The EPIC N9 anticipation thread [Archive] - Page 22 - maemo.org

shallimus

2011-06-15, 18:07

Except Elop said back in February that he was using Meego for future disruptions. So if they are pitching it as a market disrupting device it is not unreasonable to expect it to be Meego. And consider what exactly is disruptive about a WP7 device, it is not like it would be the first WP7 device anyway.
My post was slightly tongue-in-cheek. Slightly.

Ah, see, I want it to be a MeeGo/Harmattan/whatever device so much. However, there's this faint memory of having been fooled by Nokia promises^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H hints/leaks on this subject before. Also, the very recent departure for "personal reasons" of former CTO/MeeGo champion Green does not bode well.

I'm aware of the previous "market-disrupting device" reference, but then I'm also aware of Elop saying how MeeGo-on-Nokia progress inspired "confidence and excitement (http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/21/stephen-elop-talks-nokia-qt-and-meego/)" as late as the tail end of November 2010, and look how that turned out...

I don't think WP7 will be disruptive; rather, I think that the Nokia board believes/hopes/Koolaids that it will be disruptive.

1337INT13H

2011-06-15, 18:25

The way i see it is that nokia CEO statements for the new maemo harmattan with the words "disruption" or phrase "our next sense" or according to the invitation would figure that in fact the 21st event invitation is def relating to a maemo harmattan either dev "dali" or probability "lankku" more so.

Dave999

2011-06-15, 18:30

THE COUNTDOWN STARTS NOW:

6 Days to go!

1337INT13H

2011-06-15, 18:32

the official disclosure for the fcc for RM-680 "dali" device is up on 24th so could they be just announcing this device instead for development platform purposes at the event? Is it even possible? because is the consumer device ready yet? no because devs get a device first to work on play around with well before consumer device is released & this hasn't happened yet or has it. Have people here really been drive testing the lankku device? Well everyone is pretty certain that the slate device has been in the hands of few lucky people fr quite some time & i would not despute or disregard such acknowledgements or facts told. I dunno i think it makes sense that the lankku device is unknown & not much is known officially. so yeah it seems reasonable to draw all facts, statements, put the puzzle together & "lankku" device is the only device tha makes sense for this "disruption"

blipnl

2011-06-15, 18:40

The near-fact that this is a harmattan device wich will be meego compatible got me exited. Since the n95 the only devices worth having were Maemo IMO (for tech enthousiasts such as me). So there may be hope.

Then again, Nokia is an expert of letting people down.. we'll see soon

Dave999

2011-06-15, 18:44

Release date or nothing! :D To bad I don't is a major shareholder or chuck norris. I would been able to force them to release the phone.

tissot

2011-06-15, 18:45

I still managed to get some WP7 info though but you guys don't want to hear on here lol

I wouldn't mind some info.
Rumors are so slow nowadays over at MR forums. :D

1337INT13H

2011-06-15, 18:51

"Iwanttoknow" "Iwanttoknow"
Maybe nokia are just fattening us up for the kill
If this turn out to be a WP7 I will be fuuuuuurious!!!!
grrrrr...... arghhhh!!!! "Pulls hair out & screams" 3!90

mikecomputing

2011-06-15, 18:57

+2 mece, that's exactly what I was Told weeks ago by people in the know and I writ it in this thread and nobody believed me. Since I writ it it was confirmed by Z and K123, so I'm very confident. BTW my main source as declined to speak to me about Harmattan for last 2 weeks b/c this thread getting quoted all over the net, at End of May he said Just wait till June.
I still managed to get some WP7 info though but you guys don't want to hear on here lol

It doesnt mean people not trust you, Z or K123 but stuff can change as we have seen several times before.

Let us hope we will get some more info next week. I still is not sure ;)

But REALLY hope so we can get rid of those rumors some going on over a year now :-O

casper27

2011-06-15, 18:57

What are you on about???

1337INT13H

2011-06-15, 19:06

The BIG event someone must capture a super close-up macro very detailed pic unseen & src=url ...upload it directly to this forum!! anyone else agree with me please thank me!!!

I can not physically describe the amount of mental stress torture nokia will inflict upon my well being personally. It will be an epic momentous collapse of the maemo forums social structures & all it's member, affiliates etc...

Koajwujwer123

2011-06-15, 19:59

What i know is mid level phone on 21 and also small teaser of MeeGo phone. Maybe no official announced. Available in September same time as with new Symbian update too.

Dave999

2011-06-15, 20:03

Nooooooooo don't want to heat that

ZackMorris

2011-06-15, 20:03

The only thing that is really killing me is do I line up and figure out a way to buy a dev device, and then also get the consumer device if it is coming out 4 or so month after the dev device as well.

What will I do on the forums if the most active posts are about the Dali device and things are still up in the air about the Lankku ever coming out...I'd hate to buy Dali only for a few months later buy and use more the Lankku device...questions questions...

qole

2011-06-15, 20:07

The device will not be Unveiled in Australia or announced to World from there.
I've just heard there will be local gatherings in few Countries to the Let local Media and such get hands on with whatever Elop and Crew will Globally launch from Singapore.

Has anyone outside Australia received an invitation to a "local event"? The Australian invitation really suggests that it will be the Big Reveal, with phrases like "unveiled and demonstrated for the first time."

I've been so very disappointed about how things have gone with the Nokia / MeeGo situation since the first depressing announcement of the Maemo - MeeGo change. I realize now that the creation of MeeGo was the launching of a life raft from the sinking Linux division inside Nokia, it is just so sad that they couldn't get their stuff together and save the ship.

I believe if the Maemo team had been faster to market with devices in the years since the N810, the mobile landscape would be a completely different place today. But they've somehow gotten stuck in the "too little too late" rut, and I believe it not only killed Maemo, it precipitated the Elopocalypse.

:(

Koajwujwer123

2011-06-15, 20:07

shallimus

2011-06-15, 20:07

What i know is mid level phone on 21 and also small teaser of MeeGo phone. Maybe no official announced. Available in September same time as with new Symbian update too.
Even if 123 had no pedigree, it's plausible because it involves yet another disappointment for anyone who wants more Linux-on-Nokia :rolleyes:

1337INT13H

2011-06-15, 20:26

Same os.. why you worry so much :P i dont think u buy Dali. I no think anyone can buy Dali

I was just relaxing in my "Happy Mood" to "Pink Floyd" only to awaken NEWS I did not want to hear. Where is our Choice?

catbus

2011-06-15, 20:46

What i know is mid level phone on 21 and also small teaser of MeeGo phone. Maybe no official announced. Available in September same time as with new Symbian update too.

Thnks K - So I just go first to Provinssirock. Then is coming midsummerparty in ch. Then july, vacation. After that is only August before "lankku"? Right? :D

suy

2011-06-15, 20:52

What i know is mid level phone on 21 and also small teaser of MeeGo phone. Maybe no official announced. Available in September same time as with new Symbian update too.

My bet would be that the OS is unveiled first running on the dev device, and maybe in the same week they unveil Qt Components tech preview or beta, plus an update to the Qt SDK to target Harmattan in addition to Maemo 5.

If they want to release the device in September, announcing the device on June is too early, but unveiling the OS would be OK (Apple announced iOS 5, but no iPhone 5 after all, and they are the ones that master the art of creating hype around your product).

And now some wishful thinking (not a forecast, just a pipe dream): On February, I thought that "MeeGo is for future disruptions" was stupid PR talk. Now I still see the word "disruption" used in Nokia Conversations (http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/14/graphene-nokias-future-super-material/), and so on. Maybe Elop is not that stupid after all. Maybe he still bets on MeeGo, but wanted to buy it some time adopting other OS in the meantime. Adopting Android would mean the death of WP, and the coronation of Android as king of the world, so it would be a too strong enemy for MeeGo. Right now is "a three horse race", so MeeGo has two powerful enemies instead of one almighty one.

I still think that WP is a bad idea. If I were Elop, I would say that the company is slowly replacing Symbian with Android and MeeGo. Why? Because the OS is no longer the ecosystem. The ecosystem is Qt, and with Qt developers almost don't have to worry about the OS choice, and users will have up to date applications. But well, I'm a Qt fanboy, so it's only logical that I think this. :)

BigBadGuber!

2011-06-15, 20:58

I doubt that WP7 phone will be announced in Singapore. They want the american market and I think that WP7 will be announced in US. Meego or whatever phone will likely target Asia, hence Singapore

1337INT13H

2011-06-15, 21:37

Theres no place like 127.0.0.1

vivmak

2011-06-15, 21:38

Signature on Sallimus's posts says it all:

"If I wanted an iPhone, BB, Android or WP7 phone, I would have bought one already."

At least for me it is true.

kanishou

2011-06-15, 21:44

My bet would be that the OS is unveiled first running on the dev device, and maybe in the same week they unveil Qt Components tech preview or beta, plus an update to the Qt SDK to target Harmattan in addition to Maemo 5.

If they want to release the device in September, announcing the device on June is too early, but unveiling the OS would be OK (Apple announced iOS 5, but no iPhone 5 after all, and they are the ones that master the art of creating hype around your product).

And now some wishful thinking (not a forecast, just a pipe dream): On February, I thought that "MeeGo is for future disruptions" was stupid PR talk. Now I still see the word "disruption" used in Nokia Conversations (http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/14/graphene-nokias-future-super-material/), and so on. Maybe Elop is not that stupid after all. Maybe he still bets on MeeGo, but wanted to buy it some time adopting other OS in the meantime. Adopting Android would mean the death of WP, and the coronation of Android as king of the world, so it would be a too strong enemy for MeeGo. Right now is "a three horse race", so MeeGo has two powerful enemies instead of one almighty one.

I still think that WP is a bad idea. If I were Elop, I would say that the company is slowly replacing Symbian with Android and MeeGo. Why? Because the OS is no longer the ecosystem. The ecosystem is Qt, and with Qt developers almost don't have to worry about the OS choice, and users will have up to date applications. But well, I'm a Qt fanboy, so it's only logical that I think this. :)

Yes, unfortunately it doesn't work that way. The ecosystem is still the OS. Nobody so far has proven that you can successfully abstract it away, and there is nothing about Qt which indicates that this will change. Qt makes porting easier, but that's all.

Android would have been a horrible choice, because it lacks the style and exclusivity needed by Nokia if they want to have any chance of returning to former glory.

If they can kickstart WP7, and at the same time shake up the market with an innovative device that is somewhat ahead of its time, then Nokia is going to be back on the map.

It's a bold plan that can very easily fail, but Elop certainly is more likely to pull this off than his predecessors. I'll remain hopeful that jumping of the platform may lead to new grounds in the end, until the sharks have had their meal.

Faustino

2011-06-15, 21:44

i have played around with HTC desires.. and although they seem fast and snappy at first.. they freeze a hell of a lot.. the internet browser is a piece of........ poo..

There's nothing about an iPhone 3,4 or 5 that i want or need (and have grown to despise Apple anyways)..

So what choice does that leave... it's either Maemo/MeeGo or.. Windows Phone for me..

Here's a serious question.. what will MeeGo do that WP7 won't?

vivmak

2011-06-15, 21:51

Here's a serious question.. what will MeeGo do that WP7 won't?

The famous blue screen, less bloated, open source and therefore a community support (look at the Ubuntu software centre, you name it and you have it for free) ....
I must admit that WP7 could (not necessary) bring in better UI and graphics compared to Maemo / Meego

Personally I don't want to use windows on my handset, need a bit of freedom or choices for lack of correct words from of M$ it already controls desktop to text editor to spreadsheet to presentation to project management to email to ....... thankfully I have switched away from outdated IE to FF or Opera...

shmerl

2011-06-15, 22:06

Android would have been a horrible choice, because it lacks the style and exclusivity needed by Nokia if they want to have any chance of returning to former glory.

MS's WP lacks it even more. And it's way more crippled than Android in political and technical sense. It's a totally closed platform, and MS doesn't release NDK for WP because of their monopolistic interests (thus making Qt port there impossible). Therefore the choice of WP wasn't wise for Nokia from all perspectives. If WP would have an NDK and Nokia could release a supported Qt port for WP - that would make some sense. But otherwise - no.

Here's a serious question.. what will MeeGo do that WP7 won't?

Meego is open, WP is closed and controlled by MS, who has one of the worst anticompetitve practices amongst other tech companies. The benefit of Meego - do what you want.

biatch0

2011-06-15, 22:06

I wish Nokia would just either confirm or deny the existence of the Dali/Lankku N9/N950 devices so I can decide whether or not I should upgrade my PC or save the cash for the Dali/Lankku.

In the words of a wise man, "The waiting is the hardest part".

Faustino

2011-06-15, 22:26

The famous blue screen, less bloated, open source and therefore a community support (look at the Ubuntu software centre, you name it and you have it for free) ....
I must admit that WP7 could (not necessary) bring in better UI and graphics compared to Maemo / Meego

Personally I don't want to use windows on my handset, need a bit of freedom or choices for lack of correct words from of M$ it already controls desktop to text editor to spreadsheet to presentation to project management to email to ....... thankfully I have switched away from outdated IE to FF or Opera...

Ah but all your points should also have applied to Maemo on the N900.. and what did we get.. 2 or maybe 3 firmware updates that didn't really bring anything new. So the track record doesn't really support what you are saying..

