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Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-26, 21:46
I know it's early, but it's fun to dream, isn't it?

Here's the mighty question. What features would realistically you like to see in the N900 -- stage 4 of Nokia's 5 stage plan. Perhaps, Nokia will take some of our brainstorming seriously, and consider implementing some of them as features!

I'll start.

I'd really like to see wireless charging for the N900. Electrical induction has been known since the mid-1800. We have toothbrushes and razors that can charge themselves free of wires, but this technology eludes more sophisticated electronics. I'd like for my N900 to wirelessly charge itself whilst in my jacket pocket in a house, a cafe, or an office, car, or wherever wireless power transmitters can be found. I would like to say goodbye to the socket for good.

Science fiction? Not really, the technology is based on the same basic principles that allow WiFi (and MANY other technologies) to work. In fact, take a gander at the PowerCast Corporation, that is looking to mass produce the technology: powercastco.com (http://powercastco.com). Here's an article at laptopmag.com (http://www.laptopmag.com/features/Mobile-Maverick-Awards-2007?page=4) talking about the technology.

Failing this, I would like a battery that has the receiver built into it, so that I at least have the option of adding it into the N900 at a later date, or upgrading it if power transmissions standards suddenly change.

An always on tablet would be a KILLER feature.

I can see Apple releasing a feature like this in their next PDA (the upcoming newton) and being heralded for another "first". :rolleyes:

What is your idea for the perfect tablet?


}:^)~
YARR!!

<captian>Corrupt</captain>

ColdFusion
2007-10-26, 21:54
stage 4 is n8** with WiMax.

brendan
2007-10-26, 22:01
the ability to change cellular providers, and not be locked into Sprint. They have the worst coverage in my area, albeit some of the fastest data connections.

if the next gen device has WiMax, which is not 4G but really 3G, i would like to be able to get my cell service through my current provider and not a lock-in deal with Sprint.

maybe a 2-4 MegaPixel camera with zoom, flash and video capture as well.

a better, more power efficient bluetooth adapter with A2DP support.

both SD cards on the n800 have to included in the next device as well.

a wireless card that supports packet injection.

and of course more memory and CPU

cairn
2007-10-26, 22:09
If they add inductive charging, I really really hope they keep the wired charger! Inductive charging is much slower and less efficient than just plugging the thing in.

I'd much prefer to have the option of charging through USB (without an adapter) and a higher capacity battery.

penguinbait
2007-10-26, 22:17
600mhz CPU + KDE I did not have to compile myself, other than that I like th 810 form from the pics... Although I have not held one myself.

GeneralAntilles
2007-10-26, 22:19
Realistically?

TI OMAP 3440 core with working OpenGL drivers
CPU in the 800MHz range.
Color bump on the LCD
Similar or better battery life
Doubled RAM/Flash
Dual SD-card slots
Wifi/Bluetooth but no stupid cellular radio of any sort
Ambidextrous button layout (twice the buttons, twice the fun!)
No slider.


Realistic, but unlikely?

Resolution bump on the LCD to ~1024x600
Accelerometer-based screen rotation
Multitouch
h.264 hardware video decoding
Video-out of some kind
Improved battery life


Not. Gonna. Happen.

Internal flash/HD storage exceeding 60GB without any size or battery-life penalty
Non-crappy built-in GPS chipset
Completely open source OS

maxinflixion
2007-10-26, 22:33
Unlocked Cellular
Beefed up Specs on Processor/RAM
Solid Video Capability (even if it is in ONE clearly defined format)
Bring the hard cover back
Full USB Host Capabality
At Least 20gb onboard storage
USB Headset or separate mic/headphone jack support (nothing proprietary)

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-26, 22:36
@cairn

I completely agree. Until wireless power is fast and ubiquitous, there should be more traditional methods. Charging through the micro-USB would be great, and likely free up some internal room -- valuable room that could be used for an infrared LED!!

In fact, while you're at it, a simple micro-USB to headphone adapter would also be nice to get rid of the headphone jack -- but ONLY under the condition that it supports HiFi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hifi) output through the adapter. A major benefit here, is it can be engineered to easily physically disconnect if it is forced/pulled too hard. This is a big deal for me as I've had MANY 3.5" wear over time from heavy use, that are not easily fixed. Having to live with mono out of a stereo port isn't fun and I imagine would be less fun after spending $500+ on a device.

The obvious con to this scenario, is only having one wire connected at a given time. Of course, with two micro-USBs, you get increased functionality while maintaining multiple connections.

So it's settled: inductive charging and 2 micro SDs [*edit* USB's] (charging, mic, etc). :D


}:^)~
YARR!!

Capt'n Corrupt | tpurroC n'tpaC

ColdFusion
2007-10-26, 22:43
You mean 2 micro USB, please no micro SDs ;)

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-26, 22:46
Haha... Yes, ColdFusion, that's what I mean!


}:^)~
YARR!!

CaPt'N cOrRuPt

benny1967
2007-10-26, 22:48
I'd want the development to continue along the N800-line (instead of N810), perhaps including a N910 spinoff again. This means I'd prefer the N900 not to include too many hardware features but rely on bluetooth accessories. It also means that storage capacity should go up again.

The fundamental design is really great the way it is. I'd of course expect more horsepower from a new device, but else? Maybe a better camera so it can at least compete with what my cell phone has (2Mpix). I do a lot of mobile blogging, and moving pix from any external device to the tablet is an unnecessary step. So the cam should just about be good enough for some pictures to add to my blog.

Of course, the hard cover is a must. Speaking of it, I'd expect the N900 to be sturdy, robust, a real 'on the go' device that you take out in the rain, in a sandstorm and whatever else you find yourself in.

The idea of accelerometer-based screen rotation is nice. I think I'd use it a lot when surfing: I spend a lot of my time on text-only sites and text is so much easier to read on a narrow but tall screen.

Some details... Get rid of this mysterious design issue with the video bandwidth and such. Don't use hardware components that require proprietary drivers.

Everything else is software, I'd say. New codecs (OGG Vorbis and Theora!), A2DP, Java, syncing contacts and calendars, whatever we miss... its software.

Mhm... seems I dont really have a long list, do I? Maybe the tablets are right just the way they are.

vvaz
2007-10-26, 23:00
- accelerometers + full support for it (auto-rotating and usable interface in portrait mode)
- big comeback of FM radio
- ogg, flac support
- more CPU, RAM and internal memory (with big enough internal disk additional card slot won't be necessary)
- better layout of keyboard and buttons (assymetry of slider is worrying me)
- second camera for taking photos (with smart optics you can use only one matrix)
- OpenGL support
- charging through micro-USB
- real USB host mode
- bigger screen without increasing of form factor or keep resolution but shrink size further (get rid of D-pad completely? see keyboard layout)
- WiMax
- good PIM, Office suite (preferably Kontact and KOffice :)

omegaone37
2007-10-26, 23:45
Seeing as how we are in a "dream" state, I'll add my wishes...

1. I'd like to see a "pop-up" vanity mirror for when we do video chat we can make sure we look good! (Ustream here we come!) :p

2. An expresso coffee unit either as a USB attachment or built-in so ThoughtFix and I can get our coffee fixes. ;)

3. Software to interact with my truck this winter to be able to start the engine from the comfort of my bed... and have it warmed up by the time I'm ready to go. :rolleyes:

4. A built-in help system that has instructions on playing Bejeweled (or whatever the heck its called).

... just to name a few. I have more, just ask. :)

Regards...

Omega :cool:

convulted
2007-10-27, 00:11
A set (say, six or so) of legs so that i can whistle to my tablet and it comes walking to me.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-27, 00:36
Yes WiMAX! Time for a little speculation....

As soon as WiMAX is widespread, it's going to open the floodgates for VoIP providers. They will be able to compete with cell carriers with EXTREMELY low rates, often offering free calling between an increasing numbers of VoIPers. The extra consumer money will be re-routed back into various "WiMAX access plans" with bandwidth caps for the corporations lucky enough to provide coverage. This will keep the end consumer prices at a slow steady (though inevitable) decline, as they scramble to determine new ways to make money with zany service schemes.

Google will offer the gPhone as a free method of calling with ads and be heralded as "internet geniuses" though the device will be primitive (but low cost) and green. Apple will announce an iPhone with WiMAX, free calling, and flash 10 browser support to an adorning crowd. Microsoft will scramble to make a crappy knock-off product featuring SilverLight under the guise of originality... The irony..

The N900 will rule them all in terms of quality with a mature software library, mature hardware, and all the features one could want.

The bandwidth race will begin as information transfer (especially between users) demands grow exponentially. The convergence of all information (Video/hyper-text/Audio) will be beamed into the pockets and homes of all patrons.

The N900 will be the first pocketable device to support them all, plus have the horsepower to handle advanced features such as voice recognition, accelerated 3D games, grid computing, etc.

WiFi will still exist as a free alternative to costly WiMAX coverage, and will be increasingly available in buildings.


}:^)~
YARR!!

GPS Mapt'n

iball
2007-10-27, 00:48
Wi-fi and US-wide Wi-Max. Which mean the N900 might never materialize.
Sprint is still rolling out wi-max though, so there's hope.

johnkzin
2007-10-27, 01:09
1) tilt screen instead of a kick-stand

2) screen slides only (not the whole face)

3) 2 dpads, centered vertically left and right. Prefs would choose 1 to be an actual dpad, and the other to be a button cluster (up=zoom in, down=zoom out, left= escape/back, right = home, center=menu).

4) microUSB client with charging, mircoUSB-OTG

5) microSD card (2 would be nice)

6) micro-DVI video out (with DVI-A support)

7) Bluetooth PAN (and retain Bluetooth DUN)

8) Ability to control a cell phone via bluetooth (tablet acts as a hands-free device, displaying caller-id, accepting or rejecting calls, initiating calls from its contacts list)

9) Full support for integrating with bluetooth hard drives (Seagate DAVE and Agere BluOnyx)

10) picture cam on the back (don't care either way about the chat cam) with better resolution/quality than the chat cam; bonus if it'll do video as well as stills

11) SIP phone client

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-27, 01:26
2) screen slides only (not the whole face)

I wouldn't be surprised if soon the screen *was* the face. It's only a matter of time, before the resolution and the screen size increases, though I hope that the unit doesn't get any larger.

3) 2 dpads, centered vertically left and right. Prefs would choose 1 to be an actual dpad, and the other to be a button cluster (up=zoom in, down=zoom out, left= escape/back, right = home, center=menu).

While we're at it, put a small trackball, nub, or analog DPAD as a substitute for the existing DPAD. It woud be nice to be able to use this rig as a gaming unit for those that choose it, plus have a completely new (but still intuitive) input method, with exciting possibilities. A trackball would likely be the most space effective and versatile.



9) Full support for integrating with bluetooth hard drives (Seagate DAVE and Agere BluOnyx)

11) SIP phone client

These are great features that are already present! The DAVE drive may not be out, but the N810 will be able to connect to it through Bluetooth, or 802.11g. The GizmoPhone, or RTCOMM are sip clients ensuring hours of free (or low cost) calling!


}:^)~
YARR!!

The Captinator

iball
2007-10-27, 02:04
A SIP client that works through a VPN tunnel would be nice.
That's NOT present on any Internet Tablet at the moment and even OS2008 won't have it from what's been said in the bugzilla report on it.
Some of us work at places where the Asterisk servers are behind Cisco PIX firewalls and would like to be able to have a "work phone" anywhere there's wi-fi.

prosthetic
2007-10-27, 02:32
Seeing as how we are in a "dream" state, I'll add my wishes...

1. I'd like to see a "pop-up" vanity mirror for when we do video chat we can make sure we look good! (Ustream here we come!) :p


Vanity camera already supported in most video chat applications. What you want is automatic photoshop touchups to make you look better.

prosthetic
2007-10-27, 02:48
I'm a little too close to this device to provide any real feedback, from the Nokia perspective, but I do have a few comments:

- Someone mentioned full phone proxy capability via bluetooth.
- Should include SMS and MMS minimum
- If we have to carry around a phone, keep it in your pocket/purse
- The form factor is great, as it is. Only, increase the pixel density.
- Improved tactile feedback on the hardware keyboard.
- More room on the hardware keyboard for those of us with fat fingers.
- Video recording. Hey, why not?
- Complete interface restructuring.
- Take pictures. Again, why not?
- Built in web server to serve aforementioned photos automatically.
- Better CPU and hardware decoders.

redbones
2007-10-27, 02:48
a bigass™ battery would be nice. one that could go around 12 hours with wifi and gps running.

ragnar
2007-10-27, 09:21
Hi, if I can add to the conversation, I'd personally suggest to also write on the lines of "What would I like to be able to do with the tablet", instead of only purely technical lists of MOAR processing power, ram, sd slots, capacity, file formats, tilts and whatnots.

At the end of the day, technological progress will of course go on, as it always has. If a particular device has a 400mhz chip or a certain amount of ram of whatever, of course these numbers will increase in the future. But once the number goes to ... whatever the numbers then go to, then someone will request a larger number.

A request like "more hard keys" is imho a bit pointless - it all depends on what you would want to do with the device. For some use cases then the way to achieve it would be to add hard keys or whatever, and for other to remove even the ones that the device currently has. Perhaps you have already thought of these real use cases in your mind, but it would be great if you would not skip those when heading straight for the technical details. :)

(This is not to say that the technical details aren't also important, but at least I'd like to see what use cases you would want to _enable_ by adding those technicalities.)

Jobester
2007-10-27, 09:47
er, a version that's a small touchscreen internet tablet (similar to the N810) that reveals a button layout so you can game like it's a Nintendo DS (I haven't used a DS). Keep the camera, etc. and keep it so fbreader is just as convenient to use. I don't know if that's realistic because I can't think of how to pull it off well
I mainly would like to see convenient to carry around in regular pocket (or belt loop or anyhow?) and designed to be usable for 3+ years to get the most value I realistically can
Right now the N800 is inbetween cargo pocket vs regular pocket, go one way or the other ;)

kotzkind
2007-10-27, 11:15
These are great features that are already present! The DAVE drive may not be out, but the N810 will be able to connect to it through Bluetooth, or 802.11g. The GizmoPhone, or RTCOMM are sip clients ensuring hours of free (or low cost) calling!



I need a reak SIP app, so that i could connect to my providers sip, where I have free calling.

johnkzin
2007-10-27, 13:47
A SIP client that works through a VPN tunnel would be nice.
That's NOT present on any Internet Tablet at the moment and even OS2008 won't have it from what's been said in the bugzilla report on it.
Some of us work at places where the Asterisk servers are behind Cisco PIX firewalls and would like to be able to have a "work phone" anywhere there's wi-fi.

Or we have SIP servers in our home (CommuniGate Pro, with the free community license). Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't GizmoPhone tied to Gizmo? And thus useless to me if I want to use my own SIP server? (same reason skype support isn't a big deal for me)

I want this thing to be my home phone handset :-)

luca
2007-10-27, 14:04
gizmophone is probably tied to gizmo, I don't know (though I believe you can use another provider), but rtcom (the latest update, about one month old) has standard sip capabilities.

johnkzin
2007-10-27, 14:08
isn't rtcom still in development?
(and unstable?)

TA-t3
2007-10-27, 14:37
I could write a list, but to me the General's list seems to cover it. And maybe throw in wimax, if feasible (for power requirements etc.).

And yes, we could of course also list what we want to do with it instead, as Ragnar suggests.. which sounds reasonable. However, what I've found over the time is that sometimes it's actually better to list the hardware requirements, because after a while (because of having been bitten before, and also the opposite) you develop a feel for what kind of features will open up the possibilities for you in the directions you want. So, a hw list it is, this time! ;)

luso
2007-10-27, 14:42
1) Expansion card support (e.g. to add a WiMax card or another communications card)

2) Good PIM and Office (so I can finally get rid of my Laptop)

3) 2 microSD cards

4) video out

5) SIP Phone

6) Bluetooth with possibility of controlling cell phones and other bluethooth devices (e.g. HD)

7) Faster processor and more internal memory

.. and keep the SW open source!

lbattraw
2007-10-27, 15:21
1) Expansion card support (e.g. to add a WiMax card or another communications card)

2) Good PIM and Office (so I can finally get rid of my Laptop)

3) 2 microSD cards

.. and keep the SW open source!
Anything but SD for "expansion" will increase the size of the device enormously and possibly lead off another doomed proprietary card format. I much prefer a supported and solid USB host capability so virtually anything can be plugged in, pending driver support. The n800 is nice in the fact that it can power smaller things like some card readers and mice/keyboards.

I would love to see a good PIM suite, and *maybe* some office-type applications. It's surprisingly hard to get any full-on office work done on such a small screen; I've tried it on Palms and other PDAs with mixed success. --A lot of scrolling involved.

Please, no microSD! Standard SD/SDHC only, as smaller cards will always lag the larger cards in density.

And finally, please do NOT include a phone! I don't want to have to pay a monthly fee to keep my device working or compromise even further on other functions to fit the additional chipset in.

Larry

Karel Jansens
2007-10-27, 15:39
I would love to see a good PIM suite, and *maybe* some office-type applications. It's surprisingly hard to get any full-on office work done on such a small screen; I've tried it on Palms and other PDAs with mixed success. --A lot of scrolling involved.

A Psion series 3a was my main computer for five years. I did extensive document creating, editing and even printing, both wordprocessor and spreadsheet, on it and kept several large databases. Scrolling was hardly an issue, but then the Psion's office applications were exceptionally well designed, way beyond anything that is currently available for portable devices.

I later used a Newton 2100 messagepad, again as my main computer, for another three years, with similar results, albeit that the Newton's office applications were slightly less well-designed.

It's not the screen size that is the problem, it's the software...

pixelseventy2
2007-10-27, 15:59
isn't rtcom still in development?
(and unstable?)

Still in beta, but I wouldn't say unstable. I've used it extensively to connect to my Asterisk VOIP server (SIP) while my ATA adapter was out of commission. I still use it when I can find an open wifi (not too many here in my part of the UK). But a good VPN that I can use to push it through would be nice.

Also:

1- increase screen res. to 1024*600
2- (much) bigger battery (or even 2 batteries which can be hot-swapped 1 at a time) - My XDA had a HUGE battery
3- PIM suite (contacts, calendar, todo) which can sync to outlook for work purposes
4- decent IMAP client - I use claws-mail and it works, but it's very finger-friendly
5- double CPU/RAM (needs the battery upgrade first tho)
6- replace the d-pad with something like the track-ball on a blackberry, and put one on the sliding keyboard and one on the front., they're small enough that it should work


induction charging would be very nice, a-la splash power, but not a requirement

pixelseventy2
2007-10-27, 16:00
and Wi-Max as an option, so that I don't have to pay for something I can't use. and NO PHONE. I've got a drawer full of them to pick from :)

Mika73
2007-10-27, 17:48
- Keyboard
- Good camera and video calls with Skype.

Bernard
2007-10-27, 18:00
1- increase screen res. to 1024*600



I really don't see a need for this. I think the screen is insanely sharp as it is, I really don't need even smaller letters.
I understand the need for more pixels, but not in a device this size.

pixelseventy2
2007-10-27, 18:10
I really don't see a need for this. I think the screen is insanely sharp as it is, I really don't need even smaller letters.
I understand the need for more pixels, but not in a device this size.

Agreed, this would only be valid with a screen size increase, but I would be happy with a boost to ~5" But a lot of sites are optimized for 1024 width, which don't all compress well to 800. Plus most of my friends are web designers, with poncy big sites :) Admittedly this isn't a huge concern, and certainly isn't going to stop me upgrading. But this thread is about what you would like to see, after all.

neubie
2007-10-27, 18:21
A 4.3" screen squeezed into that same nice 810 form factor.

vvaz
2007-10-27, 18:36
Bigger resolution means troubleless running of regular desktop applications on tablet. Common usability/accessibility requirement is fitting of all dialogs into 800x600 pixels.

Bernard
2007-10-27, 23:01
I would like to see a good D-pad and gaming controls along with openGL support for accelerated 3D games.

This could make the Internet Tablet OS THE main competitor for the GP2X linux system. I would love to see that (emulators, cool!!) :-)

Also I would like good support for windows media video files and streams. It seems that the next OS update will have support, but I'll believe it when I see it.

I would like to be able to view the files from http://www.uitzendinggemist.nl

Also a TV-out option would be very welcome. (just normal composite would be fine for me.

The N810 isn't just a Internet Tablet anymore, it is also a Car navigation system. I hope Nokia makes the N900 a portable gaming device in addition to the Internet Tablet part :-)

Come to think of it: a build in Hard drive would also be interesting.

But MOST importantly ANY new device SHOULD NOT be any bigger! I want to be able to carry it in my pocket.

johnkzin
2007-10-27, 23:49
Hi, if I can add to the conversation, I'd personally suggest to also write on the lines of "What would I like to be able to do with the tablet"


Ok. Here goes. This is the "how I would use it" version of the "technical details" list I gave. But, before I start that, I'd like to say that, really, a technical list does give you the information you want. The most basic perspective is: I will use this device in whatever way its technical capabilities enable me.

If I say "I want to have a SIP phone client in it", then that means I want to use it in whatever way a SIP phone client enables me, but that the other options (skype, google talk, gizmo, controlling my cell phone) do not. In that example, the main difference is: SIP integrates with my circuit switched home landline phone service. The others do not. So, while you may feel that giving a technical list doesn't give you the information you want, it does in fact do that. It just gives it to you in a manner that defines the envelope of device capabilities instead of in a manner which defines a marketing bullet list.

Anyway, here's my list:


1) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is access all of its ports without opening a kick stand, especially while it's in a carry case where I can't open a kick stand.

2) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is use it with just my thumbs, with the device closed, without losing basic functions (like the dpad, escape, menu, and home buttons), and do so in a manner which is not going to cause my thumbs or neck to have unnecessary fatigue, nor induce RSI's.

(#1 and #2 combine to make: tilt screen instead of kickstand, dpad and button cluster on the face, and having the dpad and button cluster not move relative to the keyboard (so, only the screen moves, not the buttons))

3) What I would like to do be able to do with the tablet is recharge it without having to manage, carry, buy, etc. tons of custom cables (one for home, one for work, one for the car, multiplied by however many devices I own that have custom cables). This is the 21st century, we can do better than that. Therefore, I want it to have USB charging, and not have that interfere with its ability to do USB-OTG at the same time. To me, that implies a separate port for USB-OTG and USB charging, thus "one USB client port, and one USB-OTG port".

4) What I would like to do be able to do with the tablet is use a universal card storage format, that can be inserted into any other device (with adapters if necessary). Therefore MicroSD instead of MiniSD nor full-size SD. I can put a microSD card into a memory stick adapter, a miniSD card adapter, a full size SD card adapter, or a USB card reader. I can also put it directly into a phone that supports microSD cards. I can't do that if you go back to full-size SD cards, nor stick with miniSD cards. (full support for transflash would be an interesting bonus, as well)

5) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is use it as a highly mobile workstation. Most of the time, the tiny screen is more than fine for that, but sometimes I want to hook it up to a monitor or TV so that I can do more "large scale" writing/work. Therefore, a micro-DVI adaptor that supports DVI-A would allow me to use the tablet in this fashion (and allowing it to do larger display resolutions on that external monitor would be good too ... 1024x768 would be enough, I'm sure).

6) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is use it with modern phones. More and more it seems that the trend is to support Bluetooth PAN and start to deprecate Bluetooth DUN. Therefore, it would be a good idea for the next generation device to support BOTH, to support both your users on existing phones with DUN support, as well as giving them the option to buy phones with PAN support.

7) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is use it as my primary user interface for my gadgets. That means I want it to be able to fully remote control my phone. I don't want to have to touch my phone except when I'm plugging it in to a charger or physically turn it on or off. Everything else should be done via the tablet and bluetooth. Similarly, I don't want to have to muck with storage, so a high degree of integration with a bluetooth storage device would be appropriate (all apps should be able to directly load data from such devices).

A nice addition to #7, but that I feel would be too costly in space and battery, would be to give it the option to also act as an infra-red remote for devices like TVs, DVD players, stereos, computers with IR keyboard inputs, etc. This would be _ideal_ for the "control my gadgets" aspect, but it's probably not realistic.

8) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is use it to take pictures of other people. I don't want/need to have it take pictures of me. I'm not a narcissist, so having a camera that points back at me is pretty useless to me (because I also don't care about video conferencing). But, being able to take basic, clear, pictures of things in my environment would be ideal. It doesn't have to compete with a dedicated camera, but it does have to compete with cell phone cameras. A flash would be cool, but I'd hate to see the effect it had on the battery. Video would be cool as well, but also not necessary.

9) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is use it as a replacement for my home phone handset. Since I can use SIP both at home and at work, it would be ideal if the next generation tablet had a highly polished, usable, and stable, SIP phone client included in the base device (not an add-on). Skype, Gizmo, and google talk do not help me here.

johnkzin
2007-10-27, 23:55
I really don't see a need for this. I think the screen is insanely sharp as it is, I really don't need even smaller letters.
I understand the need for more pixels, but not in a device this size.

I don't think the device itself needs to be bigger, but I can see having a virtual screen size that is different from the physical screen size. Then you can more easily port desktop apps to the device. And you wouldn't necessarily need applications to directly understand "zoom in" and "zoom out" -- it could be made part of the virtual -> physical screen infrastructure.

It would also help with a video-out feature, where the larger virtual screen size means you don't end up with a tiny display on a monitor or tv.

Not sure exactly how I would implement it, though.

ArnimS
2007-10-28, 01:59
I wouldn't be surprised if soon the screen *was* the face.

While we're at it, put a small trackball, nub, or analog DPAD as a substitute for the existing DPAD.


Most of us have two thumbs, some of us are left-handed. My left hand wants stylus and right hand wants buttons. But for games, both my thumbs want to find useful buttons/controls on either side of the face. On the left, a dpad - a GOOD dpad. And on the right an analog controller.


It woud be nice to be able to use this rig as a gaming unit for those that choose it, plus have a completely new (but still intuitive) input method, with exciting possibilities. A trackball would likely be the most space effective and versatile.


Trackball has too many problems - dirt, reliability. This is a superior option.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i26UXJOTkTk

(edit) I think that buttons on left and right hand side would be a turn-off for some purchasers - it would look too gamey. However, releasing N9x0 devices in a variety of form-factors could leverage the same basic hardware into a variety of markets. Just as the N800/N810 leverage the OS and hardware for two different usergroups, the N9x0 could have three formats, one as a small tablet, one with a keyboard, and one with both left-hand and right hand side controls to enable gaming use.

Looking at it from the perspective of promoting linux+ITOS as a platform, the more use-cases we have, the greater the user base. ITOS needs to gain more users and more develeopers to realize the benefits of the open-source model.

(edit2) Another use-case would be for a larger tablet style form factor - same hardware just larger screen. For older ppl who can't read 200dpi text - for hospital use, for vertical markets.

iball
2007-10-28, 04:27
a bigass™ battery would be nice. one that could go around 12 hours with wifi and gps running.

Be fscking realistic. Even the BEST dedicated BT GPS receivers only last 8 hours and that's ONLY doing GPS/BT and nothing else.
Go talk to the dedicated battery manufacturers about that.

jmk
2007-10-28, 05:15
Be fscking realistic. Even the BEST dedicated BT GPS receivers only last 8 hours and that's ONLY doing GPS/BT and nothing else.
Go talk to the dedicated battery manufacturers about that.

I have Insmat InsSirf III bluetooth gps receiver. Battery lasts up to 16 hours (1800 mAh) ;-).

Btw it is very good gps receiver and compatible with Nokia chargers. Manual: http://www.insmat.fi/images/kayttoohjeet/Manual_BT-338_English_Ver1.06b.pdf

Jupex
2007-10-28, 07:31
What I would like to see is:

- Proper 16:9 display. Helps watching the TV shows
- SIM card slot for 3g / gprs card (no calls / sms / MMS)
- More memory + more cpu power for faster video
- Proper calendar
- Outlook sync

johnkzin
2007-10-28, 07:40
GPRS!? Not even EDGE? Why bother? HSUPA/HSDPA ... maybe EDGE if you want to work with T-Mobile. But, really, if you're going with WiMAX for one device, might as well go with HSUPA/HSDPA. If you're going with GPRS, just stick to tethering to a cell phone.

pixelseventy2
2007-10-28, 09:31
Since I can use SIP both at home and at work, it would be ideal if the next generation tablet had a highly polished, usable, and stable, SIP phone client included in the base device (not an add-on).


Isn't RTComm going to be included in chinook? Granted the n800 form factor required me to use the headset, but i'm hoping the n810 will fix this.

Wizard69
2007-10-28, 09:34
This question tweaked my interest enough to sign up. Guess that means it is a good question. The good response already received highlight that fact. So my list:


More RAM, and a much larger secondary store. 16 GigaBytes to start for flash.
GPS is a very useful technology and I'd like to see that kept.
A 16:9 screen or close to that. Enough pixels to keep the HD content on screen without manipulation. Of course this means we need real video hardware without the current compromises.
A compact flash slot. Sorry folks but compact flash is the standard for professional photography hardware. It is also more cost effective.
Dual processors of at least 600 MHz each. Really this is the power efficient way to scale performance while keeping power usage in check.
Depending on the processor chosen, it may be advantageous to add video play back hardware.
Real USB host ports using standard USB port plugs.
Blue Tooth of course. Ideally the whole world would be Blue tooth but that is a ways off. Thus the need for a standard USB port.
Support a "terminal" communications package like GTKTerm.
Personally I'd like to get rid of as many front mounted buttons as possible. The screen should expand as much as possible to cover the front surface. If there is one thing that Apple has gotten right it is the idea of going large with the screen.
Touch screen data entry like the i series from Apple but with full support for a Blue Tooth keyboard.
FM radio should come back too. Considering you can get WiFi, Bluetooth and FM all in one system this should be a no brianer.
Short wave radio would be nice too. Obviously with all these radios provision for a antenna would be nice.
Ambient temperature and other condition sensing.
Multiple charging options. One option would be being able to handle a wide voltage input on a jack separate from the USB charging input. We are talking something like between 8 and 28 volts DC. The idea is to take raw DC from a solar panel, car, commercial vehicle, military vehicle, industrial power source and charge our man.
Drop the camera or make it an optional module. The optional module should be worth the expense though.


That is stuff off the top of my head. Someone mentioned how we would like to use the machine. What I'm looking for is something that can cruise the net and do stuff associated with that easily. If zooming and other enhancements that Apple has made could be implemented similarly than we could have a useful device in the pocket. That is one thing.

Next what I'm looking for is a device that can handle the storage of a lot of off line material. Mostly in PDF form. Such material would be used on location as part of the job. Mostly documentation of hardware.

A good subset of this info is also available in the form of HTML and or web sites. Being able to run a local server and "server up" those web sites on the device would be nice. Serving is not a huge deal as a good portion of HTML documentation is in the form of static pages or stuff that could go static easily.

The N-device would be used to support and thus connect to industrial devices such as bar code readers, printers, drives and automation devices. Thus the need for a good terminal emulator and a normal USB port. The last thing I need to do is to run around looking for a special USB cable when we have hundreds of standard cables just waiting to be used.

A good scripting language needs to be supported on the device. Here I'd like to see Python adopted widely. The thing is when you need to write quick scripts it helps to have a lot of supporting code on your system ready for use.

As to user software beyond that I'd rather see a flexible system than something based on one path of development. Gnome and KDE are nice, I have gnome (Fedora version) as my desktop but I think it is obvious that a light weight desktop/application environment makes better sense here. In any event why not give users an option at system initialization time. Using GDM works too to setup your environment, but I don't believe that most people would want to waste so much secondary store on multiple desktops/programing interfaces.

Given all of that contacts management is a must. It is also an area where there is still opportunity to get it right. The opportunity is in the presentation of the info to the user.

Nokia should seriously consider throwing their weight into OpenMoko development. Not so much to give up, but rather to piece together a platform that at the moment seems highly fractured. To compete against Windows Mobile you need a good underlying system supported with good apps. This even if there is no phone feature at all in the N900. The idea is to present a development platform that is an alternative to WM and the i series from Apple. I don't believe that a lot of people see the N series that way. Flexible yes but lets face it not setting a lot of fires with unit sales. Long term the N series needs to have a software platform that is in common with other devices.


Dave

GeneralAntilles
2007-10-28, 10:29
A 16:9 screen or close to that. Enough pixels to keep the HD content on screen without manipulation. Of course this means we need real video hardware without the current compromises.



I'm not interested in a longer device just for slightly "improved" viewing of some of my media (and worse viewing of 4:3 material).


A compact flash slot. Sorry folks but compact flash is the standard for professional photography hardware. It is also more cost effective.



"Compact" flash is unbelievably huge and inappropriate for a device of this type. SD is much smaller, and mostly identical performance wise. If they couldn't fit a fullsize SD slot into the N810, I don't want to imagine the sacrifices they'd have to make to fit a CF slot.


Dual processors of at least 600 MHz each. Really this is the power efficient way to scale performance while keeping power usage in check.
Depending on the processor chosen, it may be advantageous to add video play back hardware.



TI OMAP 3430


Real USB host ports using standard USB port plugs.



Another bad idea, USB ports are huge. See above for size issues.


Personally I'd like to get rid of as many front mounted buttons as possible. The screen should expand as much as possible to cover the front surface. If there is one thing that Apple has gotten right it is the idea of going large with the screen.



Then go buy yourself an iPhone. The loss of a front-face d-pad is pretty bad for any gaming hopes me might have had. Personally, I'd like to see exactly the opposite—ambidextrous buttons on both sides.


Touch screen data entry like the i series from Apple but with full support for a Blue Tooth keyboard.



Not sure what you're talking about here, but, assuming I managed to parse it correctly, we already have this.


FM radio should come back too. Considering you can get WiFi, Bluetooth and FM all in one system this should be a no brianer.



FM Radio should only come back if we can get access to traffic data from the FM-sideband for use in maemo Mapper.


Short wave radio would be nice too. Obviously with all these radios provision for a antenna would be nice.



You're kidding, right?


Ambient temperature and other condition sensing.



Waste of space and money with the highly variable conditions in and around a mobile device (Oh, look! The temperature just shot up 10-degrees while I was playing Quake).


Multiple charging options. One option would be being able to handle a wide voltage input on a jack separate from the USB charging input. We are talking something like between 8 and 28 volts DC. The idea is to take raw DC from a solar panel, car, commercial vehicle, military vehicle, industrial power source and charge our man.



USB charging would be a nicety, but other than that, just buy yourself a cigarette lighter adaptor and be quiet. :\


Drop the camera or make it an optional module. The optional module should be worth the expense though.



Optional module means either increased manufacturing costs to produce two separate devices, which drives prices up, or some sort of modular camera package, which means increased size and decreased durability. Bad plan.
[/LIST]


That is stuff off the top of my head. Someone mentioned how we would like to use the machine. What I'm looking for is something that can cruise the net and do stuff associated with that easily. If zooming and other enhancements that Apple has made could be implemented similarly than we could have a useful device in the pocket. That is one thing.



It surfs the net quite nicely, and the zoom function works well. Not sure what the issue here is.


Next what I'm looking for is a device that can handle the storage of a lot of off line material. Mostly in PDF form. Such material would be used on location as part of the job. Mostly documentation of hardware.

A good subset of this info is also available in the form of HTML and or web sites. Being able to run a local server and "server up" those web sites on the device would be nice. Serving is not a huge deal as a good portion of HTML documentation is in the form of static pages or stuff that could go static easily.


Both of these features are available now.


The N-device would be used to support and thus connect to industrial devices such as bar code readers, printers, drives and automation devices. Thus the need for a good terminal emulator and a normal USB port. The last thing I need to do is to run around looking for a special USB cable when we have hundreds of standard cables just waiting to be used.


Buy yourself a Bluetooth/Serial adaptor and get to writing software. Carman already works fine with OBD-II over Bluetooth, so this feature is pretty much available now.


A good scripting language needs to be supported on the device. Here I'd like to see Python adopted widely. The thing is when you need to write quick scripts it helps to have a lot of supporting code on your system ready for use.


Python 2.5 is available right now and a new Ruby port was just released.

Mika73
2007-10-28, 10:58
How about.. FM transmitter..

Then you could listen internet radio/mp3s etc and with external stereo. (No wires)

hotjug
2007-10-28, 11:10
Meanwhile there is some thinking going on in the opposite direction eg in the direction of needs->device vs like in this thread device->needed changes to hardware.

Well worth a look
a presentation: http://itredux.com/redux/RM1.pdf

and several posts - one of them:
http://itredux.com/blog/2007/10/08/revision-four/

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-28, 16:44
@ArnimS

Nice to meet you! Congrats on all of your devel work for the platform. I've looked at your blit code and appreciate your appreciation for keeping loops tight. I look forward to contributing as well, and having many discussions with you.

Most of us have two thumbs, some of us are left-handed. My left hand wants stylus and right hand wants buttons. But for games, both my thumbs want to find useful buttons/controls on either side of the face. On the left, a dpad - a GOOD dpad. And on the right an analog controller.

Trackball has too many problems - dirt, reliability. This is a superior option.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i26UXJOTkTk

I've thought about your post. I agree (after doing research) that the trackball has durability issues. More importantly, the trackball would present usability challenges for the general public. I've also considered your solution regarding the flattened analog "slider". I think that from a gamer perspective, it's a good choice, but not not necessarily for the masses. From experience, the dpad is far more comfortable for normal on-screen selection.

I believe I've come up with a suitable compromise. I've attached an image of the proposed interface and break down the specifics below:

The RoundPad
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=497&stc=1&d=1193595111

1) I call the new interface the RoundPad. It's simply a round d-pad, that can be depressed, but is also a capacitive touchpad on its face, for multi-positional input (just like the analog stick).

2) Based on the sensed finger position, the depression (through software) will determine what direction the user has pressed. This allows for a 4-directional dpad, 8-directional dpad, or n-directional dpad emulation. This makes it just as intuative as the original dpad, and usable for many games.

3) There are raised ridges on the RoundPad, to provide tactile feedback of where the finger is situated on the RoundPad without looking down at it.

4) There are steep ridges at the edges of the RoundPad, to let the user know, through touch, when they have reached the edge of the pad.

5) The circular shape is an important characteristic of the RoundPad. Not only for the namesake, but allows both planar and spherical mapping from touch input. Spherical mapping can provide the ability to rotate objects easily, *or* if one were to imagine that (s)he was _in_ the sphere, the ability to look in multiple directions. This would work especially well for first person shooters, that allowed looking around in any direction and jumping (for example), all with one thumb.

6) The RoundPad would be slightly oversized, but not a huge disc.

To solve the problem with the 'game' buttons, the N900 can simply have slightly raised keypad buttons on the right of the keypad. For example, the keys [i, o, p, k, l, ',: , -, +] would be rounded to emulate the keys of a joypad, but not limiting keypad input. Imagine using the picture below:

http://www.internettablettalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/002.jpg

This implies that the RoundPad would likely go on the keypad, keeping the face free for larger screen sizes with potentially higher resolutions.

From there, styling (colours/form factor) and marketing can differentiate between tablets targeted at different demographics without fragmented production/support of additional hardware/software (eg. neon green for gamer teens, silver for executives, shiny black for metro-sexuals, pink 'hello kitty' for schoolgirls, etc). Maemo skins and pre-installed application can complete the different flavours.

In short, the N900 is one step closer to true convergence without 'geeking' it up at all.

This doesn't solve the problem of lefties-vs-righties, but the pressure reduction on manufacturing may enable Nokia to produce limited runs of a left handed keypad for inclusion in 'specialty' tablets.



A digression for those that are interested....

I produced the RoundPad graphic in an OpenSource (100% Free) program called Blender (http://blender.org). It's a HIGHLY full featured modeling, animation, compositing app, that can compete with commercial applications costing thousands of dollars. It's freely available for Linux, Windows, Mac, etc. in only a 12MB download (incredible, isn't it).

I've modeled the image SPECIFICALLY in 800x480 to simulate how it might look and to prove that that it *can* be done on the N-Series tablet (from an interface perspective). In fact, the interface of this program is so versatile, that with the addition of the keypad, and use of the stylus, one could model on the tiny N810 with great efficiency! Without the keypad, though, there would be a number of challenges.

I've modeled using a 200MHz pentium before, and while it was sluggish, it was usable. With the N800 (especially when/if accelerated openGL hits) the application should be quite usable. It's very light -- ~30MB ram with a detailed object consisting of 50,000 faces, and the ability to split models up into different groups or files to keep on-screen geometry/memory low enough to be usable.

This is software design at its finest. I only wish more developers (commercial and open) designed to the level of the Blender Foundation. To see Blender's capabilities first hand check out the gallery (http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/gallery/images/), hit a video (http://www.veoh.com/videos/e65287KzxDbJx9?searchId=4926207976874447332&rank=1), or go to blender.org (http://blender.org). The fact that the N810 should be capable of contributing to a design project *and* being stored in the pocket is incredible.

Ok. That's it for now.


}:^)~
YARR!!

Capt'n C-type 2000 Spyder

dblank
2007-10-28, 17:06
Optional module means either increased manufacturing costs to produce two separate devices, which drives prices up, or some sort of modular camera package, which means increased size and decreased durability. Bad plan.


I spend a good deal of time in an area that doesn't allow cameras, and more and more places seem to be going this route :(

I think it'd be great to have an easily removable camera, if not an optional module.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-28, 18:15
I've Blender interface layout above to be better suited for an Nxxx display.


}:^)~
YARR!!

About to take a Napt'n

Wizard69
2007-10-28, 21:09
I'm not interested in a longer device just for slightly "improved" viewing of some of my media (and worse viewing of 4:3 material).

I'm not the least bit concerned about 4:3 material. The reality is that by the time the N900 is released 4:3 sources will be dying out. I'm thinking more about a platform for the future than something to support the past. Next year should see the cessation of 4:3 television sales and the transition to HD only sets. This is really just being forward looking.


"Compact" flash is unbelievably huge and inappropriate for a device of this type. SD is much smaller, and mostly identical performance wise. If they couldn't fit a fullsize SD slot into the N810, I don't want to imagine the sacrifices they'd have to make to fit a CF slot.

Huge maybe but the standard for many devices including professional photography hardware.



TI OMAP 3430

Have to look that one up. If it can better manage power and still deliver a significant boost in performance I'm all for it.



Another bad idea, USB ports are huge. See above for size issues.

Not really that huge. Certainly worth any trade off one might have to consider space wise. If you don't like compact flash this is a good alternative as it would allow driving common off the shelf CF adapters. Not to mention the large number of other USB ports available.




Then go buy yourself an iPhone. The loss of a front-face d-pad is pretty bad for any gaming hopes me might have had. Personally, I'd like to see exactly the opposite—ambidextrous buttons on both sides.

Then go buy a PSP!! Really this is a poor argument as most people aren't buying N series devices for use as game machines.

The whole idea here though is to provide space for a 16:9 screen. Of course we want to keep the device manageable size wise.


FM Radio should only come back if we can get access to traffic data from the FM-sideband for use in maemo Mapper.

FM Radio is practically free since it can be had built into WiFi chips. The only issue is the antenna. This is a capability that is low cost but dramatically enhances a multimedia device.


You're kidding, right?

Err NO! It certainly is a bigger item then many here but is not impossible with current technology. With the right processor much of the "radio" can be done in software.




Waste of space and money with the highly variable conditions in and around a mobile device (Oh, look! The temperature just shot up 10-degrees while I was playing Quake).

All depends on how important atmospheric conditions are to you.




USB charging would be a nicety, but other than that, just buy yourself a cigarette lighter adaptor and be quiet. :\

Well going solar is quite! A wide range voltage input just makes it easier to connect up such devices.




Optional module means either increased manufacturing costs to produce two separate devices, which drives prices up, or some sort of modular camera package, which means increased size and decreased durability. Bad plan.

Yes but the problem is that cameras simply are not permitted in some places. That is a big issue. The other issue is that the cameras are hardly that inspiring quality wise.


[/LIST]



It surfs the net quite nicely, and the zoom function works well. Not sure what the issue here is.

I like the way the browser on the i series devices have enough intelligence to zoom in on the section of the page that you tap on. It is done with a considerable amount of smarts and an apparent understanding of the HTML and CSS. It is not a simple zoom.


Buy yourself a Bluetooth/Serial adaptor and get to writing software. Carman already works fine with OBD-II over Bluetooth, so this feature is pretty much available now.
That seems to work well with RS232 type devices but what if you want to hook up to a USB device. It would be much easier with a real USB host port.



Python 2.5 is available right now and a new Ruby port was just released.

I understand that one can get Python. What I would like to see is Nokia make it a primary part of the system as I currently see it as an add on. The idea being a fully supported python and library set. If I misunderstand Pythons current support level then I apologize. I just want to see Python as important on the N machines as Java is on some Motorola phones.

Dave

Wizard69
2007-10-28, 21:21
I spend a good deal of time in an area that doesn't allow cameras, and more and more places seem to be going this route :(

Sad yes. This is my primary concern with the built in camera. In some facilities I would have to physically remove the camera which of course on the current machine would make a mess of it. Due to the quality of these devices it wouldn't be a big loss.

On the good side of things such a module should make for an upgradeable camera.


I think it'd be great to have an easily removable camera, if not an optional module.

I do wonder if it is needed at all. Lets face it if you are carrying around a cell phone with the N series device do you really need another camera? Maybe for video chat and such but is that really a big draw?

dave

Bernard
2007-10-28, 21:26
I understand that one can get Python. What I would like to see is Nokia make it a primary part of the system as I currently see it as an add on. The idea being a fully supported python and library set. If I misunderstand Pythons current support level then I apologize. I just want to see Python as important on the N machines as Java is on some Motorola phones.

Dave

Python will be part of future Nokia Internet Tablet operating systems.
http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/06/30/python-included-by-default-in-future-versions-of-maemo

It just isn't fully ready yet.

The first final versions of Python for S60 have also just been released.
Python is very much supported by Nokia.

jhoff80
2007-10-28, 21:46
Realistically:

Faster processor (600 mhz or so)
No video bandwidth issues.
Transflective screen w/ 24 bit color
Dual microSDHC slots.
Keyboard that has a tab key.
FM radio
GPS (something that locks on within 30 seconds or so, although preferably it'd allow for downloading ephemeris data from the internet for pretty much instant satellite acquisitions.)
2 GB of flash is fine if they still give two memory card slots.
Double the RAM.

I'd pay $480 for THAT device, but I don't think I will for the N810.

Some of the suggestions here are absolutely crazy and would end up giving us $2000 tablets, it seems.

Also, I've seen it a ton of times here and on the easter egg post, but I don't get why everyone is so enamored with the idea of having an IR transmitter inside, I'll stick to my Harmony remote personally, does things much better than a touchscreen remote could.

Wizard69
2007-10-28, 21:46
Meanwhile there is some thinking going on in the opposite direction eg in the direction of needs->device vs like in this thread device->needed changes to hardware.

I don't quite see this thread in that light. The various people posting here have needs that could be meet with additional hardware. Or better yet refactored hardware. Especially after the disappointment of the N810, I do hope that somebody tries to distill some product specs out of this thread. If the N810 can be seen as a step backwards this thread can be seen as an indication of what a step forward would be.

