collaboration between coders, testers and users, where technical problems (or problems with reaching people responsible for maintaining infrastructure) are true roadblocks, much more important than company politics or whatsnot - at least, from my point of view.
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This raise another question - You've said that, despite Nemein being paid by Nokia, they don't answer to Nokia. So, who they answer to, i.e. who should be contacted, if Maemo Community (or their representatives) aren't satisfied by cooperation with Nemein? To be honest, whole last Council's cadence is literally struggling to get technical support, with 1 (literally, one) situation when it succeed... After 5 blazing months, and just for a while. There was even a Joke, that whole Council + KP developers + CSSU developers landed in X-Fade's contact blacklist.
/Estel
// Edit
Again, please don't take my words as offensive. I'm not regularly sugar-coating my posts, as it isn't my way of writing, which doesn't matter I'm seeking argues or doesn't want to cooperate (as Council member or not) with You, when You declare will to collaborate with us.
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=39
Maybe it's just me, but I wasn't able to filter out direct answer to precisely formed questions in Your few last posts. No offense here - as I've said, it may be just me. If You feel that You've already answered it, please, pair quotes of question-answer here.
I'm "pushing" You to give direct answers, as it seems, that those are real problems Community is facing (to the point, that it was slowing development of actual code considerably, more than once), more than "is Nokia going to try convince Maemo users to invlve in new devices projects, or not".
Maemo users got they own mind and will do what they feel fancy no matter of our or Nokia's ideas - they real problems we're facing, is everyday collaboration between coders, testers and users, where technical problems (or problems with reaching people responsible for maintaining infrastructure) are true roadblocks, much more important than company politics or whatsnot - at least, from my point of view.
---
This raise another question - You've said that, despite Nemein being paid by Nokia, they don't answer to Nokia. So, who they answer to, i.e. who should be contacted, if Maemo Community (or their representatives) aren't satisfied by cooperation with Nemein? To be honest, whole last Council's cadence is literally struggling to get technical support, with 1 (literally, one) situation when it succeed... After 5 blazing months, and just for a while. There was even a Joke, that whole Council + KP developers + CSSU developers landed in X-Fade's contact blacklist.
/Estel
// Edit
Again, please don't take my words as offensive. I'm not regularly sugar-coating my posts, as it isn't my way of writing, which doesn't matter I'm seeking argues or doesn't want to cooperate (as Council member or not) with You, when You declare will to collaborate with us.
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N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
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N900's HDMI-Out
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Measure battery's real capacity on-device
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Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
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2012-04-04
, 05:50
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Posts: 415 |
Thanked: 732 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Finland
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#53
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Originally Posted by Estel
How about making the questions a thread of their own. Not really on topic in a council election thread. While creating the new thread please provide the needed background information to the 1st post. Things like the actual problems, their impact, etc. and not refererring them just as something like "the kernel power problem". For example I don't follow kernel power discussions because I'm not interested in it but would be interested in reading a summary of the problems.
qgil, could You please answer to freemangordon's post?
Anyway. Nice to see council elections getting this much interest and as a byproduct causing some interesting discussions.
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2012-04-04
, 05:53
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#54
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Originally Posted by freemangordon
I haven't followed directly any maemo.org topic since a long time ago. I don't know the details of any of the topics you mention. No need to rely on the Council for an update, just share the links that matter and let's continue the discussion where it makes sense.
Well, you say you are the Council contact from now on, along with being community member. Would you please answer if you are familiar with the current problems regarding the state of maemo repositories, the state of Fremantle CSSU, etc. I am asking, because if you are not, I would ask the Council to enlighten you ASAP, and if you are, would you throw some light on what you plan to do to. kernel-power problem is an example. Single maintainer for CSSU repositories hosted on maemo.org is another.
On the side note - my understanding is (according from your last activities on TMO of course), that Fremantle is no longer considered to be something valuable so everyone should switch to Harmattan, Tizen, Nemo, whatever new shiny technology is out there (or not). Is that correct, or you think Fremantle could live in the years to come if given the appropriate support from the community. But please, don't take my question as being offensive, it think it is really important to be known whether the Nokia contact with Maemo Community and especially the part who owns n900 and does not plan a switch until the lady falls apart, cares about the only OS which is fully functional and problem free (almost) so far on n900.
About the software itself, what was relevant in the Hildon Application Framework has been integrated (quite recently, but finally) in GTK+ upstream thanks to an effort done by the GNOME Foundation and Igalia funded by Nokia a long time ago. Working with almost anything underneath must be hard, and I reckon the great merit and stubbornness of the CSSU project and its users.