My N900 mainly gets used for communication so basically there are various IM's.. and web browsing.. i prefer the maemo browser to the firefox one.. never tried any other.. if IE is all that can be used on the WP7 then that could be a problem.. but otherwise everything else looks pretty good.

The UI for any MeeGo device would have to be very snappy to compete... and if there really is a device being released, i really hope it can compete..

I wouldn't take moving to WP7 lightly..

quipper8

2011-06-16, 00:14

bumping back onto the Active topics....

Faustino

2011-06-16, 00:20

This thread will be an active topic until a device is released... and if one is never released, it'll probably still be going strong... full of more bullplop than before :)

Frappacino

2011-06-16, 00:31

MS's WP lacks it even more. And it's way more crippled than Android in political and technical sense. It's a totally closed platform, and MS doesn't release NDK for WP because of their monopolistic interests (thus making Qt port there impossible). Therefore the choice of WP wasn't wise for Nokia from all perspectives. If WP would have an NDK and Nokia could release a supported Qt port for WP - that would make some sense. But otherwise - no.

Meego is open, WP is closed and controlled by MS, who has one of the worst anticompetitve practices amongst other tech companies. The benefit of Meego - do what you want.

Any why would mainstream consumers care whether an OS is open or not.....

uvatbc

2011-06-16, 00:52

Any why would mainstream consumers care whether an OS is open or not.....

Mainstream consumers will go starry eyed and squeal "ooh shiny" at any device that looks good without caring about the positive or negative points of said device - It doesn't matter if those points are based on the quality of hardware, or software or the openness of the the device or how the future is going to be shaped if you chose one type of device over another.

Then why bother?

From my pov, the reason I bother and so much want Meego and Linux to succeed as a mobile platform, is because I remember the not-so-ancient history where MS won over the desktop market and made it so that competition was stifled and snuffed out and innovation was limited to the path that MS allowed.

As a company, MS did what it should have done - increase it's bottom line. It ushered in the PC era. Kudos at a job well done. Apple is pretty much similar to MS in those respects.

I believe in balance. If the Apples and Microsofts of the world had complete control over the markets as once MS did, then there is no competition to keep them truthful.

I believe that Linux, Meego and the community that supports it, is the balance that will foster competition and innovation that will most benefit the users and consumers.

In summary, most consumers do not care about the future as much as they should when choosing a device. I do.
Maybe you should too.

misterc

2011-06-16, 02:34

before & pretty much since SF the FCC certification had to be for the so called developer device
whose function btw now seems to have been fulfilled by MeeGo 1.2 DE on the N900
why wouldn't RM-680 (if it isn't a Symbian device like all RM- devices before it) be the superdevice to be annonced in Singapore?

misterc

2011-06-16, 03:11

again, something actually needs to be announced before it can be vaporware

fogware then... :cool:

ever got lost in the fog in Scotlad? ¦-)
then again it'd be ghostware, wouldn't it?
¦-)))))))))))))))))))))))

jayhule

2011-06-16, 03:26

wmarone

2011-06-16, 04:52

I must admit that WP7 could (not necessary) bring in better UI and graphics compared to Maemo / Meego
Graphics and UI are a function of the people developing the upper level interface. They are not a function of the underlying OS unless the software stack is in some way fundamentally broken and, at least WRT MeeGo, it is not.

Any why would mainstream consumers care whether an OS is open or not.....
Mainstream consumers may not, but device vendors may. After all, Microsoft is basically throwing their weight around in the design of these devices, and both WP7 and Android make the hardware vendor play second fiddle to the OS vendor. With MeeGo, they have an opportunity to brand themselves without annoying the OS vendor.

And the whole "but the mainstream user doesn't care" argument is dangerous, since it justifies lots and lots of things that generally aren't good. You know, like forcing DRM on people (who don't know that it's enforcing restrictions on them.)

abbra

2011-06-16, 06:10

Mainstream consumers may not, but device vendors may. After all, Microsoft is basically throwing their weight around in the design of these devices, and both WP7 and Android make the hardware vendor play second fiddle to the OS vendor. With MeeGo, they have an opportunity to brand themselves without annoying the OS vendor.

Reality is, hardware vendors want to maximize their profits and minimize expenses. Their expertises are in hardware and logistics, not in software. Why should they spend money differentiating software from a commonly established OS in a certain ecosystem if the whole purpose of the ecosystem for them is to leverage software and appropriate market leg created by other participants? Phone makers in China, producing cheap Android phones, are no different and work well in this way -- many of those even don't support Android Market and don't care about apps being installed but rather glide on the Android trademark.

In each ecosystem there are few players who are willing to differentiate on all scales, from hardware to software to services. But they are very few and they subsume most of costs on sustaining the ecosystem. If it pays them off, that is brilliant. But I wouldn't expect the whole configurability and extensibility story would sell well to all hardware vendors. A cheap way to ride on off others would sell the ecosystem more than anything else.

Sorry to be blunt. :)

momcilo

2011-06-16, 08:01

All Quiet on the Western Front

Brock

2011-06-16, 08:23

You forget the iPAD, a phenomenal success

success doesnt mean disruptive. ipod was also successfull, but not disruptive... disruptive means something completly new and rules breaking, not successfull.

Brock

2011-06-16, 08:34

This screen talk reminds me of the "Haptikos" technology revealed years ago if old Nokia fans/followers remember. Was supposed to be cool new tech, but then dissapeared.

Search Haptikos or this link will help if not...

engadget.com/2008/07/08/nokias-haptikos-tactile-feedback-tech-revealed-in-patent-applic/

which screen talk? this haptics theme is a little old, check out jakimens sig... or even mine... we here are sure that it will have something like this...

kanishou

2011-06-16, 08:35

success doesnt mean disruptive. ipod was also successfull, but not disruptive... disruptive means something completly new and rules breaking, not successfull.

Which the iPad is, without a doubt. Tablets were considered a failed experiment, until Apple came out with theirs. Now the market is being flooded with new tablets, which follow the same formula. If that is not market disrupting, then I don't know what else is.

Vacaloca

2011-06-16, 08:41

Hi guys

More "internal" rumors about Nokia WM7 and Meego.

http://bit.ly/iDGaq6

PS
My first post in this EPIC thread. I'm thrilled:)

Brock

2011-06-16, 08:57

Which the iPad is, without a doubt. Tablets were considered a failed experiment, until Apple came out with theirs. Now the market is being flooded with new tablets, which follow the same formula. If that is not market disrupting, then I don't know what else is.

again, success doesnt mean disruptive. disruptive is something new and innovative. there were tablets before you could buy, regardless of how successfull is was. the ipad is just another tablet, but the first successfull. that means that apple has disruptive marketing (since ipod and/or iphone). thas what i understand with disruptive :)

but lets stop talking about apple, we have a better organisation here (maemo) ;)

Vinh

2011-06-16, 09:02

Which the iPad is, without a doubt. Tablets were considered a failed experiment, until Apple came out with theirs. Now the market is being flooded with new tablets, which follow the same formula. If that is not market disrupting, then I don't know what else is.

The same could be said for the iPod Shuffle. At that time period, everyone was trying to make small flash music players with tiny displays so that you can pick your song, work with some kind of visual interface. Apple put out a display-less player with minimal controls and advertised it as "life is random". Than came the copies...

But I agree, it is a market disruption... It took the focus away from netbooks, which people used in essentially the same way, as a very portable internet/media consumption device.

N9Us

2011-06-16, 09:22

Why don't you all just grab a cup of coffee and wait till June 21.
For all this bulshit that has been said in the last 3000 posts this thread has only 4 stars. its getting really lame and stinky.

jakiman

2011-06-16, 10:14

Well, I just spoke to another Nokian here in Sydney. He said he has seen and touched the device briefly. But he said he was under NDA so was very careful. So I tried not to ask him blunt questions which he cannot answer.

But I asked him if he was impressed by it. (fyi - he's a PC overclocker, into dslr photography and is a enthusiast/geek catageory) He said he was impressed. I asked him if the guys here would be impressed. He said he believes that we will be "quite impressed". What I forgot to ask was if what he saw will be what we'll get to see next week. (I just asked. Hope he says yes. :p)

btw, I'm going to the event now. So I guess I'll find out soon enough. =P

viic

2011-06-16, 10:21

who can we follow on twitter to have some news in real time when it will be the X day?

Helmuth

2011-06-16, 10:25

Looks like a poor try to seed fud if you ask what benefit could MeeGo give us compared to WP7...

Ah but all your points should also have applied to Maemo on the N900.. and what did we get.. 2 or maybe 3 firmware updates that didn't really bring anything new. So the track record doesn't really support what you are saying..

Look more carefully. We've got CSSU (http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU) at Maemo5.
http://wiki.maemo.org/images/0/0d/Cssu-108.png
I'm absolutely sure you will never ever see something like this at WP7!

And I'm sure I would reach easily the maximum post length if I would begin to enumerate all the stuff you can do with your N900 NOW that WP7 will never be able to do or Microsoft will never allow to implement...

But this depends always on the user... Are you a smart user or do you need a smart phone? It's up to you. :rolleyes:

momcilo

2011-06-16, 10:43

Look more carefully. We've got CSSU (http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU) at Maemo5.
http://wiki.maemo.org/images/0/0d/Cssu-108.png
I'm absolutely sure you will never ever see something like this at WP7!

Can you provide CSSU with the latest linux kernel without help from Nokia?
Are you sure you can do it in one or two years?

BTW: I am proven M$ hater.

neotalk

2011-06-16, 10:51

dali in australia?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13782645

raghu_mark

2011-06-16, 10:57

Just a blunt question to everyone,

what kind of apps should be developed by Nokia / Community for the upcoming device ?

I would like to see a Good twitter app ..

jakiman

2011-06-16, 11:03

who can we follow on twitter to have some news in real time when it will be the X day?

I'm sure I'll be tweeting (http://twitter.com/shootspeak) away a lot on that day using my trusty old N900 with twimgo.
(well, I'll also try to post pics at my blog if I'm allowed. =P)

I would like to see a Good twitter app ..

Test Lankku device already had a twitter app. (as well as facebook)
I only saw the icon in the launcher but at least we know it exists. :D

suy

2011-06-16, 11:21

Here's a serious question.. what will MeeGo do that WP7 won't?

Freedom.

Microsoft Bans Open Source From the Windows Market (http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/02/17/1429229/Microsoft-Bans-Open-Source-From-the-Windows-Market)

Plus, there is already Kontact Touch, or Marble To Go (mobile ports of important KDE applications). There will be for sure a decent amount of open source applications. The Harmattan UI or core apps might not be open source, but very important parts of the stack are.

There is also the standards support. The web and the office market is a rough place due to the use of MS proprietary formats. I can tolerate proprietary software that is compatible with good standards that make interoperability possible.

Helmuth

2011-06-16, 11:38

Can you provide CSSU with the latest linux kernel without help from Nokia?
You're able to replace the Kernel at your N900 at the moment. I'm sure this was without the help from Nokia. Same goes to USB-OTG and Overclocking... perhapy you can answer your question yourself with a little bit or research. ;)

Are you sure you can do it in one or two years?

If nobody takes the repos down, why not? :)

vivmak

2011-06-16, 11:41

Ah but all your points should also have applied to Maemo on the N900.. and what did we get.. 2 or maybe 3 firmware updates that didn't really bring anything new. So the track record doesn't really support what you are saying..

Why all my points be applied to Maemo on n900? It does not crash, it is light and runs easily on a CPU that is clocking at 600 Mhz, does multi tasking, has task switcher, I can kill an app that is not responding at anytime and there is no active process, havent got an anti-virus installed (in less than 15 seconds windows OS will be down if there is no ant-virus), I can write my own script in Python, shell script and now Qt without buying expensive licenses,I can pretty much see all the processes that are running thru terminal.

Talking about lack of support from Nokia on the device and OS, I am with you 100% but then I think they shouldn't have sold this experimental device to general public but there is CSSU now and I am glad they have come up with fantastic update. If the next device is going to be as user-unfriendly I am not going to buy it but M$ is out of bound unless it is out of the world.

And try using Opera on n900, it is a good experience, I don't use MicroB or Firefox anymore, text wrapping upon zoom and the stored tabs are great.

The UI for any MeeGo device would have to be very snappy to compete... and if there really is a device being released, i really hope it can compete..

I wouldn't take moving to WP7 lightly..

Agree with you 100%, MeeGo or Maemo6 has to be complete end user experience with all the features that I have used in a Symbian phone

Kozzi

2011-06-16, 11:43

Just a blunt question to everyone,

what kind of apps should be developed by Nokia / Community for the upcoming device ?

maemo5 emulator until all apps are ported to harmattan.

kanishou

2011-06-16, 11:45

Freedom.

Microsoft Bans Open Source From the Windows Market (http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/02/17/1429229/Microsoft-Bans-Open-Source-From-the-Windows-Market)

Plus, there is already Kontact Touch, or Marble To Go (mobile ports of important KDE applications). There will be for sure a decent amount of open source applications. The Harmattan UI or core apps might not be open source, but very important parts of the stack are.