Well worth a look
a presentation: http://itredux.com/redux/RM1.pdf

and several posts - one of them:
http://itredux.com/blog/2007/10/08/revision-four/
An interesting machine to say the least. The mention of the Qualicomm chip set is new to me and looks very promising. That is if somebody adopts it in a mass produced product. My feeling is though that this project will be late to market if the goal is next September.

The issue being that competition seems to be heating up in the tablet, large phone business. I'm expecting a flood of stuff between now and the end of March.

Dave

Wizard69
2007-10-28, 21:56
Python will be part of future Nokia Internet Tablet operating systems.

I did not here of this until now. That after visiting the N series development site several times.

Python is very much supported by Nokia.
This is really good to hear as it is, in my opinion, a better platform than Java for small devices.

Note that I'm rather new to the N series. I've only taken an interest lately due to the iPhone and similar devices that are pocket portable. Not commitments have been made yet, the N810 certainly doesn't inspire*, but I'm hoping to see the right product on the market soon.

*
The saddest part about the N810 is the puny flash store on the device. I just can't comprehend the management decision that went into that.

Dave

GeneralAntilles
2007-10-28, 23:23
I'm not the least bit concerned about 4:3 material. The reality is that by the time the N900 is released 4:3 sources will be dying out. I'm thinking more about a platform for the future than something to support the past. Next year should see the cessation of 4:3 television sales and the transition to HD only sets. This is really just being forward looking.


New 4:3 sources may be dying out (not really, there's still a ton of it around), but old sources aren't suddenly going to change as HD becomes more popular, and I'd like to be able to watch those old things comfortably.


Huge maybe but the standard for many devices including professional photography hardware.


Be that as it may, you're not being realistic. Look at the dimensions:

SD—32mm x 24mm x 2mm
CF-Type I—43mm x 36mm x 3.3mm

That's more than 30% larger overall. For a device which can barely take MiniSD, it's incredibly misguided to think that it would be able to handle a CF card without a major increase in overall size (bad). This, is a bad idea.


Have to look that one up. If it can better manage power and still deliver a significant boost in performance I'm all for it.

Yes and yes.


Not really that huge. Certainly worth any trade off one might have to consider space wise. If you don't like compact flash this is a good alternative as it would allow driving common off the shelf CF adapters. Not to mention the large number of other USB ports available.


But it is huge, especially for a mobile device. MiniUSB is about a 70% space savings over full-A USB and MicroUSB another 50% off of that. Again, your understanding of size constraints in mobile devices seems to be flawed. Just get yourself some USB devices that support USB OTG and the right kind of cables. You'll be set.


Then go buy a PSP!! Really this is a poor argument as most people aren't buying N series devices for use as game machines.


The number of games available for the platform would beg to differ. I don't want a PSP, it doesn't do the things I need it to do—it does one thing well, games, and I'm not interested in carrying around a single-function device like that. I don't see why we should have functionality crippled for the sake of a full-faced screen.


The whole idea here though is to provide space for a 16:9 screen. Of course we want to keep the device manageable size wise.


Then keep the screen ratio the way it is and leave me with my d-pad.


Err NO! It certainly is a bigger item then many here but is not impossible with current technology. With the right processor much of the "radio" can be done in software.


Uh, you still need something to bring down that frequency. This is a bad idea for a lot of reasons, not only because nobody uses shortwave.


All depends on how important atmospheric conditions are to you.


That's what the internet is for, and if those conditions are really that important to you, maybe you should just buy yourself a digital weather device of some kind, because I know highly-variable atmospheric reading from my IT are at about the bottom of my list of "needed features".


Well going solar is quite! A wide range voltage input just makes it easier to connect up such devices.


And a decent solar device should have some sort of standard plug you can hook into.


Yes but the problem is that cameras simply are not permitted in some places. That is a big issue. The other issue is that the cameras are hardly that inspiring quality wise.


Which would be where an E-series IT would come in, but I suspect that that's a ways off (if it ever comes).

Ryanzilla244
2007-10-29, 00:50
Would be nice:

1GB ram (maybe 512mb)
16Gb Flash Drive
Full skype and Msn support
Higher res screen
Change of design..... maybe something different for nokia.
Jar file support
Wifi range extended (great for chilling in the garden at summer time)
The option to install different OS, ubuntu for example.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-29, 00:54
I'd prefer the dpad to remain on the keypad portion of the device:

1) I think that the dpad is a useful input mechanism for _casual use_, but can be circumvented entirely by sound software-interface design decisions.

2) If the screen is to enlarge (which it likely will) a dpad takes up valuable face real-estate.

3) For advanced/alternate input, the sliding keypad + dpad, is ideal (IMO, of course). This can be modified to include touch-typing and game input.

I think Nokia hit it right on the head with the new N810 form.


}:^)~
YARR!!

Ciggidy-Capt'n Corrupt

jhoff80
2007-10-29, 01:30
You know, I was thinking. What about a device that incorporates a sliding and folding keyboard. I guess I'm picturing a thin keyboard like the stowaways with two hinges that fold in towards center, and then slides in underneath the screen. The d-pad would have to go back on the front, as well as some other buttons, but it would be great to have a full keyboard for when writing long emails and then use the onscreen keyboard for all the short material.

Just throwing the idea out there.

johnkzin
2007-10-29, 01:42
You know, I was thinking. What about a device that incorporates a sliding and folding keyboard. I guess I'm picturing a thin keyboard like the stowaways with two hinges that fold in towards center, and then slides in underneath the screen. The d-pad would have to go back on the front, as well as some other buttons, but it would be great to have a full keyboard for when writing long emails and then use the onscreen keyboard for all the short material.

Just throwing the idea out there.

A folding full size keyboard in an IT sized device has been done.

There's a korean wibro product that does it. I'm not interested ... I'd rather have a bluetooth keyboard for full speed typing, and a thumb keyboard built into the device for on-the-go typing.

Let me see if I can dig up a reference to the korean one...

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=SPH-P9200&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

The keyboard folds in half, and then folds behind the screen.

jhoff80
2007-10-29, 02:18
Yeah, I think I'd probably prefer the thumb keyboard as well, but it was just an idea I had (that I thought was original).

gammer
2007-10-29, 09:41
Like you all I scroll a lot on the NIT. Therefore I would highly appreciate a scrollwheel (as the Pepperpad 3 has).

And the camera should be a plug and play add-on because I work at places where cameras are not welcome. Also, a pluggable camera could be used for video conferences, but then replugged 180 degrees rotated to take pictures. And one could buy a better one to take better pictures / videos. Archos has these add-on video cams.

TA-t3
2007-10-29, 10:05
Re the discussion about CF cards: CF really isn't the most cost-effective anymore. SD has taken over that role. It's also approaching 32GB, and the latest SLR digital cameras I looked at all had an SD slot in addition to CF.

gammer
2007-10-29, 10:24
Hardware as http://www.wibrain.com/ is what I would like to see from Nokia. Plus Maemo and the invaluable always-on we already have, of course. Check the specs page!

ragnar
2007-10-29, 11:03
Hardware as http://www.wibrain.com/ is what I would like to see from Nokia. Plus Maemo and the invaluable always-on we already have, of course. Check the specs page!

That's the scariest looking piece of hardware i've seen in a long long time. :D

gammer
2007-10-29, 13:50
That's the scariest looking piece of hardware i've seen in a long long time. :D

Well, ok, design excluded. Not THAT bad, but somewhat odd.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-29, 14:21
@gammer
Hardware as http://www.wibrain.com/ is what I would like to see from Nokia. Plus Maemo and the invaluable always-on we already have, of course. Check the specs page!

Great link! Just goes to show that soon the market is going to be FLOODED with "Internet Tablets."

I'm rooting for Nokia, as they are the only ones that seem to want to make this class of device capable of fitting ones pocket and hope that they keep tending towards perfect convergence. They are getting nearly everything 'right'.

... but I understand that you'd like the specs of this device, and not necessarily for Nokia to manufacture a clone. ;)


}:^)~
YARR!!

Nokia Capt'n-series

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-29, 14:48
I think I'm going to model and render a mock up of what the N900 could potentially look like using selected suggestions from this forum.

Nerdy, yes, but also a fun project. I'll try to keep it extremely realistic, based on what we know, adhering to the proportions of the N810.

Keep'em coming!


}:^)~
YARR!!

Capt'n Corrupt the third

johnkzin
2007-10-29, 15:04
Hardware as http://www.wibrain.com/ is what I would like to see from Nokia. Plus Maemo and the invaluable always-on we already have, of course. Check the specs page!

The wibrain does have a great device layout (the ergonomic design I keep saying is ideal) ... but the problem is it's too long. There's no way it's going to fit in my pocket. That's why I keep saying that it ergonomically ideal, but not going to happen.

That's the problem with the split keyboard design: it's not going to be a "pocket tablet", it's going to be something bigger than that.

And, of course, the wibrain has 2 other problems.

The first being it runs Windows. If it had full driver support for, say, ubuntu, maybe I'd run it.

The second being: it's vaporware. The latest of its designs looks MUCH better than the one they were floating out there in January/Febraury, but there's still actual device on the market.


Though, with that said, if Nokia wanted to put out a slightly larger device as a "big brother" to the n800 series, the wibrain wouldn't be a bad starting place. Put a back facing camera on it, and maybe slightly taller then 3 inches (for hand comfort) (so maybe it'd be 8"x5" instead of 8"x3"). In that extra space, put a micro-DVI out and an express card slot (which you can use for more USB slots, USB-OTG, card readers, etc.), and some more battery space for longer life.

zestuart
2007-10-29, 15:19
I need a reak SIP app, so that i could connect to my providers sip, where I have free calling.

Gizmo certainly offers you the ability to sign into both Gizmo's servers and a secondary server as well. I've been wanting to try it with my phone server at work but it doesn't support SIP yet.

pixelseventy2
2007-10-29, 15:35
Gizmo certainly offers you the ability to sign into both Gizmo's servers and a secondary server as well. I've been wanting to try it with my phone server at work but it doesn't support SIP yet.

When I tried it with gizmo, it would only connect to an externally accesible SIP provider. I couldn't connect to the Asterisk server on my LAN, but I could connect to one of the SIP providers I use. RTComm solved this, and integrates nicely into the OS.

ericdkirk
2007-10-29, 15:47
I want an option for a dock, I want to be able to dock the thing, it charge over power and over cat5 let me access it, no usb dock that forces you to run Linux or windows, give me network dock with a smb/nfs option and that will be way faster too. you could even add a video and audio out and let is stream music or movies.

Wizard69
2007-10-30, 03:25
Just about all of the recently release pro SLR's have compact flash ports, some two ports. In any event once you leave the world of cell phones compact flash is still very popular.

In any event I don't see this as serious as a standard host USB port. I really don't care how much space it takes up either. The IT have a rather crappy camera that takes up space and nobody complains about that. Same thing with the excess of buttons on the device.

Dave


Re the discussion about CF cards: CF really isn't the most cost-effective anymore. SD has taken over that role. It's also approaching 32GB, and the latest SLR digital cameras I looked at all had an SD slot in addition to CF.

johnkzin
2007-10-30, 03:30
Just about all of the recently release pro SLR's have compact flash ports, some two ports. In any event once you leave the world of cell phones compact flash is still very popular.

And once you leave the world of PDA's. CF cards aren't anywhere near as popular as they used to be in the PDA arena. Which is too bad, really. The specialty card market for CF's was rather cool. A PDA with a CF card and the right drivers could directly be a cell phone. Or a wifi PDA. Or chemical sensor. etc.

These days, you have to go with a PC-Card or an Express card to get that functionality/flexibility ... and those cards are too big to put in a PDA.

Wizard69
2007-10-30, 03:36
Some other things to consider.

1.
A better screen with 8 bits resolution and better color fidelity.

2.
LED technology possibly.

3.
Battery technology improvements. No matter what Nokia does with power management it would be nice to know that we have best in class battery performance. That seems to be very much a moving target at the moment.

4.
Solid provision for a lanyard / locking loop!


These are just a few more ideas. Not to confuse people but I would like a device that does multiple things well. A device that supports me at work, a device that allows remote internet access and a device that support hobbies such a photography. Maybe to much to ask of one device, at least with current technology.

Dave

jhoff80
2007-10-30, 03:38
Once you leave the world of cellphones there's a lot of compact flash being used? Uh where? Only older SLR cameras nowadays. Quite frankly its a pretty dead format other than that. My Wii has a memory slot... SD. My brother's laptop's memory slot? SD. Digital picture frames? TomTom Navigators? Sansa MP3 players? All SD.

You'd be hard pressed to find anything else recent that uses CompactFlash.

Wizard69
2007-10-30, 03:41
I was thinking more along the lines of a keyboard that snaps onto the mother unit but is intended to be used detached. BLutooth of course. The idea being that you use the device in the normal way when you don't need the keyboard around. Other wise you bring the keyboard along. The goal being to minimize the mechanical issues associated with slide, pivot or swing keyboards.

Dave


You know, I was thinking. What about a device that incorporates a sliding and folding keyboard. I guess I'm picturing a thin keyboard like the stowaways with two hinges that fold in towards center, and then slides in underneath the screen. The d-pad would have to go back on the front, as well as some other buttons, but it would be great to have a full keyboard for when writing long emails and then use the onscreen keyboard for all the short material.

Just throwing the idea out there.

Texrat
2007-10-30, 03:42
CompactFlash is also used for connecting small devices to laptops and Windows Mobile computers. 2 that come to mind are RFID and barcode scanners. If I looked I'm sure I'd find a few more...

aleksandyr
2007-10-30, 03:43
CFIO is slowly being replaced by SDIO, and I imagine both will go the way of dinosaurs once USB-OTG gets a little more popular.

RS232 + a bluetooth adapter, to me, covers the CFIO cases.

Wizard69
2007-10-30, 03:49
Once you leave the world of cellphones there's a lot of compact flash being used? Uh where? Only older SLR cameras nowadays. Quite frankly its a pretty dead format other than that. My Wii has a memory slot... SD. My brother's laptop's memory slot? SD. Digital picture frames? TomTom Navigators? Sansa MP3 players? All SD.

CF is very popular in embedded devices. Like it or not it is used in higher quality Cameras. It can potentially be used in any device with an IDE port, so in reality many devices are CF capable even if not advertised that way.


You'd be hard pressed to find anything else recent that uses CompactFlash.

Well I guess that the photography mag I was browsing at the store the other day got it all wrong. I could have sworn that Nikon latest best of the breed Digital SLRs are using CF. ;)

In any event I'd be happy to see a host USB port that would allow me to use the multitude of adapters available for compact flash and a lot of other technologies.

Dave

GeneralAntilles
2007-10-30, 04:01
<more CF nonsense />


Popularity is irrelevant as size constraints are a much more pressing issue. :rolleyes:

Wizard69
2007-10-30, 04:15
New 4:3 sources may be dying out (not really, there's still a ton of it around), but old sources aren't suddenly going to change as HD becomes more popular, and I'd like to be able to watch those old things comfortably.

I realize the old stuff won't disappear soon. But I'd rather be backward compatible than have no forward capability at all.

Besides you loose absolutely nothing with a standard def signal being displayed in a wide screen monitor. Given that you fill the screen vertically, you will see all that can be seen of a standard def signal and the actual picture will not be any smaller.
[/quote]
Be that as it may, you're not being realistic. Look at the dimensions:

SD—32mm x 24mm x 2mm
CF-Type I—43mm x 36mm x 3.3mm
[/quote]
Yep a little fat.

That's more than 30% larger overall. For a device which can barely take MiniSD, it's incredibly misguided to think that it would be able to handle a CF card without a major increase in overall size (bad). This, is a bad idea.

Well we are talking about a new device here not a N810. There is no reason for the N900 to have the little keyboard and all the compromises that caused.



Yes and yes.

Man there is a lot of effort being put into hardware for these sorts of devices. TI. SAMSUNG, QUALCOM and whomever else. All this activity has to bear fruit someday soon.



But it is huge, especially for a mobile device. MiniUSB is about a 70% space savings over full-A USB and MicroUSB another 50% off of that. Again, your understanding of size constraints in mobile devices seems to be flawed. Just get yourself some USB devices that support USB OTG and the right kind of cables. You'll be set.

No very likely I'd punt and go back to a laptop for everything.

The number of games available for the platform would beg to differ. I don't want a PSP, it doesn't do the things I need it to do—it does one thing well, games, and I'm not interested in carrying around a single-function device like that. I don't see why we should have functionality crippled for the sake of a full-faced screen.

Honestly I don't game that much. It just seems to me the Game machines are better optimized for games than any internet type table device every will be. The other problem I would have is wearing out keys on the keypad to support games.

Then keep the screen ratio the way it is and leave me with my d-pad.

Nope no can do. If Nokias IT's are to have a future they need to embrace what will be the common video formats real soon now.

Thin about it how many (informed) people are going out and buying a standard def television? Not many. The quality of the SD signals on these HD sets is not an issue, what is is the need to be prepared for the future. In this case the very near future.

Video though is only a small part of the equation. A large video area makes for a better device all around and allows better user interaction.

Uh, you still need something to bring down that frequency. This is a bad idea for a lot of reasons, not only because nobody uses shortwave.

Just do a direct conversion to baseband. I do have to reject the idea that nobody uses shortwave though. In any event the actual amount of technology you would have to add to the IT is very small space wise.



That's what the internet is for, and if those conditions are really that important to you, maybe you should just buy yourself a digital weather device of some kind, because I know highly-variable atmospheric reading from my IT are at about the bottom of my list of "needed features".

Well you seemed convinced that local conditions mean nothing to you. I can't do much about that.

And a decent solar device should have some sort of standard plug you can hook into.

Often unregulated.


Which would be where an E-series IT would come in, but I suspect that that's a ways off (if it ever comes).

Well it is obvious that there is a large amount of development going on with respect to these devices. One of these manufactures will hit all the right buttons and light a fire in the market place.

The Nokia N810 kinda shocked me in that I thought they had a good handle on what was wanted in the market place. Of course I could be wrong - time will tell there. If there is one thing that this thread has highlighted is that people want lots of memory in their tablets. From there onward the story gets more fragmented.

Dave

mlvj
2007-10-30, 16:12
I haven't read through all 9 pages *blush* but my wish list includes.

* better battery life. If apple can squeeze 20 hours out of their iphone thing, then surely... surely!!
* oled display to help with battery
* motion sensor - for real kinetic scrolling. I think that motion sensing will become a very standard part of the UI of all small devices; shake and tilt to scroll through photos, contacts, text messages, web pages; avoid all the fiddly scrolling with a pad.
* what would be really nice is an option for a built in or attachable proper gamepad - so we can actually PLAY mame etc games on the thing
* of course would want it to play all video formats that I find on the web - really annoys me that I can't listen to blake's seven on scifi channel in bed on my n800
* come with a nice email client
* come with a podcatcher that just gets the podcasts when they're available and files them away and discards the oldest, nice thing like that (maybe I could write that)
* retain ability to have loads of storage; I love the n800 two sd cards thing, can just wait for the fatter and fatter SD cards to roll on out.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-30, 23:51
I'm quite surprised that the N-series internet tablets have limited video support upon purchase.

Based on the maturity and capabilities of current libraries (take ffmpeg and libavcodec (http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/) for example), there is little reason why the majority of videos can't be played out-of-the-box.


}:^)~
YARR!!

RobMtl007
2007-10-31, 01:44
Greetings:

The one feature that would be a game changer for the Tablet Industry is:

- a portable LCD projection lens built into the N900.
Which means now you can project your video on a wall.

Also I would love to see a high quality webcam on the N900.
It must be able to capture video in low light conditions.

Regards Robert

aflegg
2007-10-31, 07:49
I'm quite surprised that the N-series internet tablets have limited video support upon purchase.

Based on the maturity and capabilities of current libraries (take ffmpeg and libavcodec (http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/) for example), there is little reason why the majority of videos can't be played out-of-the-box.

Apart from:


Unoptimised codecs relying on speedy computers
x86 rather than ARM optimised codecs
Codecs relying on floating point, rather than VFP or fixed point, calculations
Crippled video bandwidth


With a suitable amount of very hard work, mplayer (based on the two libraries above) can now play DivX/MP3 files much better than the built-in gstreamer implementation, but the benefits on one codec's optimisations don't necessarily apply to another.

Cheers,

Andrew

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-31, 14:15
@aflegg

Good point!

Being exclusively a developer on x86, I often forget that x86 code that heavily uses assembly for optimization isn't a straight port for non-x86 CPUs. You're 100% correct. Well structured C programs and other high-language programs would be much more easy to simply compile for the arm environment. High performance libraries (like libavcodec that I mentioned above) would likely rely on many low-level optimizations, that would take modification in key areas to run efficiently on the Nxxx series.

Assembly dialect translation should be a trivial matter for support's sake. I believe that the GNU assembler can already parse Intel/AT&T syntax and compile for different target architectures [GAS info here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Assembler)]. Granted, code performance wouldn't be the same, but at least the programs would be compilable and later can be tuned for performance.

By 'video bandwidth' are you referring to the cpu/memory/bus bottleneck limiting video output?


}:^)~
YARR!!

aflegg
2007-10-31, 14:36
By 'video bandwidth' are you referring to the cpu/memory/bus bottleneck limiting video output?

Yes, there's a well known design flaw by which the N8xx can't get video from the main memory to the display as quickly as the 770 can.

See the N800 & Video playback (http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2007-March/009133.html) thread on maemo-developers for more details.

As for using assembler-translation, I'm not sure that's necessary: I haven't tried, but I'm sure libavcodec will compile and run on Maemo, it just won't decode anywhere near realtime; except for where ssvb's already gone to the effort of optimising DivX/Xvid.

I'm sure he'd appreciate a hand, though ;-)

johnkzin
2007-10-31, 15:53
Given this news item from engadget today, I can take "video out" off of my list of wants/needs, as long as it's replaced by "driver support for this attachment":

http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/31/sewell-offers-up-usb-to-dvi-adapter-with-uxga-support/

(it even has support for DVI-A :) )

Texrat
2007-10-31, 16:38
LOL johnkzin... I love the negative comments there. :rolleyes:

johnkzin
2007-10-31, 16:55
Yup. I was just tickled that John Titor is one of the commentators. A review from the future! We should get him to tell us how the N8x0 series turns out :-)

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-31, 16:58
Yes, there's a well known design flaw by which the N8xx can't get video from the main memory to the display as quickly as the 770 can.

See the N800 & Video playback (http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2007-March/009133.html) thread on maemo-developers for more details.

Thanks for the link, it was a very informative read.

It's a shame that the performance issues are hardware related.

I'm sure he'd appreciate a hand, though ;-)
Heh. Yeah, it certainly sounds like it, but the prospect of 'low-level' optimizing on top of a system that has throttled performance due to incomplete drivers and a poorly designed system bus, isn't the least bit appealing to me. Apparently, he feels the same way.

The gates are open for the competition to walk all over Nokia. Let's hope that future hardware revisions correct this ridiculous cock-up.


}:^)~
YARR!!

ioan
2007-10-31, 17:32
wlan drivers that support injection... that will be good!

-ioan

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-01, 13:14
I have a question. Why is WiMAX support not on the top of everyone's list?

I would think WiMAX would be an obvious choice: an *ALWAYS* connected N900 extends its functionality and usefulness tremendously. A poll at tabletblog.com (http://tabletblog.com) suggests that an video-out is desired at least as much as WiMAX. To me, that's like wanting the unit to be coloured black over having longer running life.

So, is WiMAX your top feature? Why? Why not?



}:^)~
YARR!!

