freemangordon, let me help you, here is simple answer to kernel-related questions (people, please read my whole post, not only first paragraph and don't ask questions which are answered in following paragraphs):

To whoever asks about kernel: after update to css-thumb, current version of kernel power 50 will not work, will be uninstalled and can never be installed again without damaging system on n900.

If you install cssu-thumb now when it is in highly experimental and unstable state, the ONLY kernel which will work is kernel-cssu. It will break all packages depending on kernel power.

If you cannot understand this, but have at least a bit of computer knowledge, I can try to explane it to you this way: imagine this update is like updating Windows 98 to Windows 7 64bit - there is a lot of integral operating system parts compiled for these newer kernel and this new parts of software require this new kernel to run. If you flash older kernel (kernel power 50) and reboot, it would be like trying to run recent software (e.g. MS Office 2010) on old Windows 98 - it will crash really badly.

If you want to install cssu thumb safely, wait for it to become stable, now IT IS NOT SAFE, it can crash at any time without any reason visible to end-user (so if you're not a programmer, you probably shouldn't use that).

If you want to install cssu thumb without reboot loop, you have to forget about kernel power existance, just stick with the kernel installed with this update.

Did I make it at least a bit clearer to any of you with questions?

It is so frustrating to see this same mistake repeatedly after it has been explained several times already. I hope users read and understand misiak's message above.

On the general issue of toggling. It occurred to me that someone could create different pages for the programs now all massed together in one sea of icons, and one could then click on a toggle item and jump to the Utilities icons or Media icons, just as one could with the multiple View pages on the N900, right? Is anyone working on that sort of thing?

@XeonDead
HAM is more than just an apt GUI, it was built to deal with SSU, I'm not sure FAM was:
http://blogs.igalia.com/vjaquez/tag/maemo/ (scroll down to the good bits).

see also this
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=35136

or use this
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=636724

EDIT: As Android_808 wisely stated, you have to be ultra careful when installing/removing things after tampering with dependencies. You'd better remove your modified package if the thumb compiled/compatible package ever comes along

Not exactly. HAM is built in a way to deal with system updates too = it disables many things *after* downloading packages, then install update, and re-enable things again.

You can achieve similar thing with FAP'man by enabling offline mode *** soon as last item is downloaded, and it starts to install first one - yet, it's more risky, and shouldn't be touched by people that don't know the risk.

Up till now, there was no single thing, that would be harmed by correct FAM update. But, consider fact, that *any* situation, when something getting updated would need to be disabled first, and it's not disabled via off-line mode, will made You - essentially - screwed.

/Estel

@Estel

It's just hands. Linux user hands.
There are three ways to upgrade system: HAM, FAM, xterm, but result depends on user.

qwazix: i just came here to post the same thing. might be worth remindingm everyone when an equivalent package comes along for thumb kernel to make sure they remove it to avoid conflicts.

Guys, it could be some placebo effect, but I have the feeling that my battery lasts several more hours (250-805, SR VDD1 on, VDD2 on, no change here). Any comments?

You don't get it do you?

CSSU THUMB comes with its own kernel, which is KP50 with the necessary patches to make it able to run thumb2-compiled code without crashing.

Meaning (in simple words): it's EITHER cssu-thumb OR kp50. Not both.

I understand that you have problems that somehow "require" kp50, even if kp50 is actually "included" in the cssu-thumb kernel.

Well, say thanks to the brainfvcked debian package system. We have to live with it though.

Now, if e.g. CLEVEN says it needs kp50 no-matter-what then go to the cleven developer and tell him to relax the requirements (I don't know what's worse, the debian package system or the debian package authors, probably an entangled combination of both).

Anyway, to make it short: if you want to EXPERIMENT with cssu-thumb then I'd suggest to stick to it, and ignore any other programs that may not work with it. If you want a "functioning" system (by whatever definition of function you may have, e.g. "cleven must work") then please don't experiment anymore with cssu-thumb until it stops being an experiment. Then (hopefully) the various kernel-maintainers and the various-I-depend-on-this-kernel-package-maintainers will get together and think of a system to make this work nicely (e.g. "provides: thumb2, overclocking, etc.").

Add.: didn't notice @misiak's post above (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=241). Read that too, twice.