To put all this in context, I like software, I like innovation and since I joined Nokia I'm being paid to help pushing the bleeding edge to the first wave of developers and users willing to get a taste of it. For instance, today/yesterday I was happy after being able to conclude what has been on of my main tasks of the past weeks: the Qt 5 Alpha release notes. Another project I'm helping out is Qt 5 on the Raspberry Pi.
This doesn't mean that I have any problem with users and developers interested primarily in Fremantle or any other previous release. It's a matter of focus, and I tend to focus in pushing unstable / testing software to final quality. Then take a rest and jump to a next cycle.
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2012-04-04
, 06:47
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Posts: 1,397 |
Thanked: 2,126 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Dublin, Ireland
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#55
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Quim, please could you answer to my previous post regarding the Testing and Promotion problems. I have already provided the related links to mailing list and TMO thread where you could answer directly if you don't want to pollute this thread.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
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2012-04-04
, 06:48
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#56
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Originally Posted by qgil
That's an odd way to describe it. I would have said that some (not all) of the features of Hildon (widgets, mostly it seemed) were attempted to be imitated in GTK+. While any $50K grant for OSS is nice, it didn't help folks here much. Pushing upstream is good, but it has to be the right stream. Gnome is not really good fit for mobile. If the new software resulting from that grant has been put to use in a tablet, much less a handset with mobile OS, we haven't seen it. We have tried to bolt Hildon on top of MeeGo and then Mer, in a project named Cordia, but it is proving hard to do.
what was relevant in the Hildon Application Framework has been integrated (quite recently, but finally) in GTK+ upstream thanks to an effort done by the GNOME Foundation and Igalia funded by Nokia a long time ago. Working with almost anything underneath must be hard, and I reckon the great merit and stubbornness of the CSSU project and its users.
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2012-04-04
, 07:20
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Posts: 569 |
Thanked: 462 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
@ USA
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#57
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Originally Posted by qgil
That's saying "Let's discuss this election without getting sidetracked into the issues of the election."
This thread is about the Council election, if you want to discuss other community topics please use own threads in the Community forum.
The whole issue of discussion related to council elections were the issues related to maemo & how the nominees profess to address them. "Just remain calm & inert" is what eviscerated the community by Nokia's "demolition by neglect" of maemo.org.
Massive problems with the repositories & testing methodologies are active destructive forces that Nokia seems intent on letting proceed. What the motivation of Nokia, of which qgil is a representative & spokesman, may be can only be speculated upon, but the result has certainly been faster abandonment of interest in the platform.
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2012-04-04
, 08:15
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#58
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Originally Posted by rotoflex
What has Nokia to do with anything of this? WE (as in, the previous councils) are the ones who created most of that. (As a concrete example, I was the one who decided to set up the updated debian squeeze toolchain on the fremantle autobuilder).
Massive problems with the repositories & testing methodologies are active destructive forces that Nokia seems intent on letting proceed. What the motivation of Nokia, of which qgil is a representative & spokesman, may be can only be speculated upon, but the result has certainly been faster abandonment of interest in the platform.
Make the criticisms concrete, put the blame were it belongs, and propose a solution.
Otherwise it seems to me that it could "all" be solved by putting some whitelisted webdav folder where a few people could upload whatever they feel to upload today; and yet, I don't think it is as simple as that.
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2012-04-04
, 12:46
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Posts: 3,328 |
Thanked: 4,476 times |
Joined on May 2011
@ Poland
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#59
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I don't know if I'd be a good person for it but if it's possible I'd like to try. I hate what Nokia makes to Maemo/Meego and I'd like to resist
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2012-04-04
, 13:00
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Posts: 2,535 |
Thanked: 6,681 times |
Joined on Mar 2008
@ UK
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#60
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Originally Posted by javispedro
Thank you. And not just the councils, but the community as a whole. However the "problems" are enumerated by shibboleths ("the kernel power problem" means bug #12284 AFAIK) or discussed in open (but not widely read) locations like the testingsquad mailing list. These defined set of problems hasn't been escalated to maemo-community, AFAIK; nor has the Council made an official blog post saying "we're trying to do X for you, but sorry - we can't because...".
What has Nokia to do with anything of this? WE (as in, the previous councils) are the ones who created most of that.
Make the criticisms concrete, put the blame were it belongs, and propose a solution.
Which leads on to...
Originally Posted by marmistrz
Sorry marmistrz, you're right - you wouldn't make a good person for it. As qgil says this is a role which requires you to represent the community and deal with Nokia. This kind of trolling, without any thinking through of the consequences, is short-sighted and foolish. For one, if the Council says to Nokia - "no, we don't want your assistance anymore" that basically boils down to us enacting the doomsday scenario of an instant switch-off; which wouldn't otherwise happen. That's the definition of shooting oneself in the foot!
I don't know if I'd be a good person for it but if it's possible I'd like to try. I hate what Nokia makes to Maemo/Meego and I'd like to resist
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