Capt'n Corrupt

ferjant
2007-11-01, 13:41
a SMS application that works like an instant messenger (like yahoo messenger, ICQ, aim). instead of using a phone (i spent so much money on text messaging on AT&T) might as well use tablets like my N800 to send SMS. so im hoping Nokia/linux will develop a software for free SMS on N900. jush wishing...

pixelseventy2
2007-11-01, 13:43
Why is WiMAX support not on the top of everyone's list?

because I live outside of any of the major cities in the UK and don't have WiMAX coverage, and I'm not expecting to get it any time in the next few years. We've got got HSDPA coverage though, and I've got ready access to a selection of HSDPA enabled handsets.

atmasphere
2007-11-01, 14:08
Faster CPU ... Faster memory swapping so we could really fly through and an even larger capacity battery.

I think the option of a SIM slot makes a lot of sense as well for dedicated mobile access without a phone... Wimax is interesting, but until it actually rolls out I don't care very much. I can get an always on connection now with my phone if I want -- it's not WiMax speed, but it gives me my email, web, IM etc.

WiMax is a 2H 2008 roll now with the Sprint / Clearwire team. at least beyond the existing pilots

atmasphere
2007-11-01, 14:09
a SMS application that works like an instant messenger (like yahoo messenger, ICQ, aim). instead of using a phone (i spent so much money on text messaging on AT&T) might as well use tablets like my N800 to send SMS. so im hoping Nokia/linux will develop a software for free SMS on N900. jush wishing...

Agree - especially when linked to your Nokia phone this should just work out of the box.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-01, 14:11
a SMS application that works like an instant messenger (like yahoo messenger, ICQ, aim). instead of using a phone (i spent so much money on text messaging on AT&T) might as well use tablets like my N800 to send SMS. so im hoping Nokia/linux will develop a software for free SMS on N900. jush wishing...

This oughta save you some dough: http://gizmosms.com/.


}:^)~
YARR!!

Capt'n Corrupt

atmasphere
2007-11-01, 14:16
I like that one, but there's no way to easily manage replies... send only.

johnkzin
2007-11-01, 14:49
Maybe because no one needs to ask for it. We all know it's coming.

ferjant
2007-11-01, 14:50
This oughta save you some dough: http://gizmosms.com/.


}:^)~
YARR!!

Capt'n Corrupt

that's neat. tried it but it embeds unnecessary text, kinda confusing. have you ever tried YehBA? http://www.yehba.com/home/

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-01, 15:22
that's neat. tried it but it embeds unnecessary text, kinda confusing. have you ever tried YehBA? http://www.yehba.com/home/

I've never SMS'd before in my life! I just thought I'd pass along a link that sprang into my conscious.

YehBA sounds interesting, though. It's even got one of those ker-azy dot-bomb names! If only there was Java support for the tablet, we could use software like this.


}:^)~
YARR!!

Capt'n Corrupt

Roc Ingersol
2007-11-01, 17:13
In the interest of focusing on the practicalities rather than technical specs:

How I want to use an n900

I should be able to take decent pictures. Nothing crazy-good; 3+MP with a nice lens would be fine. Vid-cap would be a bonus.

I should be able to leave my laptop at home more often. Honestly, the n800's already pretty close on this. Some straightforward horsepower advancement and it'll be a suitable replacement for whenever I don't need Windows.

I should be able to get rid of my PMP. Kagu/Canola are pretty close, but I do want more storage. Particularly with the recent improvements to video and the n810's promise of even more.

It should have more internal storage in general. It'd be nice if I wasn't lugging around an external disk or laptop for 20GB of data. This also feeds into the pics/pmp features. More storage makes those features far better. (no, a deck of SD cards does not count)

I want to do (more/better) handheld gaming. The n810 looks really close to 'good enough', particularly with the slide-out dpad/kb. But it'd help to have support of the new NGage platform, 3d drivers and a bit more horsepower.

I want to get rid of my phone. The n810 is small enough for me. GSM+edge is fine.

Barring that, I'd like to leave my phone in my pocket/backpack. E.g. use the NIT and BT to control the phone. Switching back and forth between devices is obnoxious. Particularly when I'm calling people in regards to data I have in front of me on the n800, or trying to keep contact information in sync.

Problems with the n800 I'd like to see fixed:

UI. It should be far more responsive and finger-friendly.
Charging. It should use the microUSB for charging.

kooda
2007-11-03, 23:27
Bigger display

A 5.6 inch display on N900 is a must.

Nokia can use N810 design and N800 size to fit in a 5.6 screen on it. It would be wonderful and would give 1024x480 resolution which is a must for a true internet device.



.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-03, 23:44
Bigger display

A 5.6 inch display on N900 is a must.



Indeed. This would be great. In fact, it would still basically fit (albeit tightly) the size of the current N810 at this size; a 5.6" screen would measure 4.8"x2.88" at the current aspect ratio. The increased size, as you mentioned, would increase the amount of visible pixels, and further improve the usefulness of the device.

Of course, this would be possible if there were *minimal* buttons on the face, a feature I strongly advocate. Since the entire screen is a giant programmable button, the interface should compensate for casual use.

Does anyone know who manufactures the Tablet's current screen? If we found a model number and make, perhaps we might find clues regarding the upcoming model and get some insight into what's planned for the N900. Certainly, transreflectivity is an upgrade from previous versions. Perhaps resolution is next......


}:^)~
YARR!!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-04, 00:28
On WiMAX..... Sorry for the late reply.....

I think WiMAX (or mobile WiMAX) is one of those things that is hard to imagine, until you have it. Of course, I *don't* have it, but I'm expecting that being ALWAYS connected at speeds high enough to download large files quickly or stream video is a MAJOR feature, without the hassle of having to find and connect to a wifi spot. Imagine having the same freedom as a cellular phone, but with internet access, moving or static, home or in the part. Wow.

I'm surprised that users aren't breaking down Nokia's doors for WiMAX. I can understand why some people that already have extended access via cellular data plans, or those that frequent metropolitan areas that are blanketed with WiFi may not be that dazzled by the prospect of anywhere-internet; you already have it. For the rest of us, however, it would be convenient, and is likely to have the reach of cellular in the very near future.

Here in Ontario, Bell (one of the major phone suppliers) already offers WiMAX (I'm assuming 802.16d -- no handoff to moving connections), to rural households that request broadband access. In addition Primus (another local provider) is testing WiMAX (for free, hardware included) in Hamilton (south of Toronto, west end of lake Ontario). Because of the WiMAX tower's reach, it's quick to cover a large area with internet access and it seems that providers are rushing to deliver this new service. I just hope that, like GSM, WiMAX allows you to roam to other providers.

If prices are reasonable and hardware available, VoIP services like skype, gizmo, vonage, etc, will flood the market with low cost (or free sans data) voice/video/text that are as comprehensive as cellular plans. Smaller providers will do the same (link2voip, call centric, didww, etc). Right now, I pay around 1 cent per minute outgoing SIP (to anywhere in Canada) and $5/mnth unlimited incoming for a phone number (or free if I'm calling another SIP phone). I've seen companies offering $20/mnth unlimited out for calling phones anywhere in North America. This means, at highest, I'll pay $25/mnth to talk as much as I want to *any* phone in North America. What's better is that it's pre-paid, so I *never* get billed. International rates are even more ridiculous: calling London costs only 2cents/min. Current cellular prices simply cannot compete with those rates.

I'm not saying that the N900 should be a phone, it wasn't meant to be, but having mobile WiMAX will keep us connected to the internet regardless of where we go. This includes all of the internet's functionality including the *option* of getting rid of our phones should we choose.

Surfing on the bus, on a train, outside of the theater, on a road trip, when lost, in the park, on the beach, etc, sounds like a killer feature to me.


}:^)~
YARR!!

Capt'n Corrupt

sabgvb
2007-11-04, 02:19
I think it should come in 2 versions 1 as a phone and one that is not. Also it should be able to use jvm and flash with the ability to play all formats including windows media.

GeneralAntilles
2007-11-04, 02:21
PLEASE don't take away my face buttons. If you want one of those, please step in line at the Apple Store. :rolleyes:

As per WIMAX: I have a 3g phone that's 'always on' with a cheap data plan. I don't need another one, thanks.

prosthetic
2007-11-04, 04:04
As per WIMAX: I have a 3g phone that's 'always on' with a cheap data plan. I don't need another one, thanks.

I'm in agreement here. I hope the phone will remain the primary bridge, and its bandwidth will simply continue to increase. Leave such mechanisms outside of the Nseries. That's how it was intended. There's a bigger plan here. Oh sure, I'm not saying they'll never be integrated, but we're just not ready for it.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-04, 13:03
I hope the phone will remain the primary bridge, and its bandwidth will simply continue to increase. Leave such mechanisms outside of the Nseries. There's a bigger plan here.

Leave it out? Not when the primary purpose of the device is internet connectivity and the mechanism that you're referring to extends the reach of internet connectivity, thus enhancing it. In this case, the 'bigger plan' would be less convenient, requiring a phone for the devices primary function in many places; a plan, but not a very good one.

I agree, though, that it's a little *too* early for WiMAX support. It's quickly approaching, though, and I hope it's in the N900 when the service is widespread.


}:^)~
YARR!!

Capt'n Corrupt

GeneralAntilles
2007-11-04, 13:36
I agree, though, that it's a little *too* early for WiMAX support. It's quickly approaching, though, and I hope it's in the N900 when the service is widespread.


To decrease battery life, increase costs, and possibly reduce other features for the "benefit" of WIMAX . . . no thanks, I have perfectly good, ubiquitous, fast, cheap internet available right now, I don't need it duplicated in the N900.

Now, if you want to have a version without and a version with, I'm ok with that.

To expand on the full-face screen: we don't have multitouch, and we're not likely to have it any time soon. I'd like to be able to play Quake on my IT without having to carry a bluetooth keyboard everywhere, as such, the full-faced screen is both a bad idea and a good way to reduce overall usability.

prosthetic
2007-11-04, 13:58
Leave it out? Not when the primary purpose of the device is internet connectivity and the mechanism that you're referring to extends the reach of internet connectivity, thus enhancing it. In this case, the 'bigger plan' would be less convenient, requiring a phone for the devices primary function in many places; a plan, but not a very good one.

And hence the reason for the short-range high-speed connectivity that exists now. For most, that's the "current" solution. For remote access, we have 1Mbps bluetooth to another device that potentially has "high-speed" internet connectivity. Sounds reasonable to me. Sure, everyone wants it all in one device. I guess that means every device should have such redundant capabilities. Hmm...

pixelseventy2
2007-11-04, 14:03
And hence the reason for the short-range high-speed connectivity that exists now. For most, that's the "current" solution. For remote access, we have 1Mbps bluetooth to another device that potentially has "high-speed" internet connectivity. Sounds reasonable to me. Sure, everyone wants it all in one device. I guess that means every device should have such redundant capabilities. Hmm...

~3Mbps for EDR isn't it? And I agree completely, mobile data technology is moving in leaps and bounds, and the networks themselves are moving in seemingly random directions sometimes. Do you want the N900 to support EDGE? UMTS? HSPDA? WiMAX? or to support BT and linking to a cheap(er) device that supports the data technology most appropriate to the part of the world you live in, and the network you connect via.

Now, if WiMAX ever makes it to where I live (without being superseded) then I'm sure I'll want it, but until then I'm more than happy with BT and a phone

prosthetic
2007-11-04, 14:45
~3Mbps for EDR isn't it?

Yes, you're right. Sorry, I forgot the N810 supported BT 2.0. 3Mbps.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-04, 15:07
To expand on the full-face screen: we don't have multitouch, and we're not likely to have it any time soon. I'd like to be able to play Quake on my IT without having to carry a bluetooth keyboard everywhere, as such, the full-faced screen is both a bad idea and a good way to reduce overall usability.

But we *do* have a pullout keypad with cursor and keys (N810).

So, if this (the pullout keypad) is to be a feature on the N900, then a full-face screen is neither a 'bad idea' nor a 'good way to reduce overall usability' as you'll have more than enough buttons on the keypad to keep you satiated; much more than could ever be comfortably crammed on device front.


I'd like to be able to play Quake on my IT without having to carry a bluetooth keyboard everywhere

I have very similar views regarding mobile internet.. More on that soon..



}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

GeneralAntilles
2007-11-04, 15:20
But we *do* have a pullout keypad with cursor and keys (N810).


Another feature I'd personally like to see left out of the N900, especially as it seems to mean the lack of dual SD slots.


I have very similar views regarding mobile internet.. More on that soon..


Which is just wonderful for you, but no IT device can manage to replace a dedicated cellphone for a lot of reasons which I (and others) have been over in this and other threads many times. Suffice to say that battery life, size (and ergonomics), access (WIMAX will never have the coverage of GSM), and durability all factor into my desire to have a separate phone.

I don't want the convergance device everybody seems to think would be cool. The technology just isn't up to snuff for that yet (and wont be for many years).

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-04, 15:38
Let me start out by saying, I'm not set on WiMAX per se. I intended WiMAX to refer to standardized wireless (and mobile) internet. It just seems as though WiMAX is heading in this direction. In the future I'll respond with "mobile internet."

I hope the phone will remain the primary bridge, and its bandwidth will simply continue to increase.

...from a previous post.

And hence the reason for the short-range high-speed connectivity that exists now. For most, that's the "current" solution. For remote access, we have 1Mbps bluetooth to another device that potentially has "high-speed" internet connectivity. Sounds reasonable to me.

Of course, until you remember that the thread and the conversation is geared towards a "future" solution, and not the "current" one.

Requiring a phone to provide mobile internet access to a device (N900) thats sole purpose is to connect to the internet especially if widespread mobile internet technologies exist, is really, really silly. I'd rather my mobile internet device have the ability to connect to the internet without requiring external devices.

For those that have the modern phones with data plans (I've already mentioned) this feature likely won't be as big deal to you; you already have mobile internet. But the jury's still deciding weather requiring a phone for mobile internet is superior to having the capability (WiMAX or other) built into the tablet itself.


Sure, everyone wants it all in one device. I guess that means every device should have such redundant capabilities. Hmm...

Are you being sarcastic? Many devices *already* have redundant capabilities (phones/tablets included). It just so happens that some perform their capabilities better than others.

The devices value to an individual is determined by how closely the device meets the users needs.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-04, 15:50
~3Mbps for EDR isn't it? And I agree completely, mobile data technology is moving in leaps and bounds, and the networks themselves are moving in seemingly random directions sometimes. Do you want the N900 to support EDGE? UMTS? HSPDA? WiMAX? or to support BT and linking to a cheap(er) device that supports the data technology most appropriate to the part of the world you live in, and the network you connect via.


Good point.

I should not have stated WiMAX specifically, but "standardized mobile data" with the ubiquity of GSM. In this case, yes, I would like at least one standard supported on the N900 if it remains a viable, cost-effective solution.

I agree. In the event that the market remains fragmented with different mobile data technologies, then an external device (or upgrade slot) would be the most appropriate solution. Future consumer devices will probably predict this trend.


Now, if WiMAX ever makes it to where I live (without being superseded) then I'm sure I'll want it, but until then I'm more than happy with BT and a phone

Of course. I would be too! :)


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

GeneralAntilles
2007-11-04, 16:08
I should not have stated WiMAX specifically, but "standardized mobile data" with the ubiquity of GSM. In this case, yes, I would like at least one standard supported on the N900 if it remains a viable, cost-effective solution.


Then the N900 isn't what you should be discussing. The mobile data market outside of handset data is just now emerging, so a solution an ubiquitous does not and will not exist in the lifetime of the N900. Because of this, WIMAX on the device is mostly just going to be a waste of time and money.

Scope and timeframe are important issues. Yes, ubiquitous mobile data is a good idea, and, yes, I'd like to see it implemented in future ITs—but not before the market gets to a point where it isn't going to be more than a fancy decoration (especially for those of us with data plans).

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-04, 16:12
As I stated above: I intended WiMAX to refer to standardized wireless (and mobile) internet. It just seems as though WiMAX is heading in this direction. In the future I'll respond with "mobile internet."


Which is just wonderful for you, but no IT device can manage to replace a dedicated cellphone for a lot of reasons which I (and others) have been over in this and other threads many times. Suffice to say that battery life, size (and ergonomics), access (WIMAX will never have the coverage of GSM), and durability all factor into my desire to have a separate phone.

You misinterpreted my response and jumped to an incorrect conclusion. I'm not asking to 'replace' the mobile phone (although personally, I would likely do this). I'm simply saying that like you: I wouldn't want to lug around an external bluetooth keyboard to play quake *and* I wouldn't want to lug around an external bluetooth phone to connect to the internet with my mobile internet device. Perhaps today, but certainly not in a future device, if standardized mobile data access exists.


I don't want the convergance device everybody seems to think would be cool. The technology just isn't up to snuff for that yet (and wont be for many years).

This isn't about convergence directly, but about internal mobile internet connectivity on a speculative device.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-04, 16:25
Then the N900 isn't what you should be discussing. The mobile data market outside of handset data is just now emerging, so a solution an ubiquitous does not and will not exist in the lifetime of the N900. Because of this, WIMAX on the device is mostly just going to be a waste of time and money.

This isn't a valid argument. You need to state the timeframe of the N900 and the timeframe of WiMAX to add much needed cogency to this argument.


Scope and timeframe are important issues. Yes, ubiquitous mobile data is a good idea, and, yes, I'd like to see it implemented in future ITs—but not before the market gets to a point where it isn't going to be more than a fancy decoration (especially for those of us with data plans).

I agree 100% with this. Since this is a speculative thread with no hard N900 release dates, I think we're on the same page.



}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

GeneralAntilles
2007-11-04, 17:21
I agree 100% with this. Since this is a speculative thread with no hard N900 release dates, I think we're on the same page.


I think, now, we come to the basis of our disagreement over mobile internet—semantics:

The N900 is probably coming around Q2 2008, too early for good WIMAX coverage. Because of this, I don't think it's appropriate to discuss WIMAX as a feature for the mainstream N900 model (a Sprint-branded specialty model might be something different). Perhaps "future NITs" should be substituted here.

As we've already established, WIMAX hasn't become the ubiquitous standard (and with recent shake-ups in Sprint, it might never), so "mobile internet" is a much better term.

The mobile date features you're discussing go beyond the N900's timeframe, this is where most of my disagreement with you arose.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-04, 18:22
I think, now, we come to the basis of our disagreement over mobile internet—semantics:

The N900 is probably coming around Q2 2008, too early for good WIMAX coverage. Because of this, I don't think it's appropriate to discuss WIMAX as a feature for the mainstream N900 model (a Sprint-branded specialty model might be something different). Perhaps "future NITs" should be substituted here.

As we've already established, WIMAX hasn't become the ubiquitous standard (and with recent shake-ups in Sprint, it might never), so "mobile internet" is a much better term.

The mobile date features you're discussing go beyond the N900's timeframe, this is where most of my disagreement with you arose.

Agreed. In hindsight, I should have paid more attention to my first post (namely: step 4 out of 5, and realistic) when speculating the N900's future "mobile internet" capabilities. Although I'd like to see it, I agree, that it's likely not realistic to expect it in late 2008.

In any case, I still love you, man! :)

There's a least one company manufacturing Wi-Fi radios in 2GB SD cards (http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2007/10/eyefi_launches_2gb_sd_card.html), so it would be nice if the N900 will have an upgrade slot (SD or other) and cards to provide additional connectivity options (GSM, WiMAX, WiBro, etc) for those that want more coverage and/or convergence!



}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-05, 03:22
I think I'll have to second most here wishing dual full-SD support in the N900.

There have been 32GB SDHC's announced implying future potential to store a whopping 64GB with a dual setup. Even a single card at this capacity would be a great boon to the already amazing tablet.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

icerabbit
2007-11-05, 15:21
(without having read all the pages)

On the very top of my list are:

* full USB support
I don't care about the implemented connector size or shape per se as long as there is an adapter to get it to a regular USB port size. Though in my opinion, there is enough room in the thicker part of the N800 to stick a regular USB port. It is a matter of priorities.
I want to be able to attach and use:
- a USB flash drive
- a USB printer
- a media card reader dongle
- USB GPS receiver

* better camera
Either place a 2 or 3 MP autofocus lens on the back face, or place a better camera in the the pop-up rotating camera.

* regular SD card slot

* improved screen for outdoor visibility

and other hardware improvements like considerably faster CPU (not marginally faster), double the ROM & RAM at least. Eliminate video bottleneck.

I have not been able to try the keyboard on the N810, but I would probably like that slide out keyboard in my next tablet. With the keyboard optimized for those with slightly bigger fingers. Right now it looks tight ... but it could very well be that regardless I could only type with one or two fingers.

pixelseventy2
2007-11-05, 16:33
I have not been able to try the keyboard on the N810, but I would probably like that slide out keyboard in my next tablet. With the keyboard optimized for those with slightly bigger fingers. Right now it looks tight ... but it could very well be that regardless I could only type with one or two fingers.

It's not intended for touch typing. You're only supposed to be typing with 2 digits, your thumbs. Although apparently the top row is too close to the screen to be very usable. I'm convinced that Nokia designers must shave their thumbs, as a number of their sliders have the same issue

traveller
2007-11-05, 16:48
It's not intended for touch typing. You're only supposed to be typing with 2 digits, your thumbs. Although apparently the top row is too close to the screen to be very usable. I'm convinced that Nokia designers must shave their thumbs, as a number of their sliders have the same issue

I'd like to see a Psion 3 style device. That had relatively large keys but the whole device could still fit in a shirt pocket. (Picture on wikipedia).
You could type with your thumbs standing up or put it on a table and type with a few more fingers.

icerabbit
2007-11-05, 17:23
It's not intended for touch typing. You're only supposed to be typing with 2 digits, your thumbs. Although apparently the top row is too close to the screen to be very usable. I'm convinced that Nokia designers must shave their thumbs, as a number of their sliders have the same issue

I am fully aware that one is not going to touch type on a device that size.

It's just that, like traveller, I used to have some clamshell PDA / organizer (it wasn't an A-brand, so I forgot the name) and the keys were positive keys and spaced out a little; so that one really could feel the keys and you could clearly tap / press a single key. It was more like a miniature keyboard with actual keys and tactile than a flat continuous phone keypad. Think earlier Nokia 9xx0 communicator style. I also had a Targus thumb-pad on a Palm Vx and I could use its separated button keyboard fine. I'm just a little worried about that keyboard I see in the N810 image.

But, again, I admit that I have not used any of the most recent flat continuous keyboards ... and I understand it is a style thing too.

Seems at least some people are satisfied with the keypad on the 9500 communicator, so I'll just wait for more reviews on the N810 before I talk again about keyboard wishes ;)

pixelseventy2
2007-11-05, 17:41
@traveller, @icerabbit

I, too, have used and loved the keyboard (and everything) about the psions, but fantastic though they are, I couldn't walk down the street while sending a message, or lounge comfortably in a chair and use one. they worked best when sitting at a desk, where you could place it on a hard surface and type naturally.

The only time I ever do this with my n800, I use a bluetooth keyboard, which is even better to type on than a psion. So for me, the idea of a slide-out keyboard is perfect, and I don't want the slide-and-tilt that a lot of people are asking for too. But I will have to test the spacing on the top row before I part with my hard-earned.

For some reason I never got on with the communicators. Probably because I first played with one after using a windows mobile device extensively, I just instinctively expected them to be touchscreen

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-05, 17:49
I certainly hope that Nokia is paying close attention to this thread! With today's announcement of the "GPhone -- Open Handset Alliance", there are going to be a SLEW of hardware manufacturers providing many different handsets all gunning for a rich internet experience; the tablets specialty. The platform apparently runs Linux (w/ java), and will be completely open.

Of notable interest, NVidia is part of the alliance, no doubt to offer a mobile solutions for accelerated graphics. With a standardized open platform, the industry could easily see rich 3D applications/games/user-interfaces with openGL support. Is ATI to follow?