There is also the standards support. The web and the office market is a rough place due to the use of MS proprietary formats. I can tolerate proprietary software that is compatible with good standards that make interoperability possible.

You can't possibly imagine how unenticing that sounds to a normal user. :)

Open Source prevails where and when developers understand that what matters is the end-result, not the philosophy. This has been true for Linux, Mozilla, and major libraries like WebKit.

Open standards and interoperability are desirable goals, but ones that are more and more shared by the big makers of proprietary software. Obviously someone like Microsoft is not going to be in a hurry to open up their formats, especially when everyone has already reverse-engineered them anyway. But if you look for example at what they are doing with Internet Explorer these days, you can see that they understand that they need to play well with others to be taken seriously.

Healthy competition is an effective way of keeping companies honest and highlighting the value of interoperability. Preaching however, is not.

momcilo

2011-06-16, 11:48

You're able to replace the Kernel at your N900 at the moment. I'm sure this was without the help from Nokia. Same goes to USB-OTG and Overclocking... perhapy you can answer your question yourself with a little bit or research. ;)

If nobody takes the repos down, why not? :)
The repos can be easily mirrored, or created new ones with legacy packages.

I will get to the point: Are you 100% sure that closed-source drivers will work with Linux kernel 3.0 (http://www.kernel.org/)? I've been following Linux kernel since 2.2.x series, and during that period at least two times the interfaces and functioning logic of drivers has been changed.

Yes I am aware that Stskeeps is dedicated to the further support of the binaries, and it seems that this is the best that can be done at the moment.

I am merely pointing out that your future support for CSSU DEPEND on Nokia.

In short: you have achieved limited victory, since your platform is still under corporate control.

marrat

2011-06-16, 11:52

maemo5 emulator until all apps are ported to harmattan.

Well, that would work basically... You would need a chroot environment just like Easy Debian, but with Fremantle inside instead of pure Debian...

Helmuth

2011-06-16, 12:09

I will get to the point: Are you 100% sure that closed-source drivers will work with Linux kernel 3.0 (http://www.kernel.org/)?
No I can't. And I don't know if this is really needed because I don't know if I really want to use a 600MHz Device after 2012. It runs well at the moment and currently it fulfilled mostly all of my needs. And thats it!

I don't see that WP7 is that flexible. Perhaps because of that it targets a different market and tries to get in direct competition with iOS. But not more.

And at iOS it's not even allowed to run a full working C64 emulator because of the dangerous BASIC interpreter language they must protect the user before. And I can see similarities at WP7.

erendorn

2011-06-16, 12:45

There is also the standards support. The web and the office market is a rough place due to the use of MS proprietary formats. I can tolerate proprietary software that is compatible with good standards that make interoperability possible.

Yep. I don't mind closed source software. But closed protocols, API, file format... well, closed interactions, are a huge pain for me.

I know that people don't care. But in the end, it's still bad for them, because hell no, companies do not want you to interact with competitors products (and yet even the "masses" would like to).

mece

2011-06-16, 13:01

Just a blunt question to everyone,

what kind of apps should be developed by Nokia / Community for the upcoming device ?

I would like to see a Good twitter app ..

I don't know what type of twitter app you like, but I intend to port Tweed Suit (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73490) as soon as I have the SDK :)

I also remember hearing there's some twitter functionality integrated.

LTman

2011-06-16, 13:10

are the drivers on this device gonna be open source

Donbabbeo

2011-06-16, 13:41

are the drivers on this device gonna be open source

Depends on the hardware.

TI Omap 3630? It sports the PowerVR SGX530, so Forget about video drivers, Imagination release only the kernel parts (because of the GPL License); i asked them about the Intel Medfield GPU drivers, and they gave me this answer. As far as i know, there is no chance that some user could download these (closed-source) drivers.

ST-E U8500? (I reeeeeally hope so) It use the ARM Mali 400, here (http://www.malideveloper.com/developer-resources/drivers/index.php) you can find the kernel and X11 parts, but you still need another part of the driver. [the big part of the driver]
This last part, unfortunately, it's provided under standard ARM commercial license, but, if ST-E is kind enough, we should be able to build a complete driver (but apparently not completely open-source, if the ARM commercial part is closed). [Forget about this]

EDIT: After some interesting mailing-list reads, the ARM Mali is not better than PowerVR. In fact ALL the Embedded GPUs use an open-source Kernel Base (they are forced by the GPL) and a closed-source User Base (where the magic happens). No difference from PowerVR, TegraGPU, Mali, Adeno or whatever.

momcilo

2011-06-16, 14:07

shady

2011-06-16, 14:23

and now im a developer for nokia, and have accepted the NDA ... really simple.

now lets hope that this helps my eligibility ;) if not, ill just buy the KB device. if anything itll be a stop gap till medfield.

Donbabbeo

2011-06-16, 14:33

After a myriad of devices (770, N800, N810, N900) based on closed source drivers, it is reasonable to ask Nokia to release device that is truly open to other distributions especially since they decided to abandon maemo/meego.

If any of such device that we are tease about has 100% open source drivers, I will buy it.

Otherwise I will simply ignore it.

I hope some of you would agree with me. :D

I agree, but unfortunately it's not a Nokia fault if drivers aren't provided.
You should ask them to ImgTec (PowerVR) because neither their customer are allowed to release downloadable drivers.

more here about Mali drivers (http://http://forums.arm.com/index.php?/topic/13792-mali-gpu-development-boards/)

As far as i can read here, ARM isn't interested in release complete open-source drivers. Considering that Intel SoC will use PowerVR graphics, there will be no open drivers.

daperl

2011-06-16, 14:36

After a myriad of devices (770, N800, N810, N900) based on closed source drivers, it is reasonable to ask Nokia to release device that is truly open to other distributions especially since they decided to abandon maemo/meego.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCFMDLakxaY

If any of such device that we are tease about has 100% open source drivers, I will buy it.

Otherwise I will simply ignore it.

Good luck with that.

I hope some of you would agree with me. :D

[silence]

momcilo

2011-06-16, 14:40

I agree, but unfortunately it's not a Nokia fault if drivers aren't provided.
You should ask them to ImgTec (PowerVR) because neither their customer are allowed to release downloadable drivers.

more here about Mali drivers (http://forums.arm.com/index.php?/topic/13792-mali-gpu-development-boards/)

EDIT: there was as small error in above URL.

As far as i can read here, ARM isn't interested in release complete open-source drivers. Considering that Intel SoC will use PowerVR graphics, there will be no open drivers.

That is true, it would be very difficult to extract source from Intel or ARM. But in that respect Nokia is a customer (big one), so they should be able to negotiate.

Let's not forget about Nokia's own drivers, that is the minimum that should be open sourced.

I think now is the best time to ask Nokia for drivers of a new device, before we buy devices and receive WONTFIXs.

I think this is not an off-topic question, since it is related to latest devices.

To daperl: I liked your earlier song arrangement. Please don't blame me for asking inconvenient question.

To Nokia: If you are about to abandon these devices, could you please let us taste some freedom?

Donbabbeo

2011-06-16, 14:55

That is true, it would be very difficult to extract source from Intel or ARM. But in that respect Nokia is a customer (big one), so they should be able to negotiate.

Let's not forget about Nokia's own drivers, that is the minimum that should be open sourced.

I think now is the best time to ask Nokia for drivers of a new device, before we buy devices and receive WONTFIXs.

I think this is not an off-topic question, since it is related to latest devices.

To Nokia: If you are about to abandon these devices, could you please let us taste some freedom?

You seem to not understand.
Nokia can't release nor negotiate 3d drivers of TI Omap. In fact, neither can TI, only ImageTec, the owner of PowerVR chips can. And they won't.
Doesn't matter if Nokia is a big customer, (btw it's not a ImageTec customer), Intel is a bigger one and can't negotiate.
The best you could obtain is some rev-eng opensource Gallium3D drivers (that in fact it's a high priority project).

Mali, that it's a ARM ip, could benefit A LOT of complete opensource drivers, but as far as i understand, considering this topic (http://http//forums.arm.com/index.php?/topic/13792-mali-gpu-development-boards/) they are no interest in providing such feature.

momcilo

2011-06-16, 15:01

You seem to not understand.
Nokia can't release nor negotiate 3d drivers of TI Omap. In fact, neither can TI, only ImageTec, the owner of PowerVR chips can. And they won't.
Doesn't matter if Nokia is a big customer, (btw it's not a ImageTec customer), Intel is a bigger one and can't negotiate.
The best you could obtain is some rev-eng opensource Gallium3D drivers (that in fact it's a high priority project).

Mali, that it's a ARM ip, could benefit A LOT of complete opensource drivers, but as far as i understand, considering this topic (http://http//forums.arm.com/index.php?/topic/13792-mali-gpu-development-boards/) they are no interest in providing such feature.

Thank you. I was not up-to-date on the particular subject.
:)

Can any of the insiders provide information if the rest of the drivers are open sourced?

Like wifi, battery charging and similar trivial thingies that are under Nokia's control?

[Silence again?]

zymo

2011-06-16, 15:06

okay ready for some news? it seems that nokia is sending out invitation to german, austrian and swiss bloggers.

it says (poor translation):

„Let us astonish you- and experience design in a new, endless dimension.“

Original in german:

"Lass Dich von uns überraschen – und erlebe Design in einer neuen, endlosen Dimension”

if someone is able to do a better translation, please feel free to change! :)

the meego austrian blogger (who was invited too) is 100% sure that Lankku/ION/N9 will be presented next week.

tissot

2011-06-16, 15:20

Like i said they will announce it in Nokia Connections and bloggers are able to test the device all around.
I'm liking the hype Nokia is trying to build to it's phone that got OS that playes second role inside Nokia, that is if this really is still about lankku, dali or both.

suy

2011-06-16, 15:29

You can't possibly imagine how unenticing that sounds to a normal user. :)

(...)
Healthy competition is an effective way of keeping companies honest and highlighting the value of interoperability. Preaching however, is not.

When I wrote my previous post, I already knew that the audience of the site is not "normal users". Is at least a group of users who know what free/open source software is, and at least some of the pros/cons.

I'm an atheist, but I understand that many if not all religions, claim that you will be punished with hell/bad karma/whatever if you behave "badly" (according to their beliefs).

When I introduce free software to people, I explain that in a totally pragmatic way. I don't "preach". It's just that I find that fighting for your rights as a consumer is hard, but better for you in the long term.

shmerl

2011-06-16, 15:51

Can you provide CSSU with the latest linux kernel without help from Nokia?
Are you sure you can do it in one or two years?

BTW: I am proven M$ hater.

This question bothers me about the upcoming device. If Nokia drops support (which is probable), does it mean the device will be stuck with outdated kernel because of lacking drivers for newer ones?

shmerl

2011-06-16, 15:55

You're able to replace the Kernel at your N900 at the moment.
How about GPU on the new device? I'm almost certain driver for it will be closed. And for now it'll be X11 driver. I hope it'll be possible to reuse it if Meego switches to Wayland. But what about newer kernel?

shmerl

2011-06-16, 16:03

But if you look for example at what they are doing with Internet Explorer these days, you can see that they understand that they need to play well with others to be taken seriously

Not really. For example they don't care about WebGL, since MS in general fights against OpenGL and pushes their Direct3D and XNA. So I doubt WebGL will ever make it into IE. They are forced to put some new stuff in IE, but it always will be late and outdated. So IE is really irrelevant as a modern browser even with all newest updates.

For example, I'd prefer to run Firefox (Fennec) on the mobile device. Meego is a good candidate for that, while WP isn't suitable at all because Mozilla can't even build Firefox for it, since MS didn't release the NDK. So here you have it - Meego does offer more choice for developers.

mikecomputing

2011-06-16, 16:11

The repos can be easily mirrored, or created new ones with legacy packages.

I will get to the point: Are you 100% sure that closed-source drivers will work with Linux kernel 3.0 (http://www.kernel.org/)? I've been following Linux kernel since 2.2.x series, and during that period at least two times the interfaces and functioning logic of drivers has been changed.

Yes I am aware that Stskeeps is dedicated to the further support of the binaries, and it seems that this is the best that can be done at the moment.

I am merely pointing out that your future support for CSSU DEPEND on Nokia.

In short: you have achieved limited victory, since your platform is still under corporate control.

atleast Maemo is most open platform so far. Btw. the closed stuff is more depend on external hwmanufactors and not Nokia like GFX driver/wifi etc...

mikecomputing

2011-06-16, 16:16

are the drivers on this device gonna be open source

ofcourse not, No manufactor will release a fully opensourced handset. Not even the drivers on a PC is fully opensource.

In case of the new device I think this will be closed:

wifi
gfx
modem
bme

mikecomputing

2011-06-16, 16:21

mikecomputing

2011-06-16, 16:29

This question bothers me about the upcoming device. If Nokia drops support (which is probable), does it mean the device will be stuck with outdated kernel because of lacking drivers for newer ones?

no take a look at MeegoN900CE my guess is the new devices will go that direction in a year or so wish is good :)

(If the new device will be released still I am not sure.........

BigBadGuber!