Here's a link to the article: GPhone is Official, A Software Platform for Cellphones (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/google-phone/gphone-is-official-+-a-software-platform-for-cellphones-318862.php)

What do you think the N900 needs (software and hardware) to compete favourably in lieu of this upcoming onslaught of fully functional internet devices?



}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

GeneralAntilles
2007-11-05, 17:53
What do you think the N900 needs (software and hardware) to compete favourably in lieu of this upcoming onslaught of fully functional internet devices?


An OMAP 3430 with full driver support. :P

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-05, 18:06
An OMAP 3430 with full driver support. :P

Haha.. Tell me about it! I'm honestly shocked that the MBX chipset *still* isn't utilized.

To be honest, I think that if the GPhone platform really *is* open, it shouldn't be difficult to integrate it (libraries, base applications, etc) into the maemo environment, or replace maemo altogether.

I think the tablet needs very little to be a big contender in this race. It is such a balanced mix of good technology (the Nxxx screen is a huge deal). However, it needs 3D driver support, a faster bus (better video performance, etc), and more internal storage.

Also, lacking GSM means that many will pass over the tablet to purchase close substitutes (devices that can both surf the net and act as a phone).

Nokia apparently isn't a part of the alliance. I wonder what their market response will be.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Karel Jansens
2007-11-05, 19:18
@traveller, @icerabbit

I, too, have used and loved the keyboard (and everything) about the psions, but fantastic though they are, I couldn't walk down the street while sending a message, or lounge comfortably in a chair and use one. they worked best when sitting at a desk, where you could place it on a hard surface and type naturally.

It depends: The Series 3xx were perfectly usable in thumbs only mode; the fives a little less so.

icerabbit
2007-11-05, 20:41
@ Karel "Location: Belgium, but trying to escape"

Moet ik toch eens om glimlachen ;)

johnkzin
2007-11-05, 21:11
To be honest, I think that if the GPhone platform really *is* open, it shouldn't be difficult to integrate it (libraries, base applications, etc) into the maemo environment, or replace maemo altogether.



As I said over in the gPhone thread:

It's too soon to bet the farm on Android by replacing Maemo. But, Nokia would be prudent to join the alliance, and then adopt parts of Android.

A VERY good first step would be: port the android libraries over to maemo, add java, and whatever other infrastructure is necessary for running android apps on maemo. Then, no matter what applications get deployed for android, Nokia automatically benefits from it.


(warning, pun follows)

Then package it up, and call the package "Replicant" (an android emulator).

Karel Jansens
2007-11-05, 21:38
@ Karel "Location: Belgium, but trying to escape"

Moet ik toch eens om glimlachen ;)

My smile is rapidly evaporating. I've digging tunnels since october 2005, and they keep caving in.

Wizard69
2007-11-06, 07:56
I think I'll have to second most here wishing dual full-SD support in the N900.

There have been 32GB SDHC's announced implying future potential to store a whopping 64GB with a dual setup. Even a single card at this capacity would be a great boon to the already amazing tablet.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt
The one thing that just blows my mind is nokia delivering the 810 with practically no secondary storage. The minimal for that sort of device should be 16 GB built in. Given the lack of two slots on this device it is unforgivable.

In any event I suspect that in a very short period of time 64 GB will be considered a base machine for these devices. Not that I expect hte nokia N800 series to be around long. Nokia has missed the boat on this one.

Dave

Wizard69
2007-11-06, 08:10
I certainly hope that Nokia is paying close attention to this thread! With today's announcement of the "GPhone -- Open Handset Alliance", there are going to be a SLEW of hardware manufacturers providing many different handsets all gunning for a rich internet experience; the tablets specialty. The platform apparently runs Linux (w/ java), and will be completely open.

All this along with the development of OpenMoko means the tablets will have a tough future if they don't get up to speed with the rest of the worlds hardware. By this I mean the N800 series needs more than just Wifi communications. It needs access to the Cell networks and other up and coming technologies. It also needs better video hardware an a memory system that really is modern.

Of notable interest, NVidia is part of the alliance, no doubt to offer a mobile solutions for accelerated graphics. With a standardized open platform, the industry could easily see rich 3D applications/games/user-interfaces with openGL support. Is ATI to follow?

The possibilities are there but don't discount the possibility of outfits like Qualcom delivering some really sweet chipsets. There is a very strong possibility that some of the first devices delivered could have ARM processors approaching 1GHz.


Here's a link to the article: GPhone is Official, A Software Platform for Cellphones (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/google-phone/gphone-is-official-+-a-software-platform-for-cellphones-318862.php)

What do you think the N900 needs (software and hardware) to compete favourably in lieu of this upcoming onslaught of fully functional internet devices?

This is easy.

The unit needs to thing out but maintain a form factor that is pocketable. Nokia needs to get serious about RAM and Flash storage. They also need to clean up the video system. Part of that cleaned up video would lead to a HD capable screen.





}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-06, 18:33
All this along with the development of OpenMoko means the tablets will have a tough future if they don't get up to speed with the rest of the worlds hardware. By this I mean the N800 series needs more than just Wifi communications. It needs access to the Cell networks and other up and coming technologies. It also needs better video hardware an a memory system that really is modern.

Ari Jaaski has mentioned in his blog, that the Tablet will be getting WiMAX support. It seems as though a number of companies are rallying behind this technology, and if popularized, will make mobile internet just as reachable as cellular. So I think that Nokia is heading in a good direction so far as future devices are concerned.

The rest of the hardware is very balanced, IMO. Any upgrades (besides the radio) will enhance the experience, but not necessarily introduce new possibilities.

I still think that the tablet could use more storage, though. As of today, it appears to be its Achilles heel. Sacrificing a bit of thickness would be a welcome modification if it increases the potential capacity to 64GB.


The possibilities are there but don't discount the possibility of outfits like Qualcom delivering some really sweet chipsets. There is a very strong possibility that some of the first devices delivered could have ARM processors approaching 1GHz.

Certainly, there will be much competition on the horizon in terms of processing speeds which should gradually lower prices. Of course, Nokia can (and probably will) implement the software compatible OMAP 3410/3420/3430 in future devices. The current OMAP 2420 is a little work-horse that can natively be clocked to 1GHz, though battery consumption is likely a reason why it's currently limited to 400MHz. Perhaps we'll see proper driver support, bigger batteries, and increased speeds in the future...

The unit needs to thing out but maintain a form factor that is pocketable. Nokia needs to get serious about RAM and Flash storage. They also need to clean up the video system. Part of that cleaned up video would lead to a HD capable screen.

Agreed. In addition, I believe that the Maemo platform should *prepare* for possible integration with other technologies. This includes pressure to acquire native java support. Since the 'Android' SDK beta will be released in 6 days, it gives developers plenty of time to mitigate future incompatibilities without sacrificing the current platform.

The sheer hype that follows google around almost guarantees a boatload of development on the new Android platform. It would be a shame if the future tablet wasn't compatible with the upcoming applications. I wouldn't be surprised if the Maemo software library looked tiny compared to the upcoming Android library in a very short span of time.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-06, 18:48
As I said over in the gPhone thread:

It's too soon to bet the farm on Android by replacing Maemo. But, Nokia would be prudent to join the alliance, and then adopt parts of Android.

A VERY good first step would be: port the android libraries over to maemo, add java, and whatever other infrastructure is necessary for running android apps on maemo. Then, no matter what applications get deployed for android, Nokia automatically benefits from it.


(warning, pun follows)

Then package it up, and call the package "Replicant" (an android emulator).

Agreed. Considering that the stack is supposed to be open (how open is still under debate) *and* running atop linux, porting should be a relatively painless operation. Java, on the other hand, could be trickier (I believe the compiler/interpreter is closed, though I could be wrong -- I know very little of Java).

I'm looking forward to looking over the Android SDK.



}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

mediathreat
2007-11-08, 12:59
i dont know if this has been posted, but a VIDEO OUT port would be awesome on the n900 - this device screams to to be portable demonstration device.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-08, 17:47
i dont know if this has been posted, but a VIDEO OUT port would be awesome on the n900 - this device screams to to be portable demonstration device.

Indeed. This would be a great feature. Of course, it should be possible with USB-OTG given the right equipment. I know there are USB-VGA/USB-DVI devices out there. This device (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/06/08/add_a_monitor_using_usb/index.html), for example uses USB to add a second monitor to your PC. The performance isn't great, but at a resolution of 800x600 with a reduced colour palette the performance was adequate; certainly enough for quick presentations/demonstrations/video. Of course, the internals will determine additional bottlenecks, reducing speed.

Does anyone know what the N800/N810's USB throughput is? I'm not sure how one would accurately measure this, but it would be interesting to see how close it gets to the theoretical 480Mbps spec. :P How about bluetooth or wi-fi?

I think video out is a great idea. I personally would rather use USB/Bluetooth as a connectivity method, rather than adding more ports to the device. Of course, this is assuming that performance is good. With new portable LED projectors (http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/sony_develops_smallest_led_projector.php), it would turn into a killer presentation machine, allowing you to carry the remote (Nxxx) with you, while you present.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

ArnimS
2007-11-13, 06:03
Indeed. This would be a great feature. Of course, it should be possible with USB-OTG given the right equipment. I know there are USB-VGA/USB-DVI devices out there.

Nice suggestion - this would be pretty killer for a lot of potential users.

Hey, does anybody with some php skillz want to put together a webpage with a table of all the features mentioned here, and a voting mechanism? If it's highly visible/promoted, i'm sure it'd be possible to collect a few hundred votes. This would provide a quantifiable resource to measure interest in different features. (understanding of course that some of these are mutually exclusive.)

As for my pet feature (gaming controls on both sides of display) i have to concede that they would probably be a kiss of death given consumer design-expectations we're seeing on these devices nowadays. The N810 and new Apple designs really convinced me of this. Would there be enough interest for three n9x0 form factors? 1) N800-like 2) N810-like 3) Gp2x-like?

If Nokia chooses not to embrace that market segment with the ITOS/linux platform, some users may prefer the the Gp2x-based Craigulator (http://www.gp32x.com/board/lofiversion/index.php/t38155-1650.html) which could dominate the portable linux homebrew/emulation scene in 2008, while also providing debian-arm apps, wifi and 800x480 display.

To whomever posted the blender sketch for the touchpad/analog circular dpad, nice design - might be expensive or impossible to produce though. Whatever nokia delivers as the successor to the tiny press-to-click 4-way dpad, let's hope it's superior. The sliding spring-centered analog thumbpad (see youtube link i posted earlier) could really be perfect.

----
Re. SD gripes: ... for some people nothing will be enough will it? An N810 and 10 miniSd cards allows 80 GB of swappable media while your persistent data goes on internal 2GB. With battery-powered USB drives, there's practically no limit, is there? We know you have hundreds of gigs of media on your pc, and I am very proud of you. But please read this slowly: it won't all fit on any pocketable device.

Re. HD Video: ... given TI's OMAP 3430 capabilities, HD video will be hardware accelerated, as long as it's encoded to proper format.

Re. OpenGL: ... My feeling is: competition will be too tough in 2008 for Nokia to not include this on the N9x0. Anybody feel like placing a small bet against this?

jimmyh
2007-11-13, 12:54
Another vote for hsdpa/ 3g capability in the future tablets. Cell data technology is constantly improving and becoming more and more widespread. Leaving it out of a device where mobile internet connectivity is the selling point makes no sense. True you can connect to a phone but some telcos dont allow integration of voice and data into a single plan. then you will need to swap sim cards in and out? or carry yet another phone? not practical.

other wishes are:

*much more capable video performance

*better cpu tecnology that allows for near desktop quality applications and browser experience.

*3d gaming support

*ball type mouse support

*better battery life

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-13, 13:51
Hey, does anybody with some php skillz want to put together a webpage with a table of all the features mentioned here, and a voting mechanism? If it's highly visible/promoted, i'm sure it'd be possible to collect a few hundred votes. This would provide a quantifiable resource to measure interest in different features. (understanding of course that some of these are mutually exclusive.)


I've thought about this. I was thinking of going through all the posts, creating a spreadsheet and tabulating votes for the different feature requests. Putting them in graphical form would also be very nice. Hmm.. I could potentially hack together some PHP/Perl, but I'll check if there's an online resource that does this before I entertain the notion.



As for my pet feature (gaming controls on both sides of display) i have to concede that they would probably be a kiss of death given consumer design-expectations we're seeing on these devices nowadays. The N810 and new Apple designs really convinced me of this. Would there be enough interest for three n9x0 form factors? 1) N800-like 2) N810-like 3) Gp2x-like?


I agree that with simple modifications, the N900 can be a gaming rig. The idea of carrying around a library of Snes/Gen ROMS is truly exciting; the thought of playing shining force/final fantasy tactics on my N900 is drool-worthy.

I think that the gaming controls can be relegated to the slide-out keypad. It's already got a game-like setup. All it needs is durable raised keys that can *act* as gaming buttons in addition to their keypad roles. The d-pad can also be improved to take on the potential use as a game machine.

In this case, there's no need to kill the tablet's brand, but opens it up as a gaming unit.

Does anybody know how the N810 fares using the keypad as a gamepad?



If Nokia chooses not to embrace that market segment with the ITOS/linux platform, some users may prefer the the Gp2x-based Craigulator (http://www.gp32x.com/board/lofiversion/index.php/t38155-1650.html) which could dominate the portable linux homebrew/emulation scene in 2008, while also providing debian-arm apps, wifi and 800x480 display.


Thanks for the link. I'm quite interested in learning about the software.



To whomever posted the blender sketch for the touchpad/analog circular dpad, nice design - might be expensive or impossible to produce though. Whatever nokia delivers as the successor to the tiny press-to-click 4-way dpad, let's hope it's superior. The sliding spring-centered analog thumbpad (see youtube link i posted earlier) could really be perfect.


Haha. That was me. :D It's true, it may be an expensive setup (I'm not gifted in the dark art of engineering), but a novel idea in the least. I also like your "slide pad".

Whatever the case is, I hope for at least *one* solution.


Re. SD gripes: ... for some people nothing will be enough will it? An N810 and 10 miniSd cards allows 80 GB of swappable media while your persistent data goes on internal 2GB. With battery-powered USB drives, there's practically no limit, is there? We know you have hundreds of gigs of media on your pc, and I am very proud of you. But please read this slowly: it won't all fit on any pocketable device.


Well said. This is the primary reason that I'm choosing the N810 over the N800. I doubt I will ever need more than 8GB of storage at a time. How many videos/songs can you listen to simultaneously?

Having to carry around an extra *tiny* easily wallet-able card is not so bad. How many videos can you watch at once? How many songs do you need at any one time? An 8G card should be enough to hold quite a few full length videos and another 8G a LARGE library of audio.

It would be nice to have more internal slots, but it's not a deal breaker IMO. In any case, the capacities of the removable media is only going to increase in the near future.



Re. HD Video: ... given TI's OMAP 3430 capabilities, HD video will be hardware accelerated, as long as it's encoded to proper format.


Agreed. It seems as if this will be the natural choice for the N900. Let's hope that there is adequate driver support for the Omaps DSPs. It would be a shame for software developers to have to fall back on the processors clock rate to 'accelerate' software.


Re. OpenGL: ... My feeling is: competition will be too tough in 2008 for Nokia to not include this on the N9x0. Anybody feel like placing a small bet against this?

Agreed. I'm really hoping to see support, and it seems obvious; but so did GL on the current platform.

jmancine
2007-11-13, 16:09
My vote is for GSM capabilities and a SIM slot.

Also, it would be really neat to develop a wireless BT headset that actually is part of the device. Something that stows away in a slot (like the stylus) and can be removed for voip/cell calls. It would also charge while docked in the n900.

johnkzin
2007-11-13, 16:48
If they add GSM capability, I'd want it to be on the following terms:

a) completely unlocked -- no carrier deals, no carrier limitations; all or nothing

b) not at the expense of WiMAX. If you can't fit Wifi + BluetoothDUN + WiMAX + GSM into the device, then drop GSM.

c) I'd also put BluetoothPAN as a higher priority than GSM. Get Wifi + BluetoothDUN + BluetoothPAN + WiMAX working before even looking at adding GSM ... and only add GSM if you can do it without sacrificing any of those capabilities.

d) GSM service MUST be optional. Nothing on the device must _depend_opon_ nor _assume_ the presence of a GSM service. The only exception would be if they include an actual "phone" application (independent of Skype, SIP, and GoogleTalk) -- obviously that can be dependent upon the presence of GSM.

e) I don't know if this goes without saying or not, but I don't want it to only be HSDPA/HSUPA. There are some carriers and areas for GSM that are still EDGE only (might be some that are still GPRS only for all I know). It should be capable of "down-shifting" to those speeds/protocols if the faster ones aren't available.

GeneralAntilles
2007-11-13, 17:24
GSM would just open up a whole world of nasties that would kill the platform's appeal. FCC certifications for the cellular radio, carrier contracts, hardware compromises, expense. . . . It's a bad idea and I don't like it. :P

bakerbaker
2007-11-14, 14:02
the only thing id like to see on a n900 is a much stronger cpu. id like to be able to start/run applications faster than the 3 yr old palm tx and use firefox just as quick or quicker than safari on the iphone, this includes ajax based sites and flash video.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-14, 19:22
the only thing id like to see on a n900 is a much stronger cpu. id like to be able to start/run applications faster than the 3 yr old palm tx and use firefox just as quick or quicker than safari on the iphone, this includes ajax based sites and flash video.

I think that you actually want faster applications and not necessarily a faster processor. I feel that the tablets are currently more than capable of efficient, responsive applications. Bloated code prevents this in the majority of situations.

I agree fully that faster cpu speeds would be better, but I think that Nokia should optimize core applications (especially the browser). Adobe did it with the flash for the tablets, why can't Nokia for their own platform?


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

TA-t3
2007-11-14, 22:39
the only thing id like to see on a n900 is a much stronger cpu. id like to be able to start/run applications faster than the 3 yr old palm tx [..]
They start faster on PDAs because on PDAs the applications are in memory already. On the TX it's non-volatile memory, but still. PDAs use memory as storage, and PalmOS has execute-in-place. That's why such PDAs can start applications instantly. The N800 must first copy the application code from storage (even from flash it takes some time) to memory before it can be run.

If you want to compare the speed properly then you must leave the application running on the N800 and then measure how long it takes to de-iconize it. Because, this is very close to what a PDA actually does when you 'launch' it.

johnkzin
2007-11-15, 21:42
An example of a formfactor I've talked about before:

http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=95505#post95505

wls
2007-11-15, 22:10
I see a lot of unrealistic requests so I thought I would add my very realistic requests for the next version.

More color depth. Increase from 64k to 128k or 256k color screen.
No change to design required just put in a better screen, everyone says the iphone screen looks better than the N800 and it is because the colors are better.

Include an accellerometer to determine how it is held and rotate screen accordingly. If the iphone and touch can do it why not us?

I have to agree with those that say we need the D-pad out where we can use it- just put it on the right side though.

Get a full working Java implemeted! Jeesh that's a no brainer.

Write a graphics library to use the hardware 3d functions. why not?

tommie
2007-11-16, 00:02
Number ONE thing I'd want is a Desktop DOCKING CHARGER...

sure inductive charging is cool but WTF.. I mean wouldn't it be easy to provide 2 contacts for a Docking station??? KISS method here??? all the other "inductive" BULLCRAP would take away from the other stuff we all want ya know??? money talks and bullcrap walks. I'm a NUTS AND BOLTS kinda guy.. and all my devices MUST HAVEa dockin station for charging.. the wimpy charging port is suspect to wear and failure in my opinion.. planned obsolescense??

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-16, 02:50
Number ONE thing I'd want is a Desktop DOCKING CHARGER...

sure inductive charging is cool but WTF.. I mean wouldn't it be easy to provide 2 contacts for a Docking station??? KISS method here??? all the other "inductive" BULLCRAP would take away from the other stuff we all want ya know??? money talks and bullcrap walks. I'm a NUTS AND BOLTS kinda guy.. and all my devices MUST HAVEa dockin station for charging.. the wimpy charging port is suspect to wear and failure in my opinion.. planned obsolescense??

Eeeeeasy big fella...

TA-t3
2007-11-16, 17:31
Docking station? A cradle? Oh please, let it never happen.. I've got lots of cradles, for two sorts of PDAs, and for phones. You know what? They all suck. It's a braindead concept. To be specific: The lean-to multi-connectors they all use. They _always_ start to work badly after a short time. The worst is when you depend on one to charge your device.. as I need to with my Palm PDAs. And my non-Nokia mobile phone (my other phone, a Nokia, is fine, because Nokia went for proper charging plugs years ago, bless them). Now, if that "docking station" used a standard charging plug it would presumably be ok. But that's not a docking station then, is it? Anyway, even the tiny, agreeably flimsy small charger pins Nokia use these days are infinitely better than any cradle connector I've ever seen.

johnkzin
2007-11-16, 18:29
I mostly agree with TA-t3, except that the connector should be USB. Charge via USB-client cable should be the only form of charging these days. Device specific docking station/cradles and device or vendor specific charging cables are just asinine.

And, as TA-t3 said: If they want to put it in the shape of a cradle/dock, sure go ahead. As long as the plug itself is a standard USB-client of some sort (micro, mini, whatever).

TA-t3
2007-11-16, 18:51
Charging through USB is also fine, agreed. That's one of those sane plugs that actually works (unlike those cradle multi-connectors..)

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-16, 22:03
I mostly agree with TA-t3, except that the connector should be USB. Charge via USB-client cable should be the only form of charging these days. Device specific docking station/cradles and device or vendor specific charging cables are just asinine.

And, as TA-t3 said: If they want to put it in the shape of a cradle/dock, sure go ahead. As long as the plug itself is a standard USB-client of some sort (micro, mini, whatever).

I third (fourth, or even fifth) the idea that the N900 should be charged via micro-USB, but likely for a different reason. The reduction or connection ports means that more space is available for internal gadgetry.

Perhaps the extra space could be used for a full SD, or even a second..... Perhaps another radio, or a better camera...


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

johnkzin
2007-11-16, 22:16
Capt'n: I'm not sure how that works with OTG (how does the USB port sometimes negotiate itself as host vs client vs just-give-me-juice in different situations). It might work to just have the one connector for all 3 ... but I sort of have this feeling that it's cleaner to have 2 ports (1 for OTG and host, one for client/charging).

THat's why I didn't consider it as a space saving issue.

Karel Jansens
2007-11-16, 22:48
I mostly agree with TA-t3, except that the connector should be USB. Charge via USB-client cable should be the only form of charging these days. Device specific docking station/cradles and device or vendor specific charging cables are just asinine.

But the USB bus only allows a tiny amount of power, compared to the Nokia charging plug. Charging via the Nokia plug is almost twice as fast as through a hypothetical USB plug.

johnkzin
2007-11-16, 23:32
But the USB bus only allows a tiny amount of power, compared to the Nokia charging plug. Charging via the Nokia plug is almost twice as fast as through a hypothetical USB plug.

I am, in fact, completely ok with that :-)

Karel Jansens
2007-11-16, 23:52
I am, in fact, completely ok with that :-)

But -- and that's my point -- I'm not.

GeneralAntilles
2007-11-17, 00:10
But -- and that's my point -- I'm not.

No kidding. I don't have an unlimited amount of time to wait for my device to charge, so having it go as quickly as is safely possible is a good thing.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-17, 11:58
No kidding. I don't have an unlimited amount of time to wait for my device to charge, so having it go as quickly as is safely possible is a good thing.

I'm sure that through some electronic wizardry, the plug could automatically route additional current to the battery, and achieve similar charging times. I know very little of electronics, but this doesn't seem far fetched.