2011-06-16, 16:30

viic

2011-06-16, 16:33

shmerl

2011-06-16, 16:44

One could buy a KB device?

viic

2011-06-16, 16:57

thanks if they give me the dev device i gift it you xD

N9Us

2011-06-16, 17:06

you think you get a dev device only for registering as developer? LOL

zapotek

2011-06-16, 17:18

thanks if they give me the dev device i gift it you xD

no way!!:p

http://http://www.demotivation.us/newest/life/its-better-to-hear-no-straight-away-1250913.html

Dave999

2011-06-16, 17:25

you think you get a dev device only for registering as developer? LOL

What? Are you kidding? Of couse you can.

viic

2011-06-16, 17:29

i never think to can win something i am too unlucky

zapotek

2011-06-16, 17:32

me to i havent win something in my life :( :(

Dave999

2011-06-16, 17:33

viic

2011-06-16, 17:38

i am sure that they had already decided at who to give these dev phones ($$$)

shady

2011-06-16, 17:39

no, i actually wanted to make Qt applications, got a small game in mind so we will see :) ...

i didnt just sign up to sign up..

viic

2011-06-16, 17:45

i have already done a game and i am working on another one...
am i a developer?

Dave999

2011-06-16, 17:46

Yes, just get à free device

mikecomputing

2011-06-16, 17:51

Okey when waiting for the new disruptiondevice that maybe will be released:

Take a look at this and try it out. Alot of new apps included in the image :-)

http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.2.0.90.4.20110614.1.DE.2011-06-16.1/images/mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-testing/

try it and send bugreports to the good people making this work :-D

install guide here:

http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC

zapotek

2011-06-16, 17:51

yes, just get à free device

:d :d :d :d :d

viic

2011-06-16, 17:52

what must i write in "brief account description" and "products and services your account provides?"

LTman

2011-06-16, 18:02

looks like the developer program is being treated more like a lottey lol
p.s @ viic where did you learn to code

viic

2011-06-16, 18:04

ok i have registered but i cannot see any difference...how can check if my join at nokia developer has been done?

@LTMAN I'm autodidact, just download Qt SDK 1.1 and read tutorial( a lot of tutorial) and official documentation...but at school i have learned a little bit too on general developing...

tswindell

2011-06-16, 18:05

If the 92k number is correct, though I'm still hesitant to believe that figure. That is way to many just to give away to Maemo.org developers, so they probably plan on distributing to MeeGo developers as well, which is still probably quite a small number, so the rest may be left to lottery. Still, it's all guesses and rumours. Even this so called 21st announcement seems a little odd to me.

momcilo

2011-06-16, 18:09

ofcourse not, No manufactor will release a fully opensourced handset. Not even the drivers on a PC is fully opensource.

Not entirely true, 95% of drivers are open source. Exceptions like nvidia and ati, are getting away with it due to the limited number of vendors providing the required technology. :mad:

In case of the new device I think this will be closed:

wifi
gfx
modem
bme

I would add the magic-our-new-sense to the the speculation list. :D

Dave999

2011-06-16, 18:10

Lol 92k devices for free :D

momcilo

2011-06-16, 18:13

atleast Maemo is most open platform so far. Btw. the closed stuff is more depend on external hwmanufactors and not Nokia like GFX driver/wifi etc...

Well Nokia did choose those vendors. You know there are hardware vendors that have open source drivers. Altough GFX is a no-win situation at the moment, until open source alternative becomes available.

tswindell

2011-06-16, 18:13

Lol 92k devices for free :D

Exactly, sounds like complete ******** to me ;)

momcilo

2011-06-16, 18:15

Lol 92k devices for free :D

money for nothing and chicks for free.
:D

cfh11

2011-06-16, 18:20

Not entirely true, 95% of drivers are open source.

:confused::confused::confused: where are you getting this figure from?

momcilo

2011-06-16, 18:27

:confused::confused::confused: where are you getting this figure from?
I made a mistake, I don't count Window$ as OS, at least that I use.

Linux kernel source I guess? :confused:
Perhaps lsmod?

I've got one closed source driver in my machine - nvidia (and hope to replace it with nouveau).

All the remaining hardware has open source drivers. What about you?

N9Us

2011-06-16, 18:36

i'd say linuxdrivers are not from hardwaremanufactor its community work.
There are only few companies like intel that really provide open source drivers.

shmerl

2011-06-16, 18:42

mikecomputing

2011-06-16, 18:44

Well Nokia did choose those vendors. You know there are hardware vendors that have open source drivers. Altough GFX is a no-win situation at the moment, until open source alternative becomes available.

Show me any company that has fully open GFX drivers and is optimized for handset and usable. (That means not Intel)

mikecomputing

2011-06-16, 18:54

I made a mistake, I don't count Window$ as OS, at least that I use.

Linux kernel source I guess? :confused:
Perhaps lsmod?

I've got one closed source driver in my machine - nvidia (and hope to replace it with nouveau).

All the remaining hardware has open source drivers. What about you?

Wifi drivers is also a problem on PC. Intel is the only I know who has fully open wifidrivers.

and about the Nvidia or ATI open driver I dont expect those opendrivers to be that good as the closed once.

Mainly because trhe manufactors will never release full technical reference manuals etc...

But personally I dont give a **** if the manufactors doesnt opensource everything. Its more important to make them to understand they should MUST support Linux on desktop and on handset./tablets etc. even if they decide to have some binary blobs.

as long as they support Linux and X11/Wayland its good enought to me. Its another story with apps they should be open :-)

mikecomputing

2011-06-16, 18:57

I'm willing to pay for the device, why should it be free? But it's not so interesting to sign up for paid developer subscription (it seems like it's free for a year only).

Regarding "disruptive" part - if it's so disruptive and patented - big chances drivers for that will also be closed.

IF people here signs up without being a developer or contribute in some way to the Meego/Qt they really are desperate imho...

If people want new device "for free", start contribute to Meego900CE as start ;-)

momcilo

2011-06-16, 19:02

i'd say linuxdrivers are not from hardwaremanufactor its community work.
There are only few companies like intel that really provide open source drivers.
Many manufactorors are far more open than providing open source drivers, they open interface specification. This allows community to develop drivers.
How about IBM?
Sony (well I don't count closing of device itself)?
AMD?
The list is extensive, I don't plan on grepping the whole linux source code to prove it.

Show me any company that has fully open GFX drivers and is optimized for handset and usable. (That means not Intel)
True: 0, zero, none, null, nil.
I've commented before on this.

This thread is about latest devices. A part of anticipation is if nokia is going to pin us down with drivers to their distribution, so this is no off-topic.

Please, let's focus on finding out which parts are closed-sourced in the new devices?

So far we suspect:
- wifi
- gfx (already covered by many before, no new light there)
- modem
- bme
- disrupting-our-next-sense

Any other clues?

zapotek

2011-06-16, 20:00

here is the 720p screen :(

http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/15/exclusive-google-nexus-4g-detailed-720p-display-4g-lte-android-4-0/

aironeous

2011-06-16, 21:39

They will disrupt themselves in the process. The only recent disruptive devices in the past 5 years have been produced by Apple.

I know. Just give me a really good meego device and if they want it to be disruptive I'll stick a fart app on it.

ajalkane

2011-06-16, 21:53

I know. Just give me a really good meego device and if they want it to be disruptive I'll stick a fart app on it.

Uh, Maemo/Meego doesn't have a fart application yet?

This could be a deal breaker for me.

Dave999

2011-06-16, 22:02

its integrade in meego simular to skype integreation in the n900. Elop didnt like the fartapp, it was not good enough to compete with apple so he cancelled the n9...yeah...the rest is history

momcilo

2011-06-16, 22:14

its integrade in meego simular to skype integreation in the n900. Elop didnt like the fartapp, it was not good enough to compete with apple so he cancelled the n9...yeah...the rest is history

I guess it was not loud enough for him.
It was probably about his ego. :D

uppercase

2011-06-16, 22:22

All he got was a generic fart and he wanted to customise and create his own fart

Alee

2011-06-16, 22:35

aironeous

2011-06-16, 22:41

I'm expecting a lot from this "disruptive device." Here is my list:

1) It should come with a toothbrush attachment so I can stick it on vibrate and brush my teeth with it.

2) There should be a laser pointer, dog whistle, breathalyzer and pico projector in it.

3) It should have a knife attachment so I can put it on vibrate and cut chicken with it.

4) It should have an etching attachment so I can etch nasty comments on the back of my friends iphones.

5) When I say, "wonderphone powers activate" and slam it down on the table and say, "take the form of a dildo" it should just do it.

6) It should come with a case................of beer.

7) It should have been released on 4/20 in Amsterdam and came with a big fat joint to help us all get over the Elopacolypse.

8) It should have a wallpaper of it eating iphones.

9) Since it's the alpha phone it should know how to "fake it till you make it" and it should trick us into
believing it's running future meego without bug.

10) When my girlfriend calls it should splash random excuses and lies on the screen in case she asks what was I doing and why
didn't I answer the phone.

11) When my car alarm goes off it should go off too and flash, "someones stealing your car" on the screen.

12) It should have fart noise cancellation - the anti "fart app" app. So if I fart nobody knows it's me.

13) It should give sass to keep things interesting depending on how much sassiness I choose from the settings menu - no sass,
sassy, extra sassy and super sassy.
If I choose super sassy I should get an audio confirmation from Mike meyers.
Example ME: "Phone, google search meego tablet review." Phone: "Say please."

14) It should have a set of wings and propellers accessory so I can just slip them on and tell it to go fly to a gps
coordinate and come back with footage or I could just say, "find Mary, go boy!"

15) It should respond to me like the computers in star trek and address me as sir or mister and congratulate me when I *ahem "finish."

16) It should slide up and down on my johnson while vibrating and playing an animation of my favorite playboy bunny - slding up
and down on my Johnson.

17) It should double as a coaster.

18) I should be able to scan a sandwhich and have it tell me how much calories it has.

19) It should scan for life signs.

20) It should have echo location and warn me when I'm drunk and walking at night if a cop car is coming or I'm going to bump into something.

21) When I'm spending special time with my girlfriend it should use the accelerometer to measure my thrust strength and count
and compare it to a national database of males to see how I'm doing and it should filter out lesbians with toys that will try
to bloat the figures on purpose to hurt our egos.

22) It should have came with a kickstand ............. for my bike. It's a decent bike with monkey lights and bike speakers
and I'm tired of laying it on the ground.

23) The batteries should be from Chino not China, Chino not China, Chino...!!

24) When I score with a hot chick it should project a hologram that gives me a high five.

25) It should taste good when I lick it

26) It should be made out of liquidmetal so it's indestructible http://www.liquidmetal.com/index/default.asp
unless you leave it on top of a very hot oven.

27) When I toss it in the air with a flip to catch it again it should say, "Weeeeeeeee."

28) it should come with an attachment that lets me use it to play spin the bottle and a cheating app that lets me make it
point to the girl that I want.

29) It should hack my ps3 to make the games easier and convince that I'm a better player than I really am.

30) When I root it I should see Kunta Kinte on the screen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roots_25th_Anniversary_Edition.jpg

uvatbc

2011-06-16, 22:47

I'm expecting a lot from this "disruptive device." Here is my list:

<snipped>

You sir, are my personal hero. :D

Dave999

2011-06-16, 22:50

reasnable list. I excpect no less. Just one question on number 12. How do you handle the smell...

vivmak

2011-06-16, 22:57

You will have to buy an accessory from Nokia - bluetooth rnable dog :)

aironeous

2011-06-17, 00:21

reasnable list. I excpect no less. Just one question on number 12. How do you handle the smell...

You didn't see the notifications by nano mist patent nokia submitted?
I remember reading it about a year ago on USPTO.gov just search the patents with nokia and scent. I just assumed that was one of the "disruptive technologies" included in this amazing device.

HaugMedia

2011-06-17, 00:21

http://haugmedia.com/2011/06/16/with-no-maemomeego-theres-only-windows-phone-7/

I'm learning to write articles, in a non-native language. Slaughter me.

(Somewhat related to the thread....) :p

Frappacino

2011-06-17, 01:07

who cares for apple, it sucks to the core, the most mediocre company and devices ive ever seen, yet i appreciate the standards they set but its all eye candy and being slaved, you get just superior touch and you get deprived off all other major features , imho iCrap is dumb as compared to s40 feature phones ;)

This contemptous and blind attitude towards competition that is literally kicking your *** in the market place is what ensures that FOSS mobile devices will never gain traction.

You are a cause of the disease, not its cure.

bugelrex

2011-06-17, 01:53

Business week article on new haptics screens:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_26/b4234043549730.htm

interesting timing.... would be disruptive if true

south87

2011-06-17, 02:34

This contemptous and blind attitude towards competition that is literally kicking your *** in the market place is what ensures that FOSS mobile devices will never gain traction.

You are a cause of the disease, not its cure.

That makes no sense.

FOSS wont gain traction because your average consumer doesnt give a crap about the freedoms they lose with non FOSS (which is what FREE and OSS is all about).

railroadmaster

2011-06-17, 03:22

I don't care what the n9 has in terms of hardware or software I just care that Nokia actually releases a device with MeeGo at the specified date they promised and we don't get delay after delay after delay end up with more threads like this with hopeless anticipation of something that will probably never exist.