In any case, using one type of plug is far more attractive than using multiple connectors. Ideally, the unit would have two micro-USBs that could be used to:

1) charge the device
2) connect to other USB 2.0 compliant devices
3) connect headphones (via a special dongle)
4) attach to an external display (via a special device)

The idea of having many 'specialized' ports (if indeed unnecessary) is not attractive.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-17, 12:40
Here's one thing that I don't think has been mentioned, but I would like to see changed with the N900: The 'Internet Tablet' brand!!!!

I 'get it'. I understand the concept, the usefulness, and how these devices differ from cellular phones, or laptops. I also appreciate that there is *some* brand differentiating the 'internet tablets' from other devices. The problem is in the brand collision with other 'tablets' especially considering that they too can surf the internet.

I think the categorical branding for the Nxxx's has made them confusing to the consumer. The 'tablet' name for devices was coined a long time ago. It was used with the old Microsoft 'tablet', is currently being used with the new Dell multi-touch 'tablet', and is rumored with the Apple's 'tablet' device. Although the Nxxx is similar in functionality with the larger tablets, the differing price, size, and performance, places them in a completely different category of device, which the name does not effectively do.

I think that Nokia has to re-think the branding of the 'internet tablet' device category if it is to maximize the systems potential. I would like to see this new brand representing the N900.

As a fun aside: any ideas?


}:^)~
YARR!

Capitoneous Corrupticus

namtastic
2007-11-17, 14:21
Gotta agree with the Captain here. I don't mind the whole Nxxx business, but everything else needs a good, marketable name. Everyone thought "iPod" was stupid, but damnit it was memorable and when you said it people didn't think you were talking about something else. ("Tablet - oh you mean a Tablet PC?")

I mean -- it's abbreviation is IT and it's system is OS 2008. How much more generic could it be?

Kozzi
2007-11-17, 14:40
let's call it nWeb :)

TA-t3
2007-11-17, 15:35
Yes, I've also been a bit bothered by 'internet tablet'. It isn't entirely clear what it means. In many countries 'tablet' is just another name for 'pill', it sounds like you're on medication for internet addiction! (Now maybe there's a twisted meaning right there.. ;)) I've tried to think of some better name myself but I'm not a word-person. So far I can only think of Intel's variant, which is MID: Mobile Internet Device. I for one would be fine with something better than that too.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-21, 16:17
Not to put a damper on the N810 sale-a-bration...

It looks as though Nokia might be watching. In the very least, they seem to be thinking along the same lines as many in this forum. Check out this latest patent application courtesy of Gizmodo:

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/11/nokia-sidekick-patent.jpg

Could this be the N900?

1) The screen and keyboard's size, proportion, and orientation seems to suggest tablet.

2) The rotatable "arm" could hold a camera that could be aimed to the outward for photos or inward for video conference (this is my speculation).

3) It seems as if the dpad can once again be placed on the device front, and be accessed even when open. Perhaps we'll see multi-purpose buttons, that can be game like on the front.

4) The screen is tiltable. Though the angle isn't much from the illustrations, does this suggest the kickstand is getting the boot?

This is just a patent diagram, so all information is scarce; there is no mention of model or specs. You can get to the original article by clicking here (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/game-of-telephone/nokia-sniffing-around-sidekick-territory-with-new-patent-application-325324.php).

Now if they'd only do something about the branding! I completely agree with namtastic, Internet Tablet is far to generic and confusing. I like Kozzi and TA-T3's N-Web and MID names. Might I also suggest "Walk-Around-Web" or WAW?


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-21, 16:31
Here's a link to the patent filing:

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220070259702%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20070259702&RS=DN/20070259702

It looks as though I was correct about the camera!

The device of claim 1, wherein said turning part comprises a camera which is configured to provide at least one of: a video image when the turning part is in the second position and photo pictures when the turning part is in the first position.



}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Kozzi
2007-11-21, 17:52
I am a Nokia distributor here in NYC. We got in the N810 and our rep told us they have a new internet tablet that will be coming out in about 6 months, but it will use a SIM card and you can use it as your main phone.

It will look like the N810 but with a little less plastic around the borders.

Quoted from a comment in Gizmodo article (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/notag/nokia-sniffing-around-sidekick-territory-with-new-patent-application-325324.php#c3054106) about the above patent, anyone here have any idea if this "might" be true ? 1 month for N810 or 6 months for N8xx with mobilephone's functions :eek:

johnkzin
2007-11-21, 18:26
Actually, it looks to me like the dpad is on the side, not the front. Not that I'm complaining -- it'd be interesting to get used to it being in that location, though. Doesn't really fit with the way I hold my N800 (index finger is on the +/- key, thumb on the dpad, putting the very base of my index finger right about where that dpad is), but I'd give it a try. I wonder if I could learn to use that base of my index finger to impart gestures on the dpad...

I like how it handles the camera.

I wonder if that drawing has to fully represent the keypad... as I don't see things like an enter key on it.

Still, I like the layout (I should, it basically conforms to stuff I asked-for/mocked-up in a "screen slides only and screen tilts instead of a kickstand" type form factor; the drawing in the right part of the image looks almost identical to one of my mock-ups). I wonder what the maximum tilt angle is ... like if you can tilt it up to almost 90 degrees.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-21, 18:48
Quoted from a comment in Gizmodo article (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/notag/nokia-sniffing-around-sidekick-territory-with-new-patent-application-325324.php#c3054106) about the above patent, anyone here have any idea if this "might" be true ? 1 month for N810 or 6 months for N8xx with mobilephone's functions :eek:

It *could* be true, but there's really no way of officially verifying the information, so I wouldn't hold your breath!

Of course, having the option to go cellular with this device would completely devastate practically all other hand-held devices out there; one device that can do it all, rather than a bag full of gadgets.

Lets hope that it has some form of mobile internet technology built in!



Actually, it looks to me like the dpad is on the side, not the front. Not that I'm complaining -- it'd be interesting to get used to it being in that location, though. Doesn't really fit with the way I hold my N800 (index finger is on the +/- key, thumb on the dpad, putting the very base of my index finger right about where that dpad is), but I'd give it a try. I wonder if I could learn to use that base of my index finger to impart gestures on the dpad...

I'm also interested in the button on the side. Does the patent state that it is indeed a dpad? If this is the case, the unit would have to be quite thick to be usable. A scroll wheel, or up down arrows would probably be nicer in that space.

I like how it handles the camera.

I like it to. To be honest, I think the fewer moving parts, the better, but the increase in functionality of this camera arrangement over the current tablet outweighs the extra moving part (IMO). I hope it has some type of lock mechanism, as it would be annoying if the camera rotated when you were trying to hold the tablet. Pulling out to rotate it would be acceptable, or better yet, a release button.

It's a patent drawing (think sketch) so it's not a correct representation of the final device. It's a drawing designed to illustrate the working components of the invention.

I agree with you. I think it's a novel approach. My only hope is that it's sturdy given all of the moving parts and easy to keep clean! I wouldn't like it if I heard the crunching of sand every time I closed my tablet!


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

bleek
2007-11-21, 19:10
Why is this thread on Page 19, when threads talking about the n810 which came out last Saturday are neglected. Isn't everyone's best interest being served in figuring out how to best use the n810 and improve it right now.

That being said: USB charging, and 2 card slots again.

lbattraw
2007-11-21, 20:40
(snip)
Do you want the N900 to support EDGE? UMTS? HSPDA? WiMAX? or to support BT and linking to a cheap(er) device that supports the data technology most appropriate to the part of the world you live in, and the network you connect via.

Now, if WiMAX ever makes it to where I live (without being superseded) then I'm sure I'll want it, but until then I'm more than happy with BT and a phone
Exactly! The ITT should leave out the power-hungry and proprietary cell modem and use BT to talk to whatever phone you have. Especially in the US where cell providers routinely cripple and lock down devices; I don't want my n900 (or whatever) to stop working if I cancel my plan with Sprint.

Re: Buttons vs. a screen that occupies the entire front of the device (ala iPhone)
Please don't get rid of the buttons on the face of the ITT. The iPhone is terribly handicapped by this choice and hack after hack is appearing, trying to get around the fact that there are no hardware buttons to use for input. It just isn't worth the compromise; I'd rather see the entire device get bigger than lose the buttons, and I believe we could use some buttons on the right side of the screen as well to allow shortcuts to applications. I really miss that from the Palm days where you could instantly jump to the core applications using those magic four buttons, and they were great for input in other apps.
I vote strongly in favor of a side-mounted scroll wheel too; there really is no other answer for quickly paging through sites and books without getting out the stylus to drag around instead (bleh!).

Larry

aflegg
2007-11-21, 20:50
Why is this thread on Page 19, when threads talking about the n810 which came out last Saturday are neglected. Isn't everyone's best interest being served in figuring out how to best use the n810 and improve it right now.

Why are they being neglected? That's an easy one - all the power users who were accepted into the device programme haven't got N810s yet. Anyone outside the US, hasn't got an N810 yet.

Nokia's announcement that sales have started in the US, isn't particularly joined up with the device programme; and lots of people around the world are still twiddling your thumbs.

You N810-owners will have to be as (im)patient as us not-yet-N810-owners ;-)

johnkzin
2007-11-21, 20:58
Why is this thread on Page 19, when threads talking about the n810 which came out last Saturday are neglected. Isn't everyone's best interest being served in figuring out how to best use the n810 and improve it right now.


Because we're all technophiles, and technophiles like to brainstorm about better and better techie-toys. It doesn't matter what thing is out NOW, we're still going to want to throw in an idea here or there about what would be better.

It is entirely independent of why the n810 threads are or aren't being as heavily monitored. Even if they were in high gear, this thread (which has been out a LOT longer than just last saturday) would still be on page 19.

johnkzin
2007-11-21, 21:07
Quoted from a comment in Gizmodo article (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/notag/nokia-sniffing-around-sidekick-territory-with-new-patent-application-325324.php#c3054106) about the above patent, anyone here have any idea if this "might" be true ? 1 month for N810 or 6 months for N8xx with mobilephone's functions :eek:

I saw that too. I wonder if that's a reference to the WiMAX version. Maybe the poster got it wrong (and it wont be a SIM card based device?).

But, if they're generally right, does this mean that the next gen will be usable as a full fledged phone? Or is this just a reference to WiMAX+skype (which, could sort of fulfill the statement).


Part of me likes the specialized tool approach.... it is, after all, the Unix way (do one thing, do it well, integrate with other things that do their job well). In that regard, wifi and bluetooth are good enough for being built into the NIT. We don't really need WiMAX, GSM, nor CDMA WWAN versions of the NIT. And staying with wifi&bt, the WWAN functionality is modular.

On the otherhand, there is something to be said about integration. Why carry 3 devices (NIT, Phone, bluetooth HD)? That's a little inconvenient.


That said, I don't really mind one way or the other if the NIT gets a WWAN radio. As long as it keeps bluetooth DUN, some reasonably current Wifi support, adds bluetooth PAN, doesn't _require_ me to pay for a WWAN service, and they don't undermine the battery life. In fact, my only "stomp my foot" with regard to adding WWAN to the NIT is: add bluetooth PAN first. The lack of bluetooth PAN is, IMO, a huge hole in this device.

After they add bluetooth PAN, they can add whatever WWAN capability they want to.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-21, 22:25
Part of me likes the specialized tool approach.... it is, after all, the Unix way (do one thing, do it well, integrate with other things that do their job well). In that regard, wifi and bluetooth are good enough for being built into the NIT. We don't really need WiMAX, GSM, nor CDMA WWAN versions of the NIT. And staying with wifi&bt, the WWAN functionality is modular.

This is a very interesting analogy that I hadn't made before. Of course, unix commands weigh in at a few kilobytes and are tiny in comparison to the overall operating system. To compare a unix command to a mobile device, the unix command would likely be the size of a MicroSD card. In this case, integration would be a no-brainer: you could simply tape them to the device, slot them into the device, or carry them in your wallet, and presto, you have custom functionality.

But mobile devices are far bigger in comparison than unix command. They're harder to integrate, take up more space, must all be individually charged, just all be switched on, etc.

This is why I prefer convergence (at this stage) with hardware. I'd rather have one device that does a lot, than many smaller devices that do one thing well. I would rather have a phone, a point-and-shoot camera, a mobile media player, a GPS, and a laptop in one device than having to juggle five. Its smaller, lighter, and far easier.

Just to be clear: I'm not advocating cellular integration into the N900. I'm personally indifferent about this option. However, I would love the ability to surf/talk/IM in the park, or on the beach with my tablet and without another device.

Of course, wi-fi should NOT be removed. I believe if Nokia goes WiMAX, upcoming WiMAX radios are backwardly compatible with Wi-Fi radios. In fact, this should be true regardless of the upgrade.

Oh, and WWAN sounds so much better than 'mobile internet' :D



}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

johnkzin
2007-11-22, 00:19
This is a very interesting analogy that I hadn't made before. Of course, unix commands weigh in at a few kilobytes and are tiny in comparison to the overall operating system. To compare a unix command to a mobile device, the unix command would likely be the size of a MicroSD card. In this case, integration would be a no-brainer: you could simply tape them to the device, slot them into the device, or carry them in your wallet, and presto, you have custom functionality.


Compact Flash cards were supposed to give us that ability. They had cameras, wifi cards, GSM data cards. And, they're electronically identical to a PCMCIA card, so functionality wise, anything you can do with PCMCIA (WiMAX, express cards via caddy, SD cards via caddy, etc.) you can, in theory, do with a CF card.

But, their popularity has waned. Too big, really, for putting in a cell phone ... and standalone PDAs are being replaced in the market by smartphone-PDAs. Though, a CF card slot on the back of a Nokia tablet, which blended right in, and allowed you to choose between Nokia manufactured camera, Wifi, WiMAX, GSM/EDGE/HSDPA/HSUPA, and CDMA/EVDO* cards would be rather nice. Then you can pick whichever one suits your personal taste/needs. (and the only one I would say HAS to be on the base integration is the bluetooth radio)

(* ok, nokia says they're out of the CDMA business, so maybe they just provide drivers for a known CDMA CF card vendor)

And there IS still a niche market for CF cards (someone made some industrial sensor cards for detecting chemicals, temperature, etc... sort of like a tri-corder on a library of CF cards) ... with the right drivers, Nokia could capture that market, as well (because the other cf card hosts are vanishing from the market).

I don't expect to see it happen, though. I think CF cards really are going to go the way of the Dodo.

I did recently see that someone made a wifi card that goes into a SD card slot. So, an SD card slot that has the functionality diversity of CF and PCMCIA cards (cameras (sony had one on a memory stick, so why not?), wifi, gsm, cdma, etc.) would be nice.

TA-t3
2007-11-22, 10:30
I bought an SDIO wi-fi card for my Palm nearly 3 years ago, and they were available for PPC (the old pre-winmob PDAs) before that. SDIO never took off though, probably because it turned out too difficult to support compared to the physically larger CF. There were only ever a couple of types and very few makers of SDIO cards, unlike CF I/O cards where there were probably half a dozen types or more, and lots of makers.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-22, 11:29
Interestingly enough, they're making WiFi Micro SD (http://www.thesmartpda.com/50226711/fitting_wifi_into_microsd.php) cards now.

This is semi good news. If they can fit a WiFi radio in a microSD, who's to say that they can't fit a GSM or WiMAX radio? Of course, because the current N810 has only one slot, and assuming that it can accept these MicroSD expansions, you would have to momentarily forgo your files to get access.

Here's to hoping that the N900 has at least two expansion slots ala the N800: full SD, if possible, or at the very least two Micro SD. If the trend remains the same, mini SD is not going very far, and the extra space would be gladly traded for an additional MicroSD slot.

In any case, I'm quite pleased with the direction the Tablet's are going. They just need a *little* bit more to be the ultimate handheld devices.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-22, 11:33
Any more ideas for the name? I have another one:

Nokia MI series

MI (pronounced "Mee") is an acronym standing for Moblie Internet. I can even see ad campaigns floating around the idea of individuality on the web! Like it? Hate it?

Some other similar ones are
1) Nokia I series (for internet -- though could/will be considered an apple ripoff)
2) Nokia W series (for Web or WAN -- not as slick as N or I, but it works)


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

johnkzin
2007-11-22, 12:42
Hm.. Nokia MI Tablet (pronounced "my" instead of "me"). Its MI Tablet.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-26, 02:15
One thing that I'd like to see on the next version of tablets is this: No cover for the SD card!

Since the kick stand effectively acts as a cover (assuming the card is to be inserted in the bottom), then I'd rather have the convenience of easily swapping it/them, without picking at a tiny cover before doing so. A simple push to secure or to release would be ideal.

This is a minor concern, as I would rarely have to swap 8GiB+ cards. Still, it would be nice if it were slightly easier (like changing DS cards).


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

johnkzin
2007-11-26, 03:40
If that latest patent application drawing is what we can expect for the next gen of the NIT, then there wont be a kick stand. But I do like the idea of going door-less. I'd rather have like on cell phones, where it's spring loaded (push in, and it pops out). But that's just me.

linuxrebel
2007-11-26, 04:17
What would I like from the next gen... well it isn't much in the way of hardware. I really like the form factor and would only wish for a hard cover for the screen that is easy to get out of the way. If my phone screen gets scratched... who cares I can still use it for it's primary purpose. Here however...

1. DON'T change memory card form factor again. Please.

2. Bluetooth stereo out and avrcp that is independent of application.

3. Better descriptions of applications in the repositories so I've some Idea what it does, and how to make it do it.

4. Tabs in the browser.

5. Greater support for multi-threading.

6. Support for non maximized applications. So I can do more than one thing at a time (like listen to music and surf without having one hang the other.)

7. A way to use the onscreen keyboard in a manor like xvkbd. To allow you to use non hildonized apps.

8. a file manager that allows you to well. Go outside the MyDocs folder....

9. A repository of "stock" applications so that if I decide to remove one... then later change my mind I can re-install it. (Like the calculator) without a re-flash, also comes in handy if I go "oops" and need to do a repair.

10. Better "integration" with 3rd party applications. For so long in the US and other places I visited. People HAD to buy a Nokia phone just so they could custom skin it. Nokia needs this kind of buzz for the IT.

11. Non DOS SD cards. Time to go 21st century.

12. Keyboard and non keyboard versions (ala n800/n810

13. Did I mention tabs in the browser? (hint hint)

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-26, 04:45
3. Better descriptions of applications in the repositories so I've some Idea what it does, and how to make it do it.

Hahahahahah! Pure gold!

Great list. By the way.

I am TOTALLY on the same page regarding the Maemo site. Half of the applications have no information. Nokia needs a simple, easy-to-navigate repository that really SELLS the rich applications for the N8xx. For a novice user, the N8xx may as well have only the apps loaded onto the system!

It seems to be a trend with open source software: work really hard building a full-featured, complex application, then put up the crappiest, most cryptic, hard-to-navigate site possible to show it off...

Nokia should really push for a clean, easy to navigate, site with one-click installs, for all users. More screenshots are generally better than less...


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-26, 04:53
If that latest patent application drawing is what we can expect for the next gen of the NIT, then there wont be a kick stand. But I do like the idea of going door-less. I'd rather have like on cell phones, where it's spring loaded (push in, and it pops out). But that's just me.

Oh yeah, I nearly forgot about that...

Seriously though, I don't *need* tons of internal storage as long as it's painless to swap things in and out. It reminds me of cartridge switching, on the game systems of yester-year.

I've been watching GP2X vids, and wishing that the N810 was a descent emulator. Certainly it *should* be possible (it can run Quake 2 afterall), though no emulators have been optimized for it. The thought of playing Gen/SNES or maybe even PSX is truly drool-worthy. Here's to hoping that the next version of the tablet has the speed and button layout to accommodate this type of functionality.

Does anyone know if the N810's keyboard can be used as a make-shift gamepad?


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

ArnimS
2007-11-26, 06:18
Does anyone know if the N810's keyboard can be used as a make-shift gamepad?


....... Yes

Salt The Fries
2007-11-26, 06:30
I'd like an ambidextrous (or even better, left handed) design as mentioned earlier, where there are buttons on both sides and one could swap keymap layouts.

Full size SD card(s) are a must. They store more data at lower prices and greater density.

Faster processor, more RAM.

Peer-to-peer / ad-hoc WiFi file sharing & IM between tablets; Wi-Fi gaming would be even better.

Some kind of gaming capabilities (maybe something derived from the N-Gage failure).

Physical screen lock / standby button (something like the sliding button on the top of the iPod).

Screen that is easily readable in sunlight.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-26, 14:03
....... Yes

Candid and concise.. :)

Is this a supposition, or from experience? Would it be comfortable to use?

I still have high hopes for the N8xx as a viable emulator, even at a reduced framerate and resolution.

What's the state of PSX emulation on the GP2X these days?


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-26, 14:05
I'd like an ambidextrous (or even better, left handed) design as mentioned earlier, where there are buttons on both sides and one could swap keymap layouts.

Full size SD card(s) are a must. They store more data at lower prices and greater density.

Faster processor, more RAM.

Peer-to-peer / ad-hoc WiFi file sharing & IM between tablets; Wi-Fi gaming would be even better.

Some kind of gaming capabilities (maybe something derived from the N-Gage failure).

Physical screen lock / standby button (something like the sliding button on the top of the iPod).

Screen that is easily readable in sunlight.

I'm surprised that there isn't a screen lock as it is? Wouldn't it be difficult to keep the unit in low power mode when in the pocket?


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

ScottLind
2007-11-26, 14:33
1. MSN Messenger, in the firmware.
2. Multi-touch screen with at least 16million colours.
3. A harddrive with a minimum of 50GB.
4. 14 hours of battery-life.
5. Bigger screen.
6. 5 megapixel camera with Carl Zeiss optics and xenon flash.

Most of 'em aren't realistic, I think :D

johnkzin
2007-11-26, 14:40
1. MSN Messenger, in the firmware.
2. Multi-touch screen with at least 16million colours.
3. A harddrive with a minimum of 50GB.
4. 14 hours of battery-life.
5. Bigger screen.
6. 5 megapixel camera with Carl Zeiss optics and xenon flash.

Most of 'em aren't realistic, I think :D


I care MUCH more about Yahoo and AIM than I do about MSN. In fact, I care about Yahoo and AIM more than I care about Jabber/Google-Talk. That said, I do have accounts for all 4. Having them all be directly supported might be nice ... but it's sort of un-necessary given Pidgin, and the project that people here are doing (jabber to other chat program gateways).

The multi-touch screen, with things like intertial scrolling, etc., might be nice.

I think the hard drive and larger screen would make the device too big though (same with a _5_ megapixel camera).

I don't see myself needing a 14 hour battery life though :-} (and that would also probably make the device too big ... I wouldn't want to do anything that radically alters the size of the NITs)

TA-t3
2007-11-26, 14:54
I wouldn't want a harddrive in a tablet even if I got paid for it. No thanks. The harddrive was the main reason I stayed away from the Palm Lifedrive (back when there weren't any tablets). Fixed, as in can't just upgrade by replacing with new large SD card, movable parts, it stops spinning whenever you don't access it (to save battery), thus there's a very annoying latency when you want to use it (don't argue about iPods, it's very different when you just listen to music: It can simply buffer the single-file data stream. It's a very different case for multitasking computers.)

Karel Jansens
2007-11-26, 16:19
1. MSN Messenger, in the firmware.
2. Multi-touch screen with at least 16million colours.
3. A harddrive with a minimum of 50GB.
4. 14 hours of battery-life.
5. Bigger screen.
6. 5 megapixel camera with Carl Zeiss optics and xenon flash.

Most of 'em aren't realistic, I think :D

Oh, I dunno. I think you can get most of those features without having to wait for the N900.

Just strap your desktop and a car battery on your back and you're good to go.

johnkzin
2007-11-26, 17:44
I wouldn't want a harddrive in a tablet even if I got paid for it. No thanks. The harddrive was the main reason I stayed away from the Palm Lifedrive ...


I assumed he meant an SSD HD. Which is merely "big" as opposed to all of the other problems of a spinning platter based HD.

TA-t3
2007-11-26, 17:51
Ok, but I wouldn't call it a harddrive then :) (For larger machines, possibly. They're only used to harddrives. On mobile devices we know what we're dealing with when someone says 'flash'..) Still, even with an SSD "HD" I wouldn't want it unless it was replacable.. as with SD.

nedim
2007-11-26, 20:12
This whole thread is really not N810 specific....

Anyway I would like next Nokia IT to run on Android. That way a ton of software that _will_ be written for Android will also work on IT. Vs dozen (undoubtedly very) useful apps we have today.

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-26, 20:29
This whole thread is really not N810 specific....

Anyway I would like next Nokia IT to run on Android. That way a ton of software that _will_ be written for Android will also work on IT. Vs dozen (undoubtedly very) useful apps we have today.

While I don't think it should run on Android, it would certainly be good if it supported Android applications. Maemo is a very good platform, and shouldn't be tossed aside. Since android is a Linux solution for mobile phones, support should be possible within the maemo framework.

I hope that this is an official Nokia project, rather than a developer project. It would be nice if the N900 had android support out-of-the-box.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-26, 20:31
Ok, but I wouldn't call it a harddrive then :) (For larger machines, possibly. They're only used to harddrives. On mobile devices we know what we're dealing with when someone says 'flash'..) Still, even with an SSD "HD" I wouldn't want it unless it was replacable.. as with SD.

Agreed..

Honestly I'd settle for 1 easily swappable SD card. 32GB variants have been announced (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,122514-page,1/article.html)! This is more than enough data at any one time and swapping will likely be kept to a minimum.

Of course, if there's internal space to spare, another SD would be a plus.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-28, 01:13
After seeing some prototype artwork at Gizmodo (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple/apple+ish-prototypes-for-non+ipod-gadgets-327187.php), I thought the same concept could be easily applied to the N900.

The idea is extremely simple, but extremely powerful. The unit has standardized holes/clips/slots that external add-on hardware could be attached to. These attachments would have their own power supplies (if necessary), and would interface directly with the device (via downloadable applications) to extend the functions of the tablet and add personal customization.

Here are some suggestions for add-ons:
1) HQ point-and-shoot/video camera complete w/ flash and tri-pod mount-ability
2) external wireless network adapter for various wireless networks
3) video-out attachment (vga, dvi, component) for external screen viewing
4) extended life battery pack (2 to 3 times longer life)
5) memory expansion add-on with 4 full-size SD and full-size usb port (usb flash)
6) bar code reader (for warehouses, organization freaks)
7) game-pad controller w/ programmable buttons
8) infrared "remote" attachment w/ laser pointer (good for presentations)
9) 2x N900 attachment connecting two units nintendo-DS style (1337? :D)
10) robotics connector for automated/remote controlled home-brew bots
11) docking-bay attachment, for full-sized keyboard/screen/mouse functionality
12) greatly simplified external car/wall/desk mounts that use the new connectors
13) FM transmitter for wireless in-car listening
14) hard case attachment, that folds over to conceal and protect the device (ships with the unit)
15) storage attachment, for small physical items
16) inductive charging attachment for induction charging mats

I would totally rock the camera on my N900. I'd probably keep the gamepad close by as well...

Of these, which types of add-ons would you use? What would you like to see that hasn't been listed?


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Kozzi
2007-11-28, 01:42
Check this out:


http://mobilementalism.com/imageSnag/1292-47471f4b72c0a.jpg

http://mobilementalism.com/imageSnag/1292-47480cbcafc90.jpg

How about this for the next I.Tablet ? Or perhaps similar design but without buttons (or as much as N810) on the face, make screen-part slimmer ( N95) and thicker at the keyboard-part. :)

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-30, 13:29
The idea is extremely simple, but extremely powerful. The unit has standardized holes/clips/slots that external add-on hardware could be attached to. These attachments would have their own power supplies (if necessary), and would interface directly with the device (via downloadable applications) to extend the functions of the tablet and add personal customization.

Here are some more ideas for N900 add-on devices.

1) Computer 'book' cover. A leather bound holder the size of a large novel, that can mount an N810, external keyboard (like a mini laptop), and have storage for headphones, bluetooth headset, etc.
2) Wireless powercast (http://powercastco.com) battery attachment for effortless automatic in-home/in-car/in-cafe/in-office/ etc charging.
3) GSM/3G attachment for accessing cellular networks
4) 'survival' attachment, with solar panel, water-proof case, and light, etc, for off-road adventure.
5) scanner attachment, for scanning papers. The software would automatically stitch the resultant images together.
6) Walky-Talky attachment, for direct radio communication.


I hope Nokia is listening! It would *only* require cleverly positioned clips/slots/holes on the N900 to make this possible!


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

johnkzin
2007-11-30, 13:50
With an inspiration from Deeda.com, I'd like to see an external device comparable to their UWI.

1) wirelessly pairs with the NIT

2) has connectors for external display in many different formats:

* RCA RGB
* RCA composite
* RCA stereo audio
* DVI (with DVI-A)
* HDMI
* Digital Audio

3) include logic for display to NTSC, HD, and possibly PAL/SECAM (or maybe it needs to have a US version and a European version).

4) possibly a low power FM stereo output

(I think Deeda also mentions a car device which takes audio from the Deeda and just does the FM stereo output, so you can listen on your car radio; so add that as a second device suggestion -- one device for home-theatre/desktop display&audio, and one device for car audio)

Then you can use any TV or monitor (or stereo) as an output for your NIT either as a workstation or as a media player.

johnkzin
2007-11-30, 14:14
3) GSM/3G attachment for accessing cellular networks


(this isn't exactly what I want to see on the N900, as it ends up describing more of a companion product, just like my last post did)

Rather than an attachment, I'd like to see something I can leave in my wallet/pocket/backpack/bookbag/briefcase. Something the size of a small cell phone; has its own internal battery with a decent life; a microUSB client port for configuration, wired tethering, and charging; microSD card for storing and transferring config files and wifi keys, and comes in 3 flavors:

a) GSM and GPRS/EDGE/HSDPA/HSUPA/HSOPA/LTE

b) CDMA and 1xRTT/EVDO rev 0/A/B

c) WiMAX/WiBRO


It should support as many of the following local network connection options to the NIT as possible:

1) Bluetooth DUN*
2) Bluetooth PAN**
3) act as a Wifi Access Point with decent security/privacy options
4) SIP server for utilizing any GSM or CDMA voice service that the device has (and can be disabled if the device is being used with a data only plan, or the user just doesn't want to accidentally use voice minutes)

(* unlike my Nokia 2865i, I shouldn't have to always re-approve the bluetooth session: once I've paired them, the device should always accept the NIT, so that I can literally leave the device in my pocket without having to always click "accept" when starting a data session)

(** which the NIT REALLY ought to support, if not in a software upgrade for the N800/N810, then definitely in whatever device comes next)

This accessory could also be sold to non-NIT customers (other PDAs, wifi enabled PMPs, laptops, etc.), and pre-N900 NIT customers.

Call it the Nokia Personal Wireless Gateway (PWG) or Personal Wireless Router (PWR).

I would NOT put in any other bluetooth support (except maybe FTP for handling config files) -- it shouldn't directly connect to bluetooth headsets/handsets ... that should be left to a SIP client on the NIT (or other client device). I also wouldn't put any kind of physical UI on it. You configure/manage it via USB, SD card, and/or HTTPS (once networked to it), and you otherwise never touch it directly ... except to plug it in for charging, maybe.

The only user interface button type stuff I'd put on the device are: status lights for power/charging/low-battery, WWAN connection, USB connection, client connection or data-xmit, and a power button.

When I said "small cell phone", it MUST be no bigger than a cradlepoint mobile router. But, I'd hope for a more candybar shape than the cradepoint (for pocket convenience :-) ).

Last, make sure the GSM version is supported by T-Mobile USA ... and try to convince MetroPCS to support the CDMA version :-)

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-30, 18:20
With an inspiration from Deeda.com, I'd like to see an external device comparable to their UWI.

Great post! And thanks for the Deeda reference. This is precisely what I'm talking about regarding a mountable physical devices, although the form and the mounts can be different (they should be very, very sturdy). Best yet, there are visualizations on the site that lets one see what some of these devices might look like (gamepad/ keyboards).

For those that don't know, check it out here: http://www.deeda.com/deeda-devices.html

The mountable paradigm is so strong because it gives users choice, but doesn't force things on them.

I remember looking at the Deeda Pi with longing eyes before. I'll keep my eye on this device and it's progress. Certainly, its form factor, vision, and openness, make it (IMO) the strongest N-Series Internet Tablet competitor I've seen so far. Hopefully it's not vaporware.

I think the idea of video out can play a much more important role in the future. Right now, the N810, though capable, is stunted by a relatively slow processor and memory. This will inevitably change as hardware becomes more sophisticated. At a certain point, one should be able to literally use the N900 in the place of a portable computer (without being constrained to a tiny screen) if it can use a comfortable keyboard, a mouse or other pointing device, and a larger screen (with a higher resolution). This can only happen, however, if there is some type of built in video-out (NAY!), or external dock (YAY!).

I also appreciate your vision for interfaceless-wireless-networking device. It's a great idea and would be a good accessory for the current line of tablets, and future tablets, by giving the user choice of which network they can have access to. This is especially useful due to the growing number of wireless 'standards' out there. Eventually, one or two will become dominant, but that shouldn't prevent NIT users from getting on them now!

Personally, I would still like a mountable variant of such a device. This is just personal taste, but I like the idea of having everything in one convenient package high-speed, low power package.

Both versions of the 'network companion' (mountable and wireless) would easily cover most users preferences, without forcing them in a particular direction.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

omegaone37
2007-11-30, 18:41
Hmmm... reminds me of the iPhone and iPod Touch.

Do I smell Laws.... oh, nevermind.

Regards,

Omega

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-30, 20:46
Hmmm... reminds me of the iPhone and iPod Touch.

Do I smell Laws.... oh, nevermind.

Regards,

Omega


Heh heh heh.

It's quite sad that the iPhone can be pawned off as a revolutionary invention. Apple was not the first to release phones and certainly not the first to release phones with touch screens, but somewhere down the line, the population got brainwashed into thinking that the iPhone is a revolutionary device.

It's stylish, has a slick interface, has multi-touch, is popular, and is arguably a very good device. A revolutionary invention, however, it is not.

By the same token, I wouldn't consider the N810 a revolutionary invention either. It quite predictably evolved from other mobiles that have come before it. It just happens to do what it does (IMO) better than all the rest.

Of course, design-patent infringement is another story....


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

omegaone37
2007-11-30, 20:50
Aye Aye Capt'n... I was referring to the Deeda thingie, not the IT's.

...but, point taken.

Omega

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-30, 20:57
Aye Aye Capt'n... I was referring to the Deeda thingie, not the IT's.

...but, point taken.

Omega

Oh, I know! Forgive my lack of clarity, as it was a general rant and not directed at you directly. My post should have prefaced it with "As an aside" or something similar, to indicate the superlative degree of it's generalness. :D

Fair travels, sir!


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-12-02, 22:17
I am honestly very happy with the form that the N810 is in. To be honest, most of my concerns are software related. I would be pleased if the N900 mirrored the N810 hardware very closely.

I think the biggest change to the N900 should indeed be software. Maemo seems like a great platform, though its far from being perfect. Additionally, key applications should be improved dramatically (eg. MPlayer should be standard).

I came across an article that compares the N800 to the Apple Newton. The reviewer has done a very good job of outlining areas that can be improved. Check it out: http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/

What do you think?


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-12-03, 13:10
I would like to see the N900 come packed with one of these: http://www.wirelessground.com/mircousbhfadap.html

It's a microUSB to 3.5mm headphone adapter eliminating the need for a dedicated 3.5mm headphone jack in the N900. The benefits are many:

1) It frees up internal room for more hardware (extra micro USB, for example).
2) It forces audio over USB, which can be useful for digitally perfect, crystal-clear, audiophile grade sound reproduction from the N900. Great for home stereo hookups.
3) It allows power users the choice of bypassing the in-pack microUSB to 3.5mm adapter for use with an efficient portable amp and HiFi headphones.
4) It's a very simple and low cost solution.
5) The headphone output can be controlled via software, allowing the adapter to act as a line-out, for quick and easy stereo hookup.
6) It can accommodate wired headsets complete with microphone input.


Ideally, this adapter would have the ability to tightly 'clip' to the headphone jacks base, eliminating the need to re-connect it each time you want to listen, or reducing the possibility of it coming loose in the pocket.

Together with usb charging, this would free up a great deal of internal space. The current 3.5mm headphone jack and the DC power input could be wholly eliminated in this scenario.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

slim
2007-12-03, 16:53
I am honestly very happy with the form that the N810 is in. To be honest, most of my concerns are software related. I would be pleased if the N900 mirrored the N810 hardware very closely.

I think the biggest change to the N900 should indeed be software. Maemo seems like a great platform, though its far from being perfect. Additionally, key applications should be improved dramatically (eg. MPlayer should be standard).

I could not agree more. When evaluating N810 against competitors, two things stuck out:

-- N810 is a great piece of hardware
-- N810 really lags in software

In my opinion, the hardware makes the N810 a potentially great PIM, media viewer/player, GPS, and eMail client. These are all well-established "killer apps" with large markets. The only thing preventing the N810 from competing in (and possibly leading) these markets is the software.

I know there is 3rd party software, which is certainly useful. However for such important applications there should be a much better out-of-box experience. I wonder what Blackberry's market would be like if they had suggested people find and install their own email client, or if Palm suggested people wait until someone else developed a PIM application.

The ROI for Nokia here must be huge. I really can't get my head around why they haven't done it.

johnkzin
2007-12-03, 18:44
I still have some usability concerns with the dpad/button-cluster placement on the N810. I'd like to see something like my mock-ups, with 2 dpads arranged in the center sides (or upper sides, like where the N800 dpad is) and the camera and light sensor above the screen instead of to the side.

The other hardware things, though, I would agree aren't as critical. They're "nice to haves" (charge via USB, microSD/transflash, rear facing picture and video camera, tilt screen instead of kick-stand, WWAN (wimax, hsdpa/hsupa, etc.). Once the usability concerns are addressed, these "nice to haves" can, and probably should, take a back-seat to software concerns. And, hopefully, those software concerns don't have to wait for an N900 -- they can be done within the OS upgrades to the current tablets alone.

The things I think are "Must Haves" on the software side:

Calendar/Todo app
Sync app for contacts, bookmarks, calendar, todo with all of the following desktop/server based counterparts:

thunderbird/firefox/lightning/sunbird
Apple addressbook and iCal perhaps via iSync compatibility
Google Apps
(maybe Outlook/Entourage)

Full IMAP client (can read all server-side folders, can use the server-side inbox/sent/trash folders instead of local ones, automatically syncs all IMAP folders when checking for new messages)
Bluetooth PAN support (in addition to Bluetooth DUN)
Fully supported integration with Bluetooth Hard drives, NFS, CIFS, WebDAV (windows "web folders"), and Apple File Share volumes.
Support for Socks 4 and Socks 5 Proxies in the Configuration wizard (in the same dialog where you specify HTTP, HTTPS, and other proxies).
Support for password protected proxies.
Gmail Notifier should support logging into Google Apps hosted gmail domains, and not just the main gmail domain. (it notifies just fine, it just doesn't work when you tell it to go login)


These things are "Nice to Haves" on the software side:


Act as Bluetooth keyboard and mouse for other devices (supporting both HID and SPP modes)
Act as Bluetooth "handsfree" device for cell phones (display caller-id, dial calls, answer calls, route audio through NIT, sync NIT and phone contacts, send/receive SMS and MMS messages)
Bundled OpenSSH client (keep server as an add-on)
Built in VNC client (just like xterm is now built in) (use the zoom buttons for actually magnifying/demagnifying the display, and not as surrogates for mouse2 and mouse3)
Easy to install and manage VNC server
Support for "video out via USB" devices
Office Software (view/edit Word, Excel, PowerPoint docs)
Sync documents to desktop host via simple user interface
Sync documents with Google Docs
Support for USB modem/network devices (POTS modem, RTT1x/EVDO, GPRS/EDGE/HSDPA/HSUPA/LTE, WiMAX, Ethernet 10/100/Gig)
Support for USB tethering with cell phones (via USB OTG port)
Support for USB card readers
Support for various Express Card devices via Express Card to USB adapters (so, EVDO Express Card plugged into adapter plugged into cable plugged into USB port)


(you'll notice I don't mention any media device oriented stuff; I don't use my NIT that way ... I wouldn't object to having faster video frame rate support, more codecs, etc. -- just didn't include them because they aren't on my radar)

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-12-04, 12:09
I could not agree more. When evaluating N810 against competitors, two things stuck out:

-- N810 is a great piece of hardware
-- N810 really lags in software

In my opinion, the hardware makes the N810 a potentially great PIM, media viewer/player, GPS, and eMail client. These are all well-established "killer apps" with large markets. The only thing preventing the N810 from competing in (and possibly leading) these markets is the software.


Agreed, and very well put. This is especially puzzling when one considers that many of the apps are available, high quality, and open source. For example, were Nokia to pack Canola, or canola 2 as part of the Internet Tablet stock applications, it would be considered a POWERFUL and complete PMP (personal media player) replacement, capable of taking advantage of almost all types of media with its optimized Mplayer backend.


I know there is 3rd party software, which is certainly useful. However for such important applications there should be a much better out-of-box experience. I wonder what Blackberry's market would be like if they had suggested people find and install their own email client, or if Palm suggested people wait until someone else developed a PIM application.

Amazingly put. Nokia is providing a less than stellar user experience in a number of areas:

1) shoddy software
2) less-than-stellar user interfaces
3) difficult to find/manage software
4) missing key applications

The thing is, many of these things exist! Rather than wasting time writing yet another media player, include Canola! The extra time can be spent porting PIM software or the like.

At the very least, stick a 'get latest software' button on the menu, to automatically grab a select list of OSS hand picked by very capable people.

As for the 3rd party apps:

Nokia could really benefit from hiring one or two people, dedicated to maintaining a website for 3rd party apps. At the present moment, the maemo site does a pretty good job of delineating the existing applications, but with non-intuative names, and often shoddy websites, it's VERY difficult to know what the program is prior to installing it. This problem could be wholly eliminated if one (or two) people, was committed to making comprehensive writeups for an applications on a standard page, with screen shots and install links.

The user-friendly software site would not only help existing users find software that's easily installable (only the standard repository!), but understand what is actually available to be installed. Future tablet owners will have the luxury of knowing what the tablet can do before the purchase. Lastly, the user site will easily point out the lacking areas of the current software base, and site statistics analysis, will determine how the masses are using the tablet.


The ROI for Nokia here must be huge. I really can't get my head around why they haven't done it.

Sometimes these obvious things to us (the users), are not obvious to executives reading charts. Someone should mail this thread to thread to the key individuals responsible for the Tablet Series.

I'll draft an open source letter :) and post it here for the scrutiny of all. Hopefully, once mailed, it'll be read, and have an impact on the direction of Internet Tablet development.

To all: Get your ideas in!


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt
2007-12-04, 12:23
I still have some usability concerns with the dpad/button-cluster placement on the N810. I'd like to see something like my mock-ups, with 2 dpads arranged in the center sides (or upper sides, like where the N800 dpad is) and the camera and light sensor above the screen instead of to the side.

Good suggestions. It seems as though first time N810 owners don't have that much of an issue with the dpad location. Do you think this is something you have gotten used to, and is uncomfortable on the N810?

As a first time tablet owner, I doubt I'd have a problem with the dpad on the N810. Is this just me?


The things I think are "Must Haves" on the software side:

Calendar/Todo app
Sync app for contacts, bookmarks, calendar, todo with all of the following desktop/server based counterparts:

thunderbird/firefox/lightning/sunbird
Apple addressbook and iCal perhaps via iSync compatibility
Google Apps
(maybe Outlook/Entourage)

Full IMAP client (can read all server-side folders, can use the server-side inbox/sent/trash folders instead of local ones, automatically syncs all IMAP folders when checking for new messages)
Bluetooth PAN support (in addition to Bluetooth DUN)
Fully supported integration with Bluetooth Hard drives, NFS, CIFS, WebDAV (windows "web folders"), and Apple File Share volumes.
Support for Socks 4 and Socks 5 Proxies in the Configuration wizard (in the same dialog where you specify HTTP, HTTPS, and other proxies).
Support for password protected proxies.
Gmail Notifier should support logging into Google Apps hosted gmail domains, and not just the main gmail domain. (it notifies just fine, it just doesn't work when you tell it to go login)


A great list of must haves!

In regards to bluetooth PAN: this thread (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12666) seems to suggest that it is indeed possible, but certainly not out of the box. A forum member has posted a script to enable it, but it could potentially be easily setup with easy to use configuration software. Worth a look.


(you'll notice I don't mention any media device oriented stuff; I don't use my NIT that way ... I wouldn't object to having faster video frame rate support, more codecs, etc. -- just didn't include them because they aren't on my radar)

Certainly. It seems as though you mainly use the tablet as a remote network tool! :)


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

johnkzin
2007-12-04, 13:50
Good suggestions. It seems as though first time N810 owners don't have that much of an issue with the dpad location. Do you think this is something you have gotten used to, and is uncomfortable on the N810?

As a first time tablet owner, I doubt I'd have a problem with the dpad on the N810. Is this just me?


I don't have my N810 yet. For me, it's about ergonomics and convenience. Thumb placement, and fatigue from extending the thumb, etc. say that the N800's dpad location is pretty ideal. The N810's location means you have to extend your thumb down to use it (assuming you're firmly holding the sides of the device). That's likely to cause thumb aches in the long run.

Then there's convenience. With the N810, to use the dpad, I'll have to open the device. That's just not a good requirement in my opinion. If the UI was as finger-friendly as the iPhone, the that'd be fine. But OS2007 certainly isn't, and while I hear OS2008 is better, it doesn't sound like it's as good as an iPhone for finger-friendliness.


A great list of must haves!


Thank you :-)


In regards to bluetooth PAN: this thread (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12666) seems to suggest that it is indeed possible, but certainly not out of the box. A forum member has posted a script to enable it, but it could potentially be easily setup with easy to use configuration software. Worth a look.


I've seen that thread. And, you're right, I mean "out of the box". I want it to be as basic and as integrated feature as Bluetooth DUN and Wifi. While I am quite capable of hacking any unix/linux box (I'm a unix sysadmin by profession), I don't want to do that with my consumer device. I want it to "just work".


Certainly. It seems as though you mainly use the tablet as a remote network tool! :)


Yup! For me, it's about connectivity. Chat from anywhere, Email from anywhere, Web browse from anywhere, read RSS from anywhere, ssh to my servers from anywhere. I suppose it's possible I'd be just as happy with a sidekick (I know they have ssh, don't know if they have a decent RSS reader), but on principle, I want an open source platform as well, and unix based is a huge bonus. And there are some other things I enjoy about the NIT platform beyond those basic connectivity goals.

I have an iPod I _never_ use. It is just forever charging on my desktop (probably killed the battery from doing that, and I just don't know it yet because I haven't touched it in over a year). I don't begrudge people who want more PMP features on the NIT platform -- even if I probably wont use it, it improves the platform in all sorts of ways. I just don't have any of those features on my list of "must haves" and "nice to haves".

dubiousmike
2007-12-04, 13:53
- While I would certainly use some vnc type of functionality, support for a sena clent would be cool.