IcyMoustache

2011-06-17, 03:29

ok guys, open or non-open, let's accept that M$ has done some decent job with their UI in WP7... For one, they cared about the consumer, by building in the key "communication" features into their device well.....

Let's accept the fact that Nokia designed an incomplete contacts, calendar, and phone functionality in the Maemo5, and left us in the wild for 2+ years without any updates. I spent over 10 days trying to integrate my Office/Facebook/Linkedin into my N900 and failed. If there is something Nokia really needs to do well (and I hope it does) in the new Harmattan device, it is building in the core communication features well, and better integrated.

For me, any computer/ cell phone is a window to my social/ professional world... and I hope Nokia engineers are smart enough to know that 99% of the world is the same.

Thanks for the video Haugmedia...

ysss

2011-06-17, 03:35

That makes no sense.

FOSS wont gain traction because your average consumer doesnt give a crap about the freedoms they lose with non FOSS (which is what FREE and OSS is all about).

Right.

So for FOSS to foster, you need to acquire more market, you need to know WTF SELLS.

It's just like an RTS game. You need to conquer more areas (users, etc), because in the long run they will be pumping out resources (payment, spreading your gospel, making your app ecosystem run, etc) for your camp.

Frappacino

2011-06-17, 03:46

yea ysss - its so obvious and its mind boggling how the zealots miss it here

fact is - many of the posters here are as bad as apple fanboys - their religion so permeates their world they cannot think in a different manner.

its like fish not having a word for water - because that is all they know and they have been brainwashed as bad as Steve Jobs did his followers.

Oh and that example he quoted is incorrect - look at FireFox - a FOSS project that HAS made significant inroads against closed IE of M$ - people like it because it has better security, plugins etc... not because it was simply FOSS. HOWEVER these selling points were enabled by FOSS.

The key is to use FOSS to help drive features that are desired by mainstream users better then its closed source counterpart - but how can you do that when FOSS supporters like this continue to hold such users in contempt and deride them at every opportunity ?

its ironic that FOSS is primarily being held back NOT because Apple or M$ the evil empire, but by the blindness of its followers.

Yea keep thinking that you are "superior" in your little corner of the world - meanwhile, all your "evil enemies" are laughing all the way to the bank.

railroadmaster

2011-06-17, 03:48

Well Nokia is talking disruptive so here are some ideas.

300 dollars unlocked pricetag
32gb or 64gb storage plus dual full sized sdxc card slots
USB 3.0 host and slave capability
3ghz Quad Core ARM Cortex A15
4gb of ram
Less .4 milimeters thick
THe ability to use both 4g gsm or 4g cdma and have 4 sim card slot so one could use 4 carriers
5 row physical keyboard
Some magical touchscreen that allows both capacitive touch capability along with true stylus input and palm rejection
a screen ranging from 4.3inches to 5.5inches that is either 1024x600 or 1280x800
tilted screen or kickstand
20mp camera with dual Xenon flash with quad-hd video recording(2560×1440)
Can output to six quad-hd moniters
The ability to play Crysis :D
Quad-hd video editing
The ability to use as a server

I think this would be totally plausible to create at the price of 300 dollars :D

Hotshot

2011-06-17, 03:52

Give me meego, hardware keyboard, usb host and slave, dual sim card and the regular nokia hardware goodies and heil I'll do the rest. I'm what you call a "simple man"

shmerl

2011-06-17, 03:55

For one, they cared about the consumer...
Wrong. MS and Apple don't care about consumer - they care about grabbing more market and kicking off the competitors using uncompetitive practices instead of competing on merit. That's why their products come out not good for consumer, but good for them. Their approach lies in attempts to sell that off as if it's the best thing in the world.

ysss

2011-06-17, 04:02

The 'fix' for the following premises:

- The commercial competitors are cheating (by unfair business practices, unfair marketing edge, etc)
- The customers are clueless

Is to fix:

- The government and regulations
- Mass media
- The education system
- The human race

Which would also lead to World Peace (tm).

So I really really really suggest people to take a more practical approach, to be a little more realistic; and to think more strategically than to just yell, b*tch and moan against the world.

cheers :)

marxian

2011-06-17, 04:30

you keep drinkin that kool aid buddy

Mmm... Apple flavour. :) Wait a minute, this tastes like p1ss. :mad:

;)

jakiman

2011-06-17, 04:50

I wonder if there will be any demo devices that I can actually touch/use during the event? (considering the fact that Nokia Australia already have some of these devices in the office for some employees to try out) I really hope there are so that I can get a hands-on experience which I can share with everyone here. =)

erendorn

2011-06-17, 07:19

The 'fix' for the following premises:

- The commercial competitors are cheating (by unfair business practices, unfair marketing edge, etc)
- The customers are clueless

Making the customers not so clueless also works.

momcilo

2011-06-17, 07:33

Wrong. MS and Apple don't care about consumer - they care about grabbing more market and kicking off the competitors using uncompetitive practices instead of competing on merit. That's why their products come out not good for consumer, but good for them. Their approach lies in attempts to sell that off as if it's the best thing in the world.

Well that approach ****s. It is basically exploits the human vanity and the need of people to be socially accepted. The iPhone is the magic charm.

In this respect, I don't see any real difference to the people getting teased.

The 'fix' for the following premises:

- The commercial competitors are cheating (by unfair business practices, unfair marketing edge, etc)
- The customers are clueless

Is to fix:

- The government and regulations
- Mass media
- The education system
- The human race

Which would also lead to World Peace (tm).

So I really really really suggest people to take a more practical approach, to be a little more realistic; and to think more strategically than to just yell, b*tch and moan against the world.

cheers :)

Your comment is very realistic, and generally most of your comments are very well based (with the fragrance of irony and sarcasm - so I will risk of being a target of one).

In this case being practical, means not asking at all for the FOSS drivers. In fact it means accepting poor substitutes such as limited maintenance of binary blobs.

Sure, some will argue that the device will be obsolete in 2 years (so no big deal), and that new device will be bought, but that's their right to be good consumer. Nothing is wrong with that - it's a choice.

If you don't ask the girl (Nokia), she won't give it to you (unless off-course you are genuinely irresistible). ;)

In any case you can still ask other girls, if the first one makes your left cheek red, or repeat the experience with the right cheek.

Statistically speaking, eventually you get the score.

But back to the consumers.

Everybody talks about the cool new disruptor star-trek features (with Data being included as accessory), but almost nobody comments on the issue of drivers.

My question targeting the true "openness" of the new devices, has turned rather disappointing.

A very few agreed on the subject, but what worries me more is that even the negative or different opinions are rare.

It's like the majority of the population posting/following this topic, does not care or have any opinion on the subject.

You can group most of the post in following groups:

1. Fart applications, the fart application gets more attention, but that is natural, everyone can have opinion on the fart application (I've never had one, but I have formed opinion).
2. Elop-mania(!@^&@$!&^&) is not much more difficult as well.
3. The M$-Nokia deal opinion is a trivial thing, everybody knows about big-bad-M$
4. wishful thoughts about oncoming hardware (I admit that some of the comments are quite intriguing)

I may have missed something because of the epic size of this topic.

For the end about rudeness:

Being rude does not require too much effort. It is easy to find spelling/grammar mistakes, or call a person by the first name, or finding minor errors and using it as tool to beat the person into the pulp.

Among other things, the forums allows for certain anonymity with addition of detachment from reality. The nicknames are strings displayed in order to designate the dehumanized representation of fellow humans. Pulling the trigger is not difficult, there is no real consequence (I don't count banning), and there is no feeling of guilt, since you don't perceive the human at the other and.

One have to wonder if all if those people are behaving like that in real life.

I apologize for diverting this topic.

kanishou

2011-06-17, 08:01

In this case being practical, means not asking at all for the FOSS drivers. In fact it means accepting poor substitutes such as limited maintenance of binary blobs.

Sure, some will argue that the device will be obsolete in 2 years (so no big deal), and that new device will be bought, but that's their right to be good consumer. Nothing is wrong with that - it's a choice.

That's exactly it. Most customers are not being burned by the status quo, so there is limited demand for a change (especially if this change would likely be accompanied by other drawbacks).

And like you say, it's a choice. It is your right to make the choice to only buy devices with open drivers, if you truly believe that this will make a difference to you. But it is just your choice, and if others don't share your priorities, there is nothing you can do about it.

It is not a good idea to offend people who make differing choices ("vanity", etc). We all make more or less educated choices based on our own individual requirements. When customers are actually getting burned in tangible ways, then they _are_ taking notice and this will affect their buying decisions (as e.g. in the complaints about Android not being upgraded on many handsets).

I honestly don't know about the state of drivers on the new device (and frankly couldn't care less), but what I do know is that for all practical purposes, it is plenty open enough for me.

ysss

2011-06-17, 08:11

Making the customers not so clueless also works.

OMG that sounds so easy!

Please share with us the secret; how can you make them care enough to want to 'be less clueless' when they don't care as much about (the phone|their data on it|its os|the software licenses|FOSS) as we do?

Do you care about the brand\detail\spec of a kitchen appliance you may have to buy/rent? What about spoons n forks?

Now you have an idea of how much they care about 'techie stuffs'.

ysss

2011-06-17, 08:25

Your comment is very realistic, and generally most of your comments are very well based (with the fragrance of irony and sarcasm - so I will risk of being a target of one).

I'm sorry about the tone;
I'm too used to delivering dead-pan adianoetas :D

In this case being practical, means not asking at all for the FOSS drivers. In fact it means accepting poor substitutes such as limited maintenance of binary blobs.

Actually, my cannon was aimed squarely at that poster whom I quoted and replied to. In the subject of 'requesting source code from nokia/hardware producer', I just have a big vat of mixed feelings.

- It's been asked multiple times in the past.
- Knowing how the industry\players works, the chance of it happening is slim at best.
- Strategically speaking, we don't have a strong hand in this 'negotiation'.
- Recently, this topic was raised again by the 'village idiot' of this forum; so it leaves an especially bitter taste due to the ensuing riot caused by the messenger.

So anyway, asking (again) surely doesn't hurt; and if someone succeed in prying the codes off the (dead) hands of the dastards then I'll join y'all in the epic celebration that follows.

Personally, I would look at strengthening our hand so we can bargain better.

Btw, yes, I'm genuinely an irresistible flamebait.

You can group most of the post in following groups:

1. Fart applications, the fart application gets more attention, but that is natural, everyone can have opinion on the fart application (I've never had one, but I have formed opinion).
2. Elop-mania(!@^&@$!&^&) is not much more difficult as well.
3. The M$-Nokia deal opinion is a trivial thing, everybody knows about big-bad-M$
4. wishful thoughts about oncoming hardware (I admit that some of the comments are quite intriguing)

I may have missed something because of the epic size of this topic.

posts about:
5. Optimization scripts.
6. And those who've 'escaped' the grip of maemo and reported back their experience here..... only to be stoned :D

erendorn

2011-06-17, 08:57

OMG that sounds so easy!

That's where the "preaching" part comes in. May or may not work, depends on your oratory skill, and how you present it.

Because hey, there is no such thing as free marketing, especially not as in free beer, and for that you can forget anything about "quality" and "what people want". But word of mouth is the closest you'll get.

In the end, effectiveness of it still boils down to the same thing, understanding non techie people, agreed.

Edit:
And I could care of kitchen appliances, regarding the conditions of production, and quality of use (proprietary maintenance and all), aso, but I cannot find any forum on the topic :(

but I see what you mean : )

ossipena

2011-06-17, 09:05

ysss

2011-06-17, 09:18

That's where the "preaching" part comes in. May or may not work, depends on your oratory skill, and how you present it.

Most people I know hate to be preached at...

but I see what you mean : )

My point was that most people that are clueless toward maemo/linux/foss are probably just not interested. Not stupid people that can be 'educated' with a page of pdf and 5 minutes of their time. God forbid you point them toward a wiki about GNUs somewhere.

So you can preach all you want, but they may not want to hear you at all... unless you can somehow align your interests with them. Yep, there goes another bizspeak catchphrase that the consultants love.

rainmaster

2011-06-17, 09:24

so..... whats an n9?

Rauha

2011-06-17, 09:28

so..... whats an n9?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N9

My money is on "a road connecting Brussels and Ostend, passing Aalst, Ghent, Eeklo and Bruges".

rainmaster

2011-06-17, 09:46

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N9

My money is on "a road connecting Brussels and Ostend, passing Aalst, Ghent, Eeklo and Bruges".

all along I thought it was a motorbike :rolleyes:

kanishou

2011-06-17, 09:47

Most people I know hate to be preached at...

Moreover, there are about a million and three things more worthy to be preached about, like:

- Don't eat meat.
- Don't waste energy (i.e. turn off those devices already!)
- Don't produce toxic waste (i.e. don't even buy those devices!)
- Don't buy products manufactured in countries not respecting human rights (i.e. most technical gadgets)
- Donate.
- Volunteer.
- Don't consume processed sugars. (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html)
- Don't stay inside browsing the web, it's not good for you in the long run!

I do not think that a majority of Open Source zealots appreciates this kind of preaching.

In the end we decide that we need to compromise to live meaningful and satisfying lives, so we pick our battles carefully.

"Don't use devices with closed source drivers" is not going to be high on most people's list of battles to fight, and that is for rather good reasons.

misterc

2011-06-17, 09:59

déjà vu?

was looking for infos about LG's smart phones (by lack of any useful information about LG & MeeGo...) and came across a bit of history...
Bacelona Mobile World Congress (February) 2009;
LG & m$ just inked an agreement following which LG would have up to 50 (smart-)phones running m$ OS in 2012...

of course, history doesn't repeat itself, it only stutters, but...

N9Us

2011-06-17, 10:06

Average costumer doesn't give a crap about open source or not, as long as "it just works" ;)
And i hope N9 IS for average users, because else there is no future for maemo. It will be another n900, i don't want to spend my money (and im sure it will cost a lot) to have a device NOKIA doesn't care about.

Alee

2011-06-17, 10:07

This contemptous and blind attitude towards competition that is literally kicking your *** in the market place is what ensures that FOSS mobile devices will never gain traction.

You are a cause of the disease, not its cure.
its not the blind attitude, its the proven fact and truth. I must say it is a brilliant gadget, but only a fool will take it after they've used symbian, maemo or android, power users know that iCrap has no use to them, unless you want a useless fart app to get yourself satisfied....
cant you see, they arent doing any innovative thing, its all about developers, they dont have anything useful..they rely on apps and nothing else..heck you cant even use properly for calling someone, coz "you're holding it wrong"

on a serious note, i'd wait months for something rather than being told that im wrong.

erendorn

2011-06-17, 10:10

Most people I know hate to be preached at...

My point was that most people that are clueless toward maemo/linux/foss are probably just not interested.

So you can preach all you want, but they may not want to hear you at all...

How many people you know like adds? are interested by adds? want to hear adds?
Yet billion and billions are spent on advertising each year, so it might still work.
I still disagree on the fact that you have to align your interests on others. Companies don't.

misterc

2011-06-17, 10:10

[...]
"Don't use devices with closed source drivers" is not going to be high on most people's list of battles to fight, and that is for rather good reasons.

it may not be high on most consumers' lists, but on the lists of
- developers (Richard Green, Feb 2011, Nokia Developer Conf.)
- early-adopter tech geeks (Jo Harlow Executive Vice President, Smart Devices. Nokia)

EDIT: since when are "disruptive technologies" aimed @ consumers?

ysss

2011-06-17, 10:23

How many people you know like adds? are interested by adds? want to hear adds?
Yet billion and billions are spent on advertising each year, so it might still work.
I still disagree on the fact that you have to align your interests on others. Companies don't.

Do you know how (companies behind the) ads align their interests with the consumer's so they get their airtime? So they can force the consumers to look at the ads and be force-fed their commercial messages?

Basically they fund the shows.

The shows don't pay for themselves.

sunwong

2011-06-17, 10:25

misterc

2011-06-17, 10:29

Do you know how (companies behind the) ads align their interests with the consumer's so they get their airtime? So they can force the consumers to look at the ads and be force-fed their commercial messages?

Basically they fund the shows.

The shows don't pay for themselves.

how about this?
the disruptive technology to be announced in Singapore IS the advertisement to put back in the consumers' mind the association of NOKIA with technological progress in the smart phone market?
or in short, they are not ready to sell massive numbers of smart devices, but they are preparing their return.

kanishou

2011-06-17, 10:30

EDIT: since when are "disruptive technologies" aimed @ consumers?

Since forever. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_technology)

I am confused by your statement actually, what else would it be aimed at?

By the way:

Generally, disruptive innovations were technologically straightforward, consisting of off-the-shelf components put together in a product architecture that was often simpler than prior approaches. They offered less of what customers in established markets wanted and so could rarely be initially employed there. They offered a different package of attributes valued only in emerging markets remote from, and unimportant to, the mainstream.

You've got your definition of the iPhone and iPad right there.

erendorn

2011-06-17, 10:35

momcilo

2011-06-17, 10:36

Disruptive technology is by definition the kind of technology that makes products based on existing technologies obsolete in a very short time (like over one night).

Disruptive technology is every companies dream. In the past 20 years this term has finally reached the masses - it became a fancy buzz words (much like eco$i$tem is becoming now), and therefore it makes sense for a company with sufficient marketing resources to announce such technology for marketing reasons, because it promotes the company as technology leader (why buy Apple when it is Nokia that is the technology leader? Apple is not cool enough anymore).

misterc

2011-06-17, 10:42

Since the moment they are introduced within an appealing, highly polished, mass-market oriented device :)

I'm not saying that the N9 is all this, just commenting on that a disruptive technology can and actually has been aimed at consumers in the past. Both Nokia and Apple are good examples of it, each at its time.

don't agree w/ rotten iPotatos (iPhone?) being disruptive technologies.
long before the 770 / N8x0 or the 7710 were pure touch screen phones (& except for the N810s, without kbds), thus the technology wasn't introduced by rotten iPotatos.
they just picked it up & put it in a nice looking device.
just like the MacIntosh interface wasn't "created" by Apple, back in the 80s.
Xerox @ PARC came up w/ the idea.

NOKIA, disruptive technologies?
yeah, maybe
where do you draw the line?
770? yes, still disruptive technology
N8x0s? same
77x0? probably wasn't supposed to be only a technological showcase, was it?
Communicators? disruptive technology? precursors of the smart devices?

EDIT: N900 ???

misterc

2011-06-17, 10:49

Since forever. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_technology)

I am confused by your statement actually, what else would it be aimed at?

By the way:

You've got your definition of the iPhone and iPad right there.

i quote your quote

They offered less of what customers in established markets wanted and so could rarely be initially employed there

my point, exactly

ysss

2011-06-17, 10:50

I fail to see how that makes advertising less effective???

Oh it's VERY effective. If you've read the statistics of how ads exposure on younger audiences leave a lifetime of mental imprint and how it affects their limbic system, you'd think it's TOO effective.

I was illustrating how companies align their interests with the audience. (and media distribution channels,roduction houses, etc).

Don't think this is all about money, though. Because us FOSS crowd need to find better ways to align our interests with the masses,and it's not always about the $$$.

momcilo

2011-06-17, 10:51

don't agree w/ rotten iPotatos (iPhone?) being disruptive technologies.

In that case the following things where disruptive (some are not technologies):
- marketing (IMHO)
- packaging (box, bag, the feeling you have when leaving the store and everybody can see what you've bought)
- multi-touch did disrupt all existing products. It did not stop the sales, but it told avarage Joe who the new boss is.
- kinetic scrolling

misterc

2011-06-17, 10:54

[...]
Don't think this is all about money, though. Because us FOSS crowd need to find better ways to align our interests with the masses,and it's not always about the $$$.

so far, VERY few companies have been able to make money with / from OSS
redhat, maybe...
?

thus, no, indeed, OSS isn't about money
never was, never will be.
it is free, as in... free beer ;)

kanishou

2011-06-17, 10:54

i quote your quote

my point, exactly

Note "initially". This would fit the introduction of the iPhone. After all, it's just a plastic toy that can't do half of what Symbian does, right? It can't even do MMS or copy and paste, who would use such a crippled thing!

Not aimed at the same existing customers / the mainstream does not mean that disruptive technology is any less aimed at customers. That's the whole point of it.

misterc

2011-06-17, 10:56

misterc

2011-06-17, 11:00

an ad idea for the successor of the N900...

you don't need jailbreak (TM) to use it

¦-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

momcilo

2011-06-17, 11:03

are you describing rotten iPotatos' business plan?

didn't you forget something?
jailbreak? :cool:

which, btw, wasn't part of the plan, now, was it? :D

I did not, that was the first eco$i$tem. Enclosing/dis-powering of the user was intentional.

Sony also has the eco$i$tem.

ysss

2011-06-17, 11:11

so far, VERY few companies have been able to make money with / from OSS
redhat, maybe...
?

thus, no, indeed, OSS isn't about money
never was, never will be.
it is free, as in... free beer ;)

Google.
Palm. hp.
Cisco. Linksys.
(just about all network gears equipment maker)
Moto.
Lenovo.
IBM.

The companies mentioned above are just a very very small fraction of those who have made HUGE amount of money by selling products/services powered by opensource components. (And managed to align their interests, somewhat, with the FOSS movement still).

So, no.

There are some very very creative people out there.

misterc

2011-06-17, 11:26

I did not, that was the first eco$i$tem. Enclosing/dis-powering of the user was intentional.

Sony also has the eco$i$tem.

Question (!)
isn't Maemo.org (http://maemo.org/) NOKIA's ecosystem for the Maemo platform?
but it is open source, thus, no it doesn't bring any money directly.

benny1967

2011-06-17, 11:28

In that case the following things where disruptive (some are not technologies):
- marketing (IMHO)
- packaging (box, bag, the feeling you have when leaving the store and everybody can see what you've bought)
- multi-touch did disrupt all existing products. It did not stop the sales, but it told avarage Joe who the new boss is.
- kinetic scrolling

so we're talking about disruptive marketing, not disruptive technologies? yes. apple know how to do disrutpive marketing, i agree on that. (plus, they know how to reach their target group of consumers willing to give up dignity and control.)

now can we all go back and anticipate the N9 again? no matter if it'll be disruptive (i start hating this word even more than i already hate ecosystem), it'll at least stop the rumors for a while. :)

richie

2011-06-17, 11:36

no matter if it'll be disruptive (i start hating this word even more than i already hate ecosystem), it'll at least stop the rumors for a while. :)

It will have to do a lot better to beat 'ecosystem' in the hate stakes... :)

misterc

2011-06-17, 11:44

Google.
Palm. hp.
Cisco. Linksys.
(just about all network gears equipment maker)
Moto.
Lenovo.
IBM.

The companies mentioned above are just a very very small fraction of those who have made HUGE amount of money by selling products/services powered by opensource components. (And managed to align their interests, somewhat, with the FOSS movement still).

So, no.

There are some very very creative people out there.

i don't think Google (http://www.google.com/) has much to do w/ open source.
their advertisement technology certainly isn't, is it?
nor are the search crawlers technology.

IBM, open source?
i don't think you know what you are talking about.
just because they released some Linux / GNU drivers for some of their platforms doesn't make then "open source" i'm afraid.
IBM is foremost a HW compnay; HW, open source?

same goes for HP, now owner of Palm...

is your definition of open source company a company which (ab-)used open source, by any chance?

tissot

2011-06-17, 12:04

its not the blind attitude, its the proven fact and truth. I must say it is a brilliant gadget, but only a fool will take it after they've used symbian, maemo or android, power users know that iCrap has no use to them, unless you want a useless fart app to get yourself satisfied....

I must be fool then and all who knows how many hundreds of thousands of people who have switched from Symbian to iPhone. Good example is MR forums that is about power users only, it's 40% iOS and 40% of Android, rest goes for other OS's. It used to be 90% Symbian, those people, me included have switched from Symbian that got features but nobody uses them because you don't wanna use them. Perfect example being browser. I have actually used the OS's and been on the Symbian bandwagon from the very start.

I had GS for 6 months but it was buggy as hell and app store is a mess. By far the best part of Android is the great hacking community that without GS would have been in trash after month.
iTunes is absolute mess, but unfortunate truth is Apple got by far the best app store with much more quality apps than any other app store and fastest UI at least at the time of GS. Sure there is fart apps like on any other store, but you need to search for them, not like on Android where fart app can actually be on top 10 on the entertaiment category. Key word is that Apple got most quality apps than any other platform.
This is exactly the blindess that has brought Nokia to it's knees and will probably strike it down as well. Nothing wrong with not liking the OS, i did not think iOS example was "ready" before iPhone 4, but the attitude that you can't understand why somebody likes it is the wrong way to look at it.

I would not want anything more on the gadget world than polished SMARTPHONE and i hope either N9 or maybe GS2 can offer that. I'm huge fan of the idea that Harmattan would have many features integrated right away. Neither do i want Nokia to copy Apple i want it to be something new.

kanishou

2011-06-17, 12:04

The way to make money with Open Source is to incorporate it into products, which is why hardware makers are indeed a driving force behind Open Source development.

True "Open Source companies" generally sell their services and development resources to such hardware makers. Such as mine and quite a few others who develop software for Nokia, in addition to their internal software teams.

It is a common mistake to believe, that software companies are legit only if they make their money from selling or otherwise monetizing software.

The bottom line is, people and companies make money from Open Source software.

kanishou

2011-06-17, 12:12

I would not want anything more on the gadget world than polished SMARTPHONE and i hope either N9 or maybe GS2 can offer that.

If you want raw power and Android's large number of apps, go with the GS2. If you want elegance and something more unique... patience!

ysss

2011-06-17, 12:49

i don't think Google (http://www.google.com/) has much to do w/ open source.
their advertisement technology certainly isn't, is it?
nor are the search crawlers technology.

IBM, open source?
i don't think you know what you are talking about.
just because they released some Linux / GNU drivers for some of their platforms doesn't make then "open source" i'm afraid.
IBM is foremost a HW compnay; HW, open source?

same goes for HP, now owner of Palm...

is your definition of open source company a company which (ab-)used open source, by any chance?

Oh, my mistake. Judging from the introduction to OSS in their developerWorks portal, IBM might be a charity?

"IBM has committed to open source in a big way with contributions to more than 120 projects, including more than $1 billion in Linux® development."

Might want to spend all those time coloring and formatting your posts to researching and fact checking your arguments instead ;)

momcilo

2011-06-17, 13:13

Question (!)
isn't Maemo.org (http://maemo.org/) NOKIA's ecosystem for the Maemo platform?
but it is open source, thus, no it doesn't bring any money directly.

I've posted something similar, but I will repeat myself. When first Apple disruptor appeared there were many debates Apple vs 770(I've chosen the later). The Simple Joe choose Apple, techie got 770.

Then next iteration appeared, the Joe got Disruptor 2, techie got N800. Disruptor 1 continued to live (received support, updates, and apps). 770 got dumped, left to community tied to maemo distro so it died after some time.

The Disruptor 3 was the one that finally marked end-of-life for Disruptor 1.

The big thing about this is, that techie will not recommend and will avoid future Nokia products, Simple Sam will recommend Disruptor X and stick to Apple.

So each time maemo architect dumped a new device, and recreated the world, he lost certain fraction of the community (animals and plants that are part of eco$i$tem).

Until last year, Nokia never understood the term eco$i$tem, now they are trying to put it everywhere, even in the salad.

If they want to survive battle with Apple, Chinese, Samsung, HTC, LG, they better mobilize everybody they can.

Some will appeal to hardware, others design, my price is truly open platform.

pelago

2011-06-17, 13:24

redhat
Google
IBM
Are you going to do that for every company name?

Texrat

2011-06-17, 13:38

don't agree w/ rotten iPotatos (iPhone?) being disruptive technologies.
long before the 770 / N8x0 or the 7710 were pure touch screen phones (& except for the N810s, without kbds), thus the technology wasn't introduced by rotten iPotatos.
they just picked it up & put it in a nice looking device.
just like the MacIntosh interface wasn't "created" by Apple, back in the 80s.
Xerox @ PARC came up w/ the idea.

NOKIA, disruptive technologies?
yeah, maybe
where do you draw the line?
770? yes, still disruptive technology
N8x0s? same
77x0? probably wasn't supposed to be only a technological showcase, was it?
Communicators? disruptive technology? precursors of the smart devices?

EDIT: N900 ???

You're confusing innovative with disruptive.

A technology must be effective and reach critical mass to be disruptive.

bergie

2011-06-17, 14:11

You're confusing innovative with disruptive.

A technology must be effective and reach critical mass to be disruptive.

Yep. Innovation is about new things (or new combinations of old things). Disruption is is about the effect on the market.

So a product can be innovative without being disruptive, or it can be both innovative and disruptive. I don't think anything can be disruptive without being innovative (remember, even pricing can be innovation).

Jaffa

2011-06-17, 14:25

Google.
Palm. hp.
Cisco. Linksys.
(just about all network gears equipment maker)
Moto.
Lenovo.
IBM.

...and, to add a few more:

Nokia (kernel, Gtk+, Qt,gstreamer, ...).
Apple (WebKit, BSD).
MySQL
Sun, now Oracle (Java, OOo, Solaris, MySQL)

Let's look at the Linux kernel contributions (http://lwn.net/Articles/442229/) for a single version (2.6.39). In order of lines changed, the top 10 are:

Intel
Volunteers
Red Hat
Nokia
Texas Instruments
Unknown
Realsil Micro
IBM
Consultant
Broadcom

The companies mentioned above are just a very very small fraction of those who have made HUGE amount of money by selling products/services powered by opensource components. (And managed to align their interests, somewhat, with the FOSS movement still).

Absolutely.

mscion

2011-06-17, 14:36

You're confusing innovative with disruptive.

A technology must be effective and reach critical mass to be disruptive.

I think this point is valid but I wonder about the original choice of the word disruptive because, usually, I think of it as being used in the context of an action that creates a disturbance that interfers with getting things done like a disruptive student in classroom making it impossible for a lesson to be taught. Although this may be the case as, since the release of the teaser, it appears to me that less progress has been made in maemo due to all the distractions!

My guess is that the intention was to connotate that the new device represents such an advance that people will now change the way they do things and will not go back to the old ways. In this sense I would say the new device would have an impact on how we do things but it is not neccesarily disruptive.

Then I have to ask, what device to be demonstrated on June 21 is actually disruptive from Nokia's point of view? Although the word disruptive has been used with the n9 in past announcements, why would a "niche' device be considered disruptive? I would think, in Nokia's view that the disruptive device is the MS one as they have chosen this OS to put their energy into and hope to make an impact with.

Lomax

2011-06-17, 14:41

I don't care what anyone says about marketing strategies, disruptive products or how comfortable it feels to be one of the masses. The N900 was a game changing device for me, allowing me to easily do stuff on the road that _no_ other device as small as this can do (well apart from the Pandora (http://www.openpandora.org/) perhaps, but that's not a phone). And it does this without making me feel like I've been gang raped by a bunch of imperious marketing execs. My previous phones include BB Bold 9000, HTC Hero and iPhone 3 and they're all collecting dust here. Will I be getting the N9? You bet.

2012 update:

So I finally got my N9 and after bonding for a couple of weeks I can say it's everything I hoped it would be and more! Well done Nokia for coming up with another winner - this is by far the best smartphone currently on the market. Multitasking like a workstation, ultra precise haptic feedback, oodles of connectivity options, power tools for power users, envy inducing screen, sleek and sexy yet built like a tank, highly intuitive UI, brilliant copy & paste, real file manager, super fast browser, Ovi Maps, Wi-Fi hotspot, FOSS, SIP, OTG, NFC, OGG. I think I'm in Love!

Rauha

2011-06-17, 14:49

i don't think Google (http://www.google.com/) has much to do w/ open source.
their advertisement technology certainly isn't, is it?
nor are the search crawlers technology.

Google would still be a garage startup without open source. That small startup would never have been able to afford to build the required server farms for Google Search, if it had had to pay for commercial license for all those machines. Arguably, the biggest reason for Google taking over the search market wasn't their superior search algorithms, but being one of the first companies to truly take advantage of Linux servers on massive scale.

Oh and then there's that Google OS based on open source code. It's called Robot or something like that.

bergie

2011-06-17, 14:50

The N900 was a game changing device for me, allowing me to easily do stuff on the road that _no_ other device as small as this can do

Agreed, the N900 is an amazing device. Best integrated communications suite I've seen in a phone, very nice browser, camera, FM transmitter.

And open enough that I can do anything I could do on my computer with it, though obviously the small screen and keyboard make many of those activities unergonomic. I've fixed servers from it via SSH, and I've committed code to Git repositories. There are not many mobile devices matching that.

No wonder N900 is still the most popular phone in many geek events, despite being quite old as far as smartphones go.

I'm really happy to see both the Community SSU and MeeGo Community Edition giving it more life.

Texrat

2011-06-17, 14:50

I think this point is valid but I wonder about the original choice of the word disruptive because, usually, I think of it as being used in the context of an action that creates a disturbance that interfers with getting things done like a disruptive student in classroom making it impossible for a lesson to be taught. Although this may be the case as, since the release of the teaser, it appears to me that less progress has been made in maemo due to all the distractions!

It's all about context. ;)

A disruptive advent is good for the one causing the disruption, but bad for everyone else... usually. So I think it's a good term. Just have to consider perspectives.

sevla

2011-06-17, 14:57

momcilo

2011-06-17, 15:04

It's all about context. ;)

A disruptive advent is good for the one causing the disruption, but bad for everyone else... usually. So I think it's a good term. Just have to consider perspectives.

Quite like that:
- Fast English ships vs large and slow Spanish Armada.
- Gun powder & rifles vs knights.
- Alcohol, disease & rifles vs Indians.
- Nuclear weapons.
- Quantum computer against existing cryptography (still to be proven)

Usually it is applied without mercy.

mscion

2011-06-17, 15:12

It's all about context. ;)

A disruptive advent is good for the one causing the disruption, but bad for everyone else... usually. So I think it's a good term. Just have to consider perspectives.

Ok with me. A disruptor can shake things up and possibly change things for good and, heck, if they come out ahead all the better! So, who is behind this disruption? Elop?

BigBadGuber!

2011-06-17, 15:17

who cares for apple, it sucks to the core, the most mediocre company and devices ive ever seen, yet i appreciate the standards they set but its all eye candy and being slaved, you get just superior touch and you get deprived off all other major features , imho iCrap is dumb as compared to s40 feature phones ;)

As opposed Nokia crap that cant even figure out FONTS on its phones.......

erendorn

2011-06-17, 15:20

"Disruptive" is such a vague concept.
To me, I would apply the word more on stuff like that:
"D-pad interface" => "stylus interface" => "touch interface" (hey MS rewrited an entire OS to go from 2 to 3)
"gamepad gaming" => "gesture gaming"
"DVD" => "streaming" (whereas "DVD" => "Blue Ray" isn't one)

but not necessarily on a single device.

Texrat

2011-06-17, 15:28

NvyUs

2011-06-17, 15:29

the Wiii was disruptive (I hate it) which led to competitors coming up with there motion gesture alternatives.
on another note the Product/tech does not even need to be very successful, if it leads to rivals rushing out to do a similar thing whether it be better or worse then it as been disruptive.

Texrat

2011-06-17, 15:30

the Wiii was disruptive (I hate it) which led to competitors coming up with there motion gesture alternatives.
on another note the Product with does not even need to be very successful if it leads to rivals rushing out to do a similar thing whether its better or worse then it as been disruptive.

I daresay the Wii led to the Kinect.

Alee

2011-06-17, 15:31

As opposed Nokia crap that cant even figure out FONTS on its phones.......

dude !! when you are loving the openness and powerful multitasking..eff that sh*t coz you can do whatever you want with your NOKIA ;)
and the good thing you know, the company doesnt patches this openness coz it understands that we need, alter and change as much as to our taste and its not about Nokia...anyone who brings power and openness to us on our side and others can KMA specially the forbidden fruit ;)

erendorn

2011-06-17, 15:33

the Wiii was disruptive (I hate it) which led to competitors coming up with there motion gesture alternatives.

Yet nothing else in the wii is different from the NGC, so I would really say that gesture gaming is the disruptive item. The wii is incidently the first device to implement it.

Edit:
I was thinking of the wiimote and not the kinect when I said "gesture gaming".

Texrat

2011-06-17, 15:38

Yet nothing else in the wii is different from the NGC, so I would really say that gesture gaming is the disruptive item. The wii is incidently the first device to implement it.

Edit:
I was thinking of the wiimote and not the kinect when I said "gesture gaming".

Feh. Nitpicking IMO. It isn't so much about the feature as it is the effective implementation, ie, the whole package.

As noted, Nokia has released innovative tech that SHOULD have caused disruption, but their execution was too poor. Apple on the other hand pulled together existing tech and packaged it into a single device that offered a highly compelling user experience. Result: market disruption.

BigBadGuber!

2011-06-17, 15:38

dude !! when you are loving the openness and powerful multitasking..eff that sh*t coz you can do whatever you want with your NOKIA ;)
and the good thing you know, the company doesnt patches this openness coz it understands that we need, alter and change as much as to our taste and its not about Nokia...anyone who brings power and openness to us on our side and others can KMA specially the forbidden fruit ;)

Great for the minority, but majority want "idiot" proof phone. iPHONE crap delivers in that department

SD69

2011-06-17, 15:53

"Disruptive" is such a vague concept.
To me, I would apply the word more on stuff like that:
"D-pad interface" => "stylus interface" => "touch interface" (hey MS rewrited an entire OS to go from 2 to 3)

hey Nokia may also have done a lot of rewriting to go from 2 to 3 too. We'll know for sure when the Harmattan device is announced.
I suspect it will need to have something extra like haptics to be considered disruptive

bhairav

2011-06-17, 15:54

btw anybody knows why Rich Green is planning to leave Nokia
I mean Inside sources!!!?;) ;)

NvyUs

2011-06-17, 15:56

btw anybody knows why Rich Green is planning to leave Nokia
I mean Inside sources!!!?;) ;)

to stick with the Theme and add a bit Truth too, he was disruptive

sevla

2011-06-17, 16:10

http://i.imgur.com/NDSmT.jpg
Not sure if i posted this here before.. But I think it's pretty safe to say that the rm680, which i assume to be the dev device, will be 1ghz + 512mb device.

shady

2011-06-17, 16:16

I daresay the Wii led to the Kinect.

actually, you shouldnt need to dare, it is EXACTLY why we have the Kinect, proof:

Johnny Chung Lee CMU Student:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

made this video, MS saw it and hired him to develop the kinect.

so yea.

sevla, thanks for the info, it has been reported in this bloathread ..

erendorn

2011-06-17, 16:21

to stick with the Theme and add a bit Truth too, he was disruptive

I couldn't resist.

LTman

2011-06-17, 16:29

we need a harmattan tablet to go with thing (both running same software look the same, same ui etc etc ) cause maybe if we achieve an iphone /ipad phone and its big bro it would probaly sell better
and it would be
....
wait for it
.......

.....
wait for it
.......
disruptive

stlpaul

2011-06-17, 16:34

Great for the minority, but majority want "idiot" proof phone. iPHONE crap delivers in that department

I know a lot of idiots who have constant problems with their iphones, but they just accept it as a fact of life.

Alee

2011-06-17, 17:02

Great for the minority, but majority want "idiot" proof phone. iPHONE crap delivers in that department

if you think that the market of US of A is the thing, you're a fool my friend....coz the iCrap is dumber by the nokia x1-01 itself ;)
and by the way symbian is still kicking around on iCrap coz people who have senses know that iCrap cant be of any use to them..
and by the word sense...there more to come from Nokia..."Our next sense"

BigBadGuber!

2011-06-17, 17:05

I know a lot of idiots who have constant problems with their iphones, but they just accept it as a fact of life.

What kind of problems?

BigBadGuber!

2011-06-17, 17:17

if you think that the market of US of A is the thing, you're a fool my friend....coz the iCrap is dumber by the nokia x1-01 itself ;)
and by the way symbian is still kicking around on iCrap coz people who have senses know that iCrap cant be of any use to them..
and by the word sense...there more to come from Nokia..."Our next sense"

Its the most competitive market. What survives in USA, everyone else wants

erendorn

2011-06-17, 17:18

What kind of problems?

I have heard things like "I lost my contacts while charging to another pc" or "I need an app to download a pdf from the internet" that could be considered as "problems".

uvatbc

2011-06-17, 17:32

Its the most competitive market. What survives in USA, everyone else wants

I'm not sure that's true: While the US is an extremely large market, it isn't the leading cellphone market by a long shot. Asia, Europe and Japan are where most mobiles are sold and where the most innovative designs are introduced.
Look at the iphone for example: It's influence was almost ENTIRELY restricted to the North American market. Even after it was jailbroken and leaked out of the US, it has not captured the market.

I believe the iPhone's major problem was Apple's exclusive tie up with ATT. Add to that: the requirement of iTunes, the walled garden nature of the device, the unremovable battery, the "you're holding it wrong" attitude and the general childishness of it's userbase, the legal restrictiveness of the iPhones SDK ... I could go on and on.

All this makes me NOT want to touch it even with a ten foot long pole.
YMMV.

Edit: I almost forgot Steve Jobs and his marketing folk: The reality distortion field is awe inspiring. I wish Nokia had that.

Soppa

2011-06-17, 17:36

Well, hopefully this is not old news. My RSS feed reports that it's confirmed that Nokia will unveil some new models on the 21st at the Nokia Connection event.

Stephen Elop: ”He will set the stage for a number of exciting Nokia product and service launches.”

Mary McDowell: ”Mary McDowell will cover Nokia’s strategy around Mobile Phones, including the global launch of brand new mobile devices”

Finnish media has been invited to Espoo on the same day to see what it's all about. They also reminded that the website for the event has been opened:

http://www.nokiaconnection.net/index.php

source:

http://plaza.fi/muropaketti/taskumuro/ (site in Finnish, sorry)

ericsson

2011-06-17, 17:42

tissot

2011-06-17, 17:46

I'm not sure that's true: While the US is an extremely large market, it isn't the leading cellphone market by a long shot. Asia, Europe and Japan are where most mobiles are sold and where the most innovative designs are introduced.

Have you actually used any Japanese phones? They got nice screens and camera, that is all.

Imo the hotspots are in USA, Korea and Scandinavia that got still most of the companies building the networks around globe, but relevance as phone manufacturers and trend setters is nothing like it was in 2000-2007.
People over at Finland where using phones more than anybody else in the globe back in 2006, now they are behind UK. Mostly because of Symbian still having much larger market share than anywhere else.

ericsson

2011-06-17, 17:55

Its the most competitive market. What survives in USA, everyone else wants

Sure, like RIM and Palm and Motorola :D Not many of those got shipped outside the american continent. The only phone worth while from the US (for some people for some weird reasons) is the iPhone. But right now the market for iPhones is saturated, Android is taking over, iPhones are passe' they are not fashionable any more except that journalists love them.

But soon some real American OS is coming from Microsoft, together with some real Finnish HW. Can't wait, got to have one of those, but please Nokia make a communicator version also.

mikecomputing

2011-06-17, 18:10

Sure, like RIM and Palm and Motorola :D Not many of those got shipped outside the american continent. The only phone worth while from the US (for some people for some weird reasons) is the iPhone. But right now the market for iPhones is saturated, Android is taking over, iPhones are passe' they are not fashionable any more except that journalists love them.

But soon some real American OS is coming from Microsoft, together with some real Finnish HW. Can't wait, got to have one of those, but please Nokia make a communicator version also.

"real american OS" ROTFL Microsoft is the real copy&paste company

momcilo

2011-06-17, 18:13

http://i.imgur.com/NDSmT.jpg
Not sure if i posted this here before.. But I think it's pretty safe to say that the rm680, which i assume to be the dev device, will be 1ghz + 512mb device.

Is there any lsmod.jpg from where this one came?

Some of us would love to see which drivers open-sourced and closed-sourced drivers are running?

sevla

2011-06-17, 18:15

Is there any lsmod.jpg from where this one came?

Some of us would love to see which drivers open-sourced and closed-sourced drivers are running?

Someone already posted the libs in the harmattan build.. It's somewhere in this thread i believe.

ericsson

2011-06-17, 18:24

"real american OS" ROTFL Microsoft is the real copy&paste company

As I said, real American :D

ericsson

2011-06-17, 18:31

It is Like Apple. Copy everything, say you invented everything yourself, sue everybody for using "your" inventions. The snag is that courts never believe in your lies, even though you have repeated them so many times that you believe them yourself. "Oh boy, have we patented this" LOL :D

That IS real American.

mscion

2011-06-17, 18:40

to stick with the Theme and add a bit Truth too, he was disruptive

Just a brief follow up on a theme. I was wondering if a good name for the n9/n950/rm-680 could be "the disruptor" To me it sounds better than the previously suggested "ion" which doesn't sound, well, quite disruptive enough. It also fits in nicely with the "burning platform" motif to maintain structural unity and continuity in these threads. Other disruptive suggestions are welcome...

Just as a reminder

dis·rupt (ds-rpt)
tr.v. dis·rupt·ed, dis·rupt·ing, dis·rupts
1. To throw into confusion or disorder: Protesters disrupted the candidate's speech.
2. To interrupt or impede the progress, movement, or procedure of: Our efforts in the garden were disrupted by an early frost.
3. To break or burst; rupture.
[Latin disrumpere, disrupt-, to break apart : dis-, dis- + rumpere, to break apart; see reup- in Indo-European roots.]

Even better yet...

From weapons in Star Trek:

Disruptors are employed by several alien species in this series, including Romulans, Klingons, Breen, Cardassians, Iridians and Orions in their personal and military small arms as well as being mounted as cannon, emitters, turrets, and banks. Only the first three are known to have type-3 disruptors, the most advanced developed so far, by the 24th century. Disruptors cause damage by exciting the molecular bonds of targets. According to Last Unicorn's Star Trek: The Next Generation Roleplaying Game, disruptors are considered less 'elegant' than phaser-based weapons; their effects there are described as thermal shock and blunt force, as opposed to the 'rapid nadion effect'

zlatokosi

2011-06-17, 18:43

Average costumer doesn't give a crap about open source or not, as long as "it just works" ;)
And i hope N9 IS for average users, because else there is no future for maemo...

N9Us,

by that logic we should have abolished the telephone (remember that device?) back in the 30's, because I can assure you my grandmother (back then in her average user age of 25) was flabbergasted (**** scared, actually) at a device that you could talk into and hear a response from thousands of miles away....

ysss

2011-06-17, 18:44

Just a brief follow up on a theme. I was wondering if a good name for the n9/n950/rm-680 could be "the disruptor" To me it sounds better than the previously suggested "ion" which doesn't sound, well, quite disruptive enough.

Even slightly mature geeks would probably be embarrassed to have a 'serious' phone with the name of 'the disruptor' :D

It also fits in nicely with the "burning platform" motif to maintain structural unity and continuity in these threads. Other disruptive suggestions are welcome...

In a busy, loud and saturated market... I'd go with the codename 'shhh.'

(and if it fails, people will just call it "Oh, shhh---...").

N9Us,

by that logic we should have abolished the telephone (remember that device?) back in the 30's, because I can assure you my grandmother (back then in her average user age of 25) was flabbergasted (**** scared, actually) at a device that you could talk into and hear a response from thousands of miles away....

You may need to buy a ticket to get yourself back into the realms of what he's talking about. Missed his point by a continent.

Daneel

2011-06-17, 18:48

I have spent a half a year in Japan and they have a bunch of good android devices we haven't seen.
The only drawback is lots of them don't have WIFI because they want you to use 3G, even though they are armed with decent hardware.

http://mb.softbank.jp/en/products/sharp/005sh.html

Have you actually used any Japanese phones? They got nice screens and camera, that is all.

Dave999

2011-06-17, 18:50

momcilo

2011-06-17, 18:53

Even slightly mature geeks would probably be embarrassed to have a 'serious' phone with the name of 'the disruptor' :D

In a busy, loud and saturated market... I'd go with the codename 'shhh.'

(and if it fails, people will just call it "Oh, shhh---...").

You may need to buy a ticket to get yourself back into the realms of what he's talking about. Missed his point by a continent.

You could have something called ION DISRUPTOR. :D

But people have noticed that there is something common to all disruptions in past century?

The side that owned disrupting technology advantage, made sure opponents never learned in advance before the actual deployment.

zlatokosi

2011-06-17, 19:04

You may need to buy a ticket to get yourself back into the realms of what he's talking about. Missed his point by a continent.

I don't think I missed his point, I just don't agree with it. It's a semantic question of waiting for the masses to approve (as opposed to adopt) technology.

Honestly, I just don't believe in mass psychology.

Most people are scared of new, innovative technology - and that is pretty much a fact.

uppercase

2011-06-17, 19:15

Maybe the new product is a megaphone, those things are very disrupting. Also fits well on a burnning platform.
mmm.....it all fits now:
MeeGo phone = MeGa phone
so clever this elop guy

ysss

2011-06-17, 19:22

I don't think I missed his point, I just don't agree with it. It's a semantic question of waiting for the masses to approve (as opposed to adopt) technology.

Honestly, I just don't believe in mass psychology.

Most people are scared of new, innovative technology - and that is pretty much a fact.

"Average costumer doesn't give a crap about open source or not, as long as "it just works""

The first phone was simple and they just worked. There were no buttons to push, no operators to contend with. Just pick up the phone and speak.

It was a simple demonstration of what was possible, and I bet it sparked the imagination of the public.

I doubt they were thinking of who owned the patents, who would be doing the investment of the infrastructure, privacy issues and so forth. Let alone licensing issues behind the technology.

mikecomputing

2011-06-17, 19:24

The nokia norwegien trolls future disruption is this:

http://labs.qt.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Qt5.pdf

The opensource model :D

HaugMedia

2011-06-17, 19:29

The nokia norwegien trolls future disruption is this:

http://labs.qt.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Qt5.pdf

We are norwegians, not norwegiens :p
People so peaceful our police don't carry guns, and if you kill someone you get free education. And that is not a joke.

momcilo

2011-06-17, 19:37

The nokia norwegien trolls future disruption is this:

http://labs.qt.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Qt5.pdf

The opensource model :D

You made a slight mistake, its not an open source model. That existed for a long time. ;)

It is the community based open source model. :cool:

shmerl

2011-06-17, 19:42

Do you care about the brand\detail\spec of a kitchen appliance you may have to buy/rent?
If it'll run Meego, I'll care ;)

Andrew_b

2011-06-17, 19:48

uppercase

2011-06-17, 19:49

We are norwegians, not norwegiens :p
People so peaceful our police don't carry guns, and if you kill someone you get free education. And that is not a joke.

In most countries you can get free education without killing anyone.

larux

2011-06-17, 19:56

Jussi Mäkinen aka Luovanto (twitter) tweeted today this:
luovanto Jussi Mäkinen
Gettin' ready for #Singapore nightless nights and supercharged days. #nokiacnxn marina bay sands pool anyone?
35 minutes ago Favorite Undo Retweet Reply

Luovanto is known to be maemo-meego guy.. SO, NOW it's sure that there will be some maemo-meego actions.. GREAT!
:D:D:D:D

paweltrzpis

2011-06-17, 19:58

I don't think I can recall such anticipation since the release of the camera API for the N900. Nokia really got us going with the lead up to that one...

Ever the fool, I remain hopeful and excited for Tusday.

you are 100% right with this one, ill be definitelly waititng until 2am(i think) on Tue morning UK time just to find out what disruption has been revealed..and i hope it is tactile feedback..

shmerl

2011-06-17, 20:00

i don't think Google (http://www.google.com/) has much to do w/ open source.
their advertisement technology certainly isn't, is it?
nor are the search crawlers technology.
Google uses open source / free software as well closed source technologies for business, but the difference lies in the general attitude. Google can be rightfully described as open source friendly company, while MS and Apple as open source hostile (even though Apple contributed to some open source projects). And Google's attitude to patent issues in regards to open source software is also noticeable (take Hadoop and etc.).

In practice Google also released way more technologies as open source, than MS and Apple together. Google's backing of WebM vs backing of H.264 by MS and Apple is a good example. It doesn't mean that Google is purely open source oriented, but the difference is still apparent.