- WAY faster processor and the ability to underclock it if you want longer battery life.

- The current camera offends me. Nokia, 2001 called and they want their camera back.

GeneralAntilles
2007-12-04, 14:30
- WAY faster processor and the ability to underclock it if you want longer battery life.


Kinda redundant, as we're guaranteed to get a processor upgrade next generation (it's already been mentioned several times, anyway). Underclocking already comes with OS2008, it just scales to user demand. A selector for this would be rather pointless, you either get more cycles with a slight reduction of battery life to get something done quickly or fewer cycles with less of an impact on battery life that takes longer to complete—the result is mostly the same.

Plus, these sort of things should be transparent to the user, anyway. :)

dubiousmike
2007-12-04, 14:35
Kinda redundant

I'm just feeling mouthy this morning. :)

GeneralAntilles
2007-12-04, 14:42
I'm just feeling mouthy this morning. :)

Ah, in that case, mouth on! :cool:

TA-t3
2007-12-04, 14:45
The GA is spot on with the underclocking - no need, the system does that fine by itself as needed. Also, the OS reduces the voltage when it can too, which as far as I have understood is an equally important battery saving factor. I wouldn't want to fiddle around with manually adjusting the voltage level.

fanoush
2007-12-04, 15:05
Also, the OS reduces the voltage when it can too, which as far as I have understood is an equally important battery saving factor.
Yes, the whole point of CPU underclocking is lowering its voltage. Without lowering the voltage you just do same thing longer at slower clock which does not save much. It may (apart from having sluggish system) even make your battery life worse since system has to keep various hardware parts powered for longer time waiting for CPU to finish.

This idea is often called "race to idle" - the best approach is almost always to run at the fastest clock frequency afforded by the current voltage level and get the work done quickly.

See #11 here http://lwn.net/Articles/240253/

mbrinkhues
2007-12-13, 17:50
What would I like to see:

+ A slightly bigger screen (6 or 7'' maybe) with a 800x600 or 1024x768 pixel resolution. Enough to view most technical PDF, allowing me to get rid of books and/or carry most documentation even without Internet access

+ 7-8 hours of battery life with WiFi and Keyboard on so I can use the thing over a workday full of discussions and note taking

+ Some decend applications that can read/write/display Word, Powerpoint and Excel. Sorry but those ARE the standards that our customers (and therefor my employer) work with

+ Synchronisation with Outlook and Notes on the level of what a WiMo System can do for Outlook

+ NO harddisk. Please no moving parts. And bring back the hardcover of the 770 or something similar. I like rugged. Adding a sturdy integral belt-loop/stand combination won't hurt either

+ Either a slide out keyboard or another way to carry a keyboard without needing cargo pants or an attache case. This might include things like laserkey (I am not a touch-typist anyway)

+ Full USB bus and support for attaching to a printer, a camera or an external hard drive. This includes a printer-driver that speaks PCL

+ NO cameras please. Build-in Cameras mean that I can't take the unit everywhere. If I really need one, it's better to be abel to attach an external unit through USB or Firewire

+ Telephone support. Either through a card slot (like some PDA) or build in. And please with UMTS and Quad-Band support

+ UPnP support, at least as a media player.


Give me a unit that can replace one of the larger-sized WiMo 5 or 6 phones and we have a deal.

GeneralAntilles
2007-12-13, 18:16
+ A slightly bigger screen (6 or 7'' maybe) with a 800x600 or 1024x768 pixel resolution.


Then this isn't the device for you. Pocketability is the most important feature of this product line, this ruins that and turns the device into just another UMPC (of which there are plenty).


+ 7-8 hours of battery life with WiFi and Keyboard on so I can use the thing over a workday full of discussions and note taking


This simply isn't realistic without major increases in size (to accommodate a large battery) or major decreases in performance (to increase efficiency).


+ NO harddisk. Please no moving parts. And bring back the hardcover of the 770 or something similar. I like rugged. Adding a sturdy integral belt-loop/stand combination won't hurt either


Hard disk isn't realistic for a device of this size and power usage. I'm 100% agreed on that.

I think what a lot of people overlooked about the loss of the 770's hardcover is that we got a badass kickstand out of the deal and, honestly, I'd much rather have that than a bulk-increasing, mildly useful hardcover.


+ Either a slide out keyboard or another way to carry a keyboard without needing cargo pants or an attache case. This might include things like laserkey (I am not a touch-typist anyway)


A hardware keyboard is a waste of space, money, and time for me. I can type perfectly fine on the onscreen thumbboard, and losing the 2nd memory slot is not a good trade for a barely usable hardware keyboard. If you want a good keyboard, get yourself an iGo.

A laser-keyboard is bad idea. Some of us are touch-typists (not a hard skill to learn, and incredibly important in today's digital world), and would prefer to have a keyboard that actually works.


+ Full USB bus and support for attaching to a printer, a camera or an external hard drive. This includes a printer-driver that speaks PCL


We pretty much have this now, we just need more support on the software end.


+ NO cameras please. Build-in Cameras mean that I can't take the unit everywhere. If I really need one, it's better to be abel to attach an external unit through USB or Firewire


This is an N-series device, so it's a bit like asking McDonalds to give you a vegetarian cheeseburger—not gonna happen. Now, if we're talking about an E-series maemo device, go for it! (pupnik has since convinced me that product line diversification doesn't mean I'm going to have device envy no matter which one I buy ;))


+ Telephone support. Either through a card slot (like some PDA) or build in. And please with UMTS and Quad-Band support


There are a lot of reasons why this is a stupid idea (they've been beaten to death endlessly in this and other threads). So I'll limit myself to this: Please, dear god, no.


+ UPnP support, at least as a media player.


Both the File Manager and Media player support this natively, so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up. (There's even a UPnP server available, actually)


Give me a unit that can replace one of the larger-sized WiMo 5 or 6 phones and we have a deal.

This may not be the product for you, then. :)

johnkzin
2007-12-13, 19:59
I agree that pocketability is key for the NIT line. I wouldn't mind seeing an UMPC line of products from Nokia with a larger form factor than the NIT (sort of like what HTC is starting to do).... but for the NIT line itself, it must be a pocketable device. Any suggestions to the contrary don't seem to be consistent with what the NIT devices are, and need to be.

However, on keyboard: I like the idea of a slide-out thumb keyboard. I recently bought a Samsung SCH-R410, and love using the slide out keyboard on it. Having one on my NIT is something I very much look forward too.

I would agree that "no rotating platter HDD" is a good goal... but a solid state HDD, in a 1.8" form factor ... if it doesn't really alter the physical profile (size, weight) of the NIT, doesn't eliminate the keyboard, nor affect the screen size? Then, I'm ok with that.

I'm ok with no camera. If there's going to be a camera, I'd prefer a picture cam over a chat cam. I have no real need/use for a chat cam.


on WWAN support ... I wouldn't mind seeing a version of the NIT that is WWAN enabled (EVDO, WiMAX, and/or HSDPA/HSUPA versions). I don't want to have to carry an extra device just to tether my NIT. It doesn't need to have cellular voice capability; SMS/MMS would be good, but Data only would be fine. And, if Nokia and Qualcomm ever bury the hatchet, didn't Qualcomm just come out with a chipset that could do all 3 of those WWAN protocols? So maybe it'd be one device. As long as you can still buy and use it without a WWAN service (so you can use it as a WIFI/bluetooth only device, just like the N800 and N810). If they had 1 wireless chipset (Wifi, bluetooth, WiMAX, CDMA/EVDO, GSM/GPRS/EDGE/HSPA) then it hopefully wouldn't even take up that much room.

mbrinkhues
2007-12-13, 20:29
Antilles: This is the "What would you like" Thread. That's what I'd like. If Nokia can deliver, fine. If not, well Hello Asus/HTC/Samsung...

As for the 6-7'' display: I would have no problem fitting at least a 6'' unit in my coat or jacket pocket. Actually the N770 is too small for it and jumps around in my trenchcoat pocket. And enlarging it would allow for a larger battery so that problem would be solved just as well

Case: I never used the stand that came with the N770 and I never missed it. A strong, solid cover over the unit OTOH allowed for quite a bit of "carefree" treatment. Like simply dropping it in a attache case, trenchcoat pocket etc. Sure, I could buy an extra case (maybe Nokia even starts selling them) but why should I?

Keyboard: I obviously disagree here. Aside from the fact that I earn a living with computers since the mid-80s and still can't touch-type (and NEVER missed it) external keyboards take space. Carrying the tablet left and my papers right balances my coats and jackets nicely. But there's little space for another blocky tool. So it's back to an attache case. And if I carry one of those, I might just as well get an EEE (Bigger screen and all)

Telefone: Carrying around another brig (and I need a phone that a grown-up can dial on) is another "thanks but no thanks" criteria. I am quite willing to accept a card slot and an optional card here like some older PDA but in that case I at least need the slot and software support for a standard card

Not my device: Currently that is true. That's why I made wishes here. Maybe I get them fulfilled and buy an N9xx, maybe March 2009 sees my getting another WiMo (Contract renewal time)

GeneralAntilles
2007-12-13, 20:58
I would agree that "no rotating platter HDD" is a good goal... but a solid state HDD, in a 1.8" form factor ... if it doesn't really alter the physical profile (size, weight) of the NIT, doesn't eliminate the keyboard, nor affect the screen size? Then, I'm ok with that.


In terms of mobile devices, this is still called "flash", the only reason it's referred to as a "hard drive" is because you can drop it in as a replacement in desktops PCs and they didn't want to confuse the issue for those users. There's no such thing as an SSD "Hard Disk Drive". :)

Realistically, though, there simply isn't enough room (or battery power) to stick one of those in the NIT lineup.

Antilles: This is the "What would you like" Thread. That's what I'd like. If Nokia can deliver, fine. If not, well Hello Asus/HTC/Samsung...


"What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?" is the name of the thread, and this implies a couple things: A. It's an N-series device and the successor to the N8x0s, so it has camera, it follows a similar formfactor and feature-set, and it is pocketable, and B. The requests are realistic (8 hour "in-use" battery life, and giant screens are not. More backlight = less battery life).


As for the 6-7'' display: I would have no problem fitting at least a 6'' unit in my coat or jacket pocket. Actually the N770 is too small for it and jumps around in my trenchcoat pocket. And enlarging it would allow for a larger battery so that problem would be solved just as well


I live in Florida, I'm usually in shorts and a polo, I don't have massive pockets and I'm not interested in carrying around a device I could kill somebody with. Really, if your pockets are so freaking huge, what's the problem with getting a foldable bluetooth keyboard? Enlarging the screen also increases backlight power consumption, so, net-net, you probably end up at about the same place. :)


Case: I never used the stand that came with the N770 and I never missed it. A strong, solid cover over the unit OTOH allowed for quite a bit of "carefree" treatment.


I didn't either (and it's "770"), but the N800/N810's kickstands are invaluable and I wouldn't give them up for a semi-useful hardcover.


Telefone: Carrying around another brig (and I need a phone that a grown-up can dial on) is another "thanks but no thanks" criteria. I am quite willing to accept a card slot and an optional card here like some older PDA but in that case I at least need the slot and software support for a standard card

A phone should be a phone and an internet tablet should be an internet tablet. We're not at the point technology wise where a full convergence device really makes much sense. Besides, I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't want to hold a device with a 6-7" screen to the side of my face. :rolleyes:

mbrinkhues
2007-12-14, 10:59
Well guess we disagree here about realistic as well as clothing. Since realism is always based on perspective, from my PoV a lot of the things ARE realistic. And with Nokia being from the colder parts of Europe they might agree. Heck, they might build one to fit in a rubber overboot given their background

Starting with the form factor since I don't wear shorts anywhere I carry a computing device that is of little concern to me. And likely for the majority of users. And backlight was actually turned quite low on my N770 so I doubt it's that much of a problem either, most people use this under resonable lighting conditions. I got around four hours from the unit so 7-8 with a bigger batterie seems resonable and fitting it in a 6'' unit seems doabel

Given the changes between the three tablets so far I don't think form factor and camera are chiseled in stone either. Strange but the N770 had no camera and the N800 has no slide out keyboard.

Value of the stand seems to vary a bit between users. If you have read what I posted, I haven't used it ONCE in the two years I had a N770 and never missed it.

And strangely there are companies that CAN deliver a tablet sized device with phone capacities. Either build-in from factory or delivered through an add-on card. And have a decend battery life too. As for the size, have a fish, last time I looked there was that thing called a "Bluetooth headset". I need one anyway for a phone since thats the only legal way to use it in the car. Now granted this is HighTech and might not have made it to the USA.

Slawek
2007-12-14, 11:23
Hello,

I want to say sorry for not reading the whole thread but it is already 24 pages. I am new N800 owner and the improvements for N900 I see would be:
- as thin as possible (drop the keyboard from N810)
- docking station (so it is always charged while using at home)
- let the touchscreen be a bit more sensitive (I tried iPod Touch so it is doable)
- use graphics hardware which is built in, make 3D API and make it available to developers
- stick with the same hardware, increase the clock frequency to keep up with time but do not change hardware platform (so current owners can taste the future by upgrading to the new OS)
- I heard that OS2008 is already more finger friendly and more responsive so it seems to be something Nokia knows already

Thanks,
Slawek.

johnkzin
2007-12-14, 19:14
In terms of mobile devices, this is still called "flash", the only reason it's referred to as a "hard drive" is because you can drop it in as a replacement in desktops PCs and they didn't want to confuse the issue for those users. There's no such thing as an SSD "Hard Disk Drive". :)

Realistically, though, there simply isn't enough room (or battery power) to stick one of those in the NIT lineup.


This isn't a formal publication :-) Whether it is formally true or not, the products do get referred to as "SSD HDDs" out in the general market.


I didn't either (and it's "770"), but the N800/N810's kickstands are invaluable and I wouldn't give them up for a semi-useful hardcover.


They're not mutually exclusive.

A tilt screen device could have the advantages of a kick stand (the ability to lay it on a table, and still have the screen at a usable viewing angle), and still use a 770 style slide-on hard cover when closed.

The kickstand, IMO, isn't the goal. The goal is "usable viewing angle(s) when laying on a flat surface". A kickstand is only one way to accomplish that. IMO, a tilt screen is a better way to accomplish it.

aki
2007-12-15, 01:19
- A2DP/headset support but also pass through support for headsets. The blueye does this somewhat. I tether via my phone but listen to music with the tablet. If I receive a call, I have to fish out the phone and answer. What if the call was routed through the tablet and I could answer using the headset. (I'm thinking of playing with bluez to see how possible this is but I'm certainly not capable of doing anything more than a fragile hack at best)

- Portrait mode for the screen. It's absolutely wonderful for FB reader, I'd love to have something like that for the browser at the very least.

- Greater keypitch, more tactile buttons, ability to configure the keys easily (I'm using the unit to code and it's a little pesky to hit the Chr button for "{" and "[") I'll probably change the keyboard mapping as soon as I figure out how to.

- I'd love to be able to plug the usb cable in without dropping down the stand. When I get to work, I'd be able to leave the unit in it's slipcase.

- ... that said, a hard cover would be appreciated.

- Would also be nice to have encfs loaded. Emails I get sometimes have client passwords. I also use ssh keys quite frequently. In the event of loss, I'd like to be fairly confident that I'm not going to be responsible for compromising someone else's system. (I know, it's bad to have such things anyways, but convenience factor! 0:) )

GeneralAntilles
2007-12-15, 01:52
IMO, a tilt screen is a better way to accomplish it.

********. A tilt screen manages to both significantly decrease durability while reducing internal component space. It is a bad design and should stay out of the IT lineup. :)

reefdiver
2007-12-16, 16:54
1) Include voice turn-by-turn nav software. I'll gladly pay for updates.

2) Better GPS - although I don't mind having an external BT one in my car. Hate how long the internal one takes to synch.

3a) A simple docking port - a home and a car version. For charging, speakers, and perhaps a standard kbd.

3b) A separate iPod docking adapter might be a nice touch. This would provide most of what I want - charging and speakers. Would allow the use of thousands of existing iPod docking devices.

4) Have the slide out keyboard slide out 1/2" more and give the numbers their own row of keys! Not having is a real PITA since there is only a left hand "fn" shift key. This would incidently probably allow for a right hand "fn" key as well - it would still be useful.

5a) For heavens sake - the screen is 800x480. Give the thing a powerful enough video processor to handle full DVD (720x480) resolution. And support more protocols while they're at it.


5b) Nokia might consider including pc and mac software to properly convert DVD's (vob files) to DivX (and support it) at various resolutions (the Media Converter download has some problems...)

5c) I'd happily accept a 1/8 increase in thickness to accomodate better video handling, perhaps just adding a more powerful CPU. With that much space they might even be able to add more internal memory (even 4gb would be nice),an additional full size SDHC (vs the miniSd), and a video out port. Or perhaps the extra 1/8" would allow for a better GPS.

6) V & H scroll wheels or touch scroll bars on the front or side of the case. Unlike the iPhone and iPod Touch, the recessed screen makes it almost impossible to use your fingers for scroll bars on the sides and bottom of the screen. Applications could assign desired controls to the scroll wheels. Of course, alternatively Nokia could goto a flat case/screen front like Apple.

7) Include PPTP out of the box. I really want to be able to VPN home and use rdesktop to access my windows desktop. Maybe just takeover and support the old stinghorn software and build it into OS200x

8) Include a useful Java out of the box. This would really get the business applications rolling. I have a bunch of specific business products I'd like to put on this thing and have no desire to continually cross-compile - or actually program on Linux for that matter.

9) Perhaps Optionally allow you to buy with Windows Mobile - or figure out how to get a .Net CLR on this thing. A removable OS card might be nice.

10) As for wi-max, I don't mind being tied into Sprint if I want phone connectivity, but still want it to work with public wi-max and wi-fi networks. Otherwise, I don't mind sticking with connecting through my own BT phone. In fact, I'd prefer it.

11) Simple voice command recognition software (don't need continuous speech).

johnkzin
2007-12-16, 17:09
********. A tilt screen manages to both significantly decrease durability while reducing internal component space. It is a bad design and should stay out of the IT lineup. :)

Sorry. Don't agree.

1) the AT&T Tilt doesn't appear to have left out a lot of functionality, and its smaller than the NIT line; I haven't heard complaints about it being fragile (nor do the dummy phone versions of it feel more fragile than other sliders).

2) the proposed Nokia patent tilt screen doesn't look fragile at all, the use of the 2nd piece the forms the screen's "kickstand" looks like it would support the screen quite nicely, and shouldn't be any more fragile than the little whispy kickstands on the N800 and N810.

johnkzin
2007-12-16, 17:27
3a) A simple docking port - a home and a car version. For charging, speakers, and perhaps a standard kbd.


One of the things that the Nokia tilt screen patent application would do is not hide connectors behind a kickstand (a good reason to loathe the kickstand based designs), letting people develop some form of docking cradle for it.

Moving the micro/mini USB to the bottom edge of the device, instead of the right edge, you could have the docking cradle basically provide a powered USB hub (for keyboard, Audio via USB, Video via USB, external storage devices, etc.), and perhaps one or two full size SDHC card reader slots.


4) Have the slide out keyboard slide out 1/2" more and give the numbers their own row of keys! Not having is a real PITA since there is only a left hand "fn" shift key. This would incidently probably allow for a right hand "fn" key as well - it would still be useful.


If you look at other keyboard slide devices, in a cell phone/pocket size, you'll pretty much find the same arrangement: letters only, and numbers provided via a symbol/fn key. I sometimes wish for a number row on my phone, but it's not really an issue 90% of the time. What I am more annoyed by is that every device seems to have a unique mapping of where they put each symbol.


5b) Nokia might consider including pc and mac software to properly convert DVD's (vob files) to DivX (and support it) at various resolutions (the Media Converter download has some problems...)


I wonder if there'd be legal issues there.


6) V & H scroll wheels or touch scroll bars on the front or side of the case. Unlike the iPhone and iPod Touch, the recessed screen makes it almost impossible to use your fingers for scroll bars on the sides and bottom of the screen. Applications could assign desired controls to the scroll wheels. Of course, alternatively Nokia could goto a flat case/screen front like Apple.


I agree about getting rid of the bevel, no matter what is done here.

On the N800, I _can_ use the scroll bar with my thumb, when using the RSS reader. I _cannot_ use it the scroll bar with my thumb when using Opera. And that is a HUGE annoyance (esp. since the RSS reader often invokes Opera when you want to read more about an article). Consistency here is _mandatory_.

I would prefer to see better inertial finger scrolling (as with the iPhone and iPod Touch) over dedicated touch scroll bars (that's what the OQO does, right?). And I would prefer to explode in to flames over scroll wheels.


7) Include PPTP out of the box. I really want to be able to VPN home and use rdesktop to access my windows desktop. Maybe just takeover and support the old stinghorn software and build it into OS200x


An included, GUI configurable, VPN would be good. I wonder how hard it would be to support the 2 or 3 major variations/standards (I could probably do PPTP on my own, but work supports a particular standard that isn't PPTP, and I'm not recalling what it is).


8) Include a useful Java out of the box. This would really get the business applications rolling. I have a bunch of specific business products I'd like to put on this thing and have no desire to continually cross-compile - or actually program on Linux for that matter.

9) Perhaps Optionally allow you to buy with Windows Mobile - or figure out how to get a .Net CLR on this thing. A removable OS card might be nice.


I agree with supporting Java. I do not agree withs supporting .NET nor Windows of any flavor.


10) As for wi-max, I don't mind being tied into Sprint if I want phone connectivity, but still want it to work with public wi-max and wi-fi networks. Otherwise, I don't mind sticking with connecting through my own BT phone. In fact, I'd prefer it.


If the GPS philosophy carries forward (you wont be forced to buy a subscription/service if you don't want to), then this should be exactly what you get: for-pay WiMAX services (and for-pay Wifi services, for that matter) are entirely optional.

johnkzin
2007-12-16, 17:29
Just wanted to point out that the Toshiba Portege G910/G920 smartphones are doing exactly what I've been recommending that Nokia does, camera-wise:

2 cameras. One facing outward from the screen, toward the user ... one on the back, for taking pictures.


http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/16/toshibas-portege-g910-g920-go-fcc-followup-to-the-g900-super/

GeneralAntilles
2007-12-16, 18:57
5a) For heavens sake - the screen is 800x480. Give the thing a powerful enough video processor to handle full DVD (720x480) resolution. And support more protocols while they're at it.


It's called "OMAP3430" and it will solve all of our video troubles. The LCD controller on the next generation OMAP cores can handle the 800x480 resolution without the need for a bottlenecking custom LCD controller.


5b) Nokia might consider including pc and mac software to properly convert DVD's (vob files) to DivX (and support it) at various resolutions (the Media Converter download has some problems...)


They already did this (though there's currently no OS X port).

blackoper
2007-12-31, 11:06
1) wimax - I'm in a large city so it will be here soon - if possible a simcard slot for optional cell access
2) 2x SD card slots
3) larger screen size
4) Battery life - make it thicker if you have to but it needs 15 hours of battery life when being used with networking active
5) interoperability with android
6) updated gps chipset for faster sync and lower power usage
7) video playback/processor upgrades/larger internal and faster access memory

johnkzin
2007-12-31, 15:05
re: WiMAX (mentioned several times)

At CES next week, there will be a Sprint/Intel WiMAX presentation. There's some buzz on engadget that that's where we'll see a WiMAX EeePC revealed. I'm kinda hoping/wondering that we'll also see the WiMAX NIT unveiled there as well.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/31/asus-to-unveil-next-gen-eee-pc-with-wimax-alongside-intel-and-